Thunder Tiger Trainer 40 project
12-01-2014, 10:40 AM
#151
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: SorrentoBritish Columbia, CANADA
Posts: 2,018
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Make sure you don't have too much fuel in your engine preventing it from turning over . If it is flooded with fuel you can seriously damage the engine trying to turn it over with an electric starter . If I suspect mine is flooded I will pull my plug and spin it over . That will clear the extra fuel out with out hurting anything . There are other ways to do it and probably cleaner ways that don't spray the extra fuel all over but this way works . Make sure your throttle is closed when you are fueling up , Make sure your tank is not too high .and make sure you have a pressure relief in your tank when you are fueling up . Most important ,if you suspect your engine is flooded do not try to spin it with the starter. You can bend a rod very easily . Its called Hydro lock . Clear the flood first ..
12-01-2014, 08:09 PM
#152
Make sure you don't have too much fuel in your engine preventing it from turning over . If it is flooded with fuel you can seriously damage the engine trying to turn it over with an electric starter . If I suspect mine is flooded I will pull my plug and spin it over . That will clear the extra fuel out with out hurting anything . There are other ways to do it and probably cleaner ways that don't spray the extra fuel all over but this way works . Make sure your throttle is closed when you are fueling up , Make sure your tank is not too high .and make sure you have a pressure relief in your tank when you are fueling up . Most important ,if you suspect your engine is flooded do not try to spin it with the starter. You can bend a rod very easily . Its called Hydro lock . Clear the flood first ..
12-06-2014, 04:12 PM
#153
Another day at the field ended in disappointment. The starter just can't spin the engine. I charged the starter battery all of last night. I know it is not flooded because I took the glow plug out and spun it and no fuel shoots out. I am really at a loss here.
Last edited by AllModesR/C; 12-06-2014 at 06:01 PM.
12-06-2014, 05:34 PM
#154
My Feedback: (-1)
Hand flipping also works very well. If your afraid of getting bit then a chicken stick works great too. Hand starting is what we did before we had electric starters.
12-06-2014, 06:12 PM
#157
Yes, it will spin the engine no problem with the glow plug removed. As soon as I put the glow plug in and the engine has compression it can't spin it past the compression point. The battery is probably about 5 years old. I have another dry cell motorcycle battery that I hooked up to the starter and I have the same issue. I even tried another starter and the same problem. However, this morning before heading out to the field I tried starting the engine at my house and it was able to turn it. But the engine was at room temperature. Seems as soon as I head out into the cold the engine becomes more difficult for the starter to spin. Almost like the cold temps make the head shrink slightly which causes more resistance perhaps?
Last edited by AllModesR/C; 12-14-2014 at 10:43 AM.
12-06-2014, 06:41 PM
#158
Well today wasn't too bad in the Chicagoland area but still, temps in the 30's greatly has an affect on your battery's ability. So I'm wondering if just the temps are hindering you? I know when I was out about 3 weeks ago in 40 degree weather, I was starting to see those promblems creeping in. What is your Ah rating for the battery? Try starting it at home before you even go out.
12-06-2014, 08:13 PM
#159
Well today wasn't too bad in the Chicagoland area but still, temps in the 30's greatly has an affect on your battery's ability. So I'm wondering if just the temps are hindering you? I know when I was out about 3 weeks ago in 40 degree weather, I was starting to see those promblems creeping in. What is your Ah rating for the battery? Try starting it at home before you even go out.
12-06-2014, 08:21 PM
#160
I use a chicken stick, but a good leather glove works ok too. Just get the prop right up to compression and give it a really smart flip. If conditions (choked and fuel up to the carb) are good you should be able to start it. My Magnum XLS .15 starts easily this way. I like to have my prop at one o clock at the start of compression so that I can just flip over the top smartly. Make sure your glow starting battery is hot also. As temps go down, the harder it gets. The warmer you can keep things the better.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXFU02&P=7
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXFU02&P=7
Last edited by Tom Nied; 12-06-2014 at 08:28 PM. Reason: added material
12-06-2014, 10:10 PM
#161
My Feedback: (17)
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Hartland,
WI
Posts: 277
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On your engine starting issue ...
How do you fill the tank? Do you pull the line off the engine and fill on that pulled line? Or is there a separate connection to fill from, that you plug up later? Or ... is there a fancy "fueler" between the tank and the engine?
The reason I ask these questions is that if the engine suction line is attached to the engine while you are fueling, and the tank is high, then it is possible to fill the crankcase of the engine before the tank gets completely filled. However, if you have only two lines coming off the tank, and you use the one that goes to the engine to fill with, then this is not the problem with possible flooding of your engine.
Just because fuel does not come out the glow plug hole when the engine is turned over, with the plug out, does not mean that the engine was not flooded. The lower part of the engine could still have quite a bit of fuel in it even after doing that test.
When the starter will not turn the engine over, have you tried removing the plug igniter and turning the prop over by hand? If it is pretty hard to do that, stop doing it because the engine is flooded and you need to get the fuel out of it first. Part of my start sequence is to verify the plug igniter is off, grab a prop blade and turn the engine by hand to ensure the cylinder is clear and the spinner will not be spinning a locked up engine. Out of long habit , I'll probably then flip it a couple of times as we did in the Era of No Starters and Castor Is King.
If you cannot pull the engine through easily, then lift the plane, roll it so that the engine exhaust port is pointed down, and rotate the prop until it gets easy to turn. Then raise the nose so that it is vertical, and you should probably see fuel drain out of the muffler.
The experiments where you were able to start the engine in the van and at home MIGHT simply be because you moved the plane around and happened to drain the fuel from a flooded engine.
All the above is not relevant if you have a two line fuel tank and you pull the engine line to fill.
How do you fill the tank? Do you pull the line off the engine and fill on that pulled line? Or is there a separate connection to fill from, that you plug up later? Or ... is there a fancy "fueler" between the tank and the engine?
The reason I ask these questions is that if the engine suction line is attached to the engine while you are fueling, and the tank is high, then it is possible to fill the crankcase of the engine before the tank gets completely filled. However, if you have only two lines coming off the tank, and you use the one that goes to the engine to fill with, then this is not the problem with possible flooding of your engine.
Just because fuel does not come out the glow plug hole when the engine is turned over, with the plug out, does not mean that the engine was not flooded. The lower part of the engine could still have quite a bit of fuel in it even after doing that test.
When the starter will not turn the engine over, have you tried removing the plug igniter and turning the prop over by hand? If it is pretty hard to do that, stop doing it because the engine is flooded and you need to get the fuel out of it first. Part of my start sequence is to verify the plug igniter is off, grab a prop blade and turn the engine by hand to ensure the cylinder is clear and the spinner will not be spinning a locked up engine. Out of long habit , I'll probably then flip it a couple of times as we did in the Era of No Starters and Castor Is King.
If you cannot pull the engine through easily, then lift the plane, roll it so that the engine exhaust port is pointed down, and rotate the prop until it gets easy to turn. Then raise the nose so that it is vertical, and you should probably see fuel drain out of the muffler.
The experiments where you were able to start the engine in the van and at home MIGHT simply be because you moved the plane around and happened to drain the fuel from a flooded engine.
All the above is not relevant if you have a two line fuel tank and you pull the engine line to fill.
12-07-2014, 10:28 AM
#163
My Feedback: (-1)
What the heck is a suction line?? The main line goes to the carb and the pressure line is from the muffler. If you leave the main line connected and try to fill the tank through the pressure line fuel won't go into the tank. You remove both lines and fill and drain from the main line.
You really need an instructor to teach you how to operate your plane and equipment, your having way too much trouble with the basics. An instructor could get you going with both plane and engine in about 10 minutes but it has to be a hands on deal. Engines run a bit different in the cold but not a huge amount, just a bit harder to start. Unless you have a battery that is really down on power or a completely worn out starter there shouldn't be any problem rolling over your engine.
Get a real instructor to teach you how to do things hands on. I teach my students how to start and tune an engine in the morning and by the end of the day they have it figured out. Then it just takes them a little time to be comfortable doing it by themselves.
You really need an instructor to teach you how to operate your plane and equipment, your having way too much trouble with the basics. An instructor could get you going with both plane and engine in about 10 minutes but it has to be a hands on deal. Engines run a bit different in the cold but not a huge amount, just a bit harder to start. Unless you have a battery that is really down on power or a completely worn out starter there shouldn't be any problem rolling over your engine.
Get a real instructor to teach you how to do things hands on. I teach my students how to start and tune an engine in the morning and by the end of the day they have it figured out. Then it just takes them a little time to be comfortable doing it by themselves.
12-07-2014, 01:04 PM
#164
I though it was called a suction line because it sucks fuel from the tank. This isn't my first rodeo with nitro engines having had cars and boats in the past. Never have I had this much starting difficulties though. Next Saturday my club is having an event at the field so I will go and hopefully get some much needed help there.
Last edited by AllModesR/C; 12-08-2014 at 06:12 AM.
12-08-2014, 05:43 AM
#165
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Winnipeg,
MB, CANADA
Posts: 751
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi AllModes, it sure sounds like your batteries are hootched, you said you tried another starter was it with the same battery or someone elses battery, can you try the starter off of your car battery without taking it out?. I find that hand starting a cold engine very hard to do so I would stick to using an electric. Make sure there is not a bunch of afterrun oil in your motor getting thick in the cold and if you can warm up your engine before starting it.
Good luck,
Calvi.
Good luck,
Calvi.
12-14-2014, 10:41 AM
#166
I went to the field yesterday and the engine started no problem. However it was in the low 40's here in Chicago. So I am convinced cold temps below 35 f or so make this motor hard to turn over.
On another note, I bent the front landing gear a bit on a rough landing. Should I attempt to bend it back into shape or just buy a new one?
On another note, I bent the front landing gear a bit on a rough landing. Should I attempt to bend it back into shape or just buy a new one?
Last edited by AllModesR/C; 12-14-2014 at 10:47 AM.
12-14-2014, 01:00 PM
#168
My Feedback: (-1)
Once in the 30s and below they are a bit harder to roll over but a good starter with a good battery shouldn't have any problems spinning an engine. The main thing I notice is they need to warm up a bit before I take off. I let them run at about 4K rpm for about a minute then they are fine the rest of the day. If it's a new engine after it has been run in it will also be easier to roll over.
From our summer 110 degree weather to our 20 degree winters the high speed needle only needs to be moved about 4 clicks to compensate for the temp difference. Other then that I almost never touch the adjustments. I watch other guys twisting the needles after every flight? If it ran good to begin with then nothing should have changed.
From our summer 110 degree weather to our 20 degree winters the high speed needle only needs to be moved about 4 clicks to compensate for the temp difference. Other then that I almost never touch the adjustments. I watch other guys twisting the needles after every flight? If it ran good to begin with then nothing should have changed.
12-14-2014, 05:47 PM
#169
If the nose gear is just bent a little, I have just grasped the engine very securely (because it is mounted to the firewall) and just pulled on the gear forward to bring it back to it's original shape. Main gear, same thing but use a small level so that you can see the plane is level (not nose up or down). Otherwise removiing and straightening is also an option. Done both. But this is common with planes with wire landing gear. Don't sweat it, just bend it back. After awhile, you know just how must to pull on it to bring it back.
12-14-2014, 06:10 PM
#170
If the nose gear is just bent a little, I have just grasped the engine very securely (because it is mounted to the firewall) and just pulled on the gear forward to bring it back to it's original shape. Main gear, same thing but use a small level so that you can see the plane is level (not nose up or down). Otherwise removiing and straightening is also an option. Done both. But this is common with planes with wire landing gear. Don't sweat it, just bend it back. After awhile, you know just how must to pull on it to bring it back.
12-14-2014, 06:54 PM
#173
A vise is an essential tool, you really need one. Nothing special, but something that will aid especially in these situations. http://www.menards.com/main/tools-ha...293-c-9135.htm
12-14-2014, 09:06 PM
#174
My Feedback: (-1)
Harbor Freight is your friend. With a good vise and a selection of piano wire, gear legs are easy to make. Most any hobby shop has nose gear. I only have one trike geared plane but for some reason I have several of the store bought nose gears on hand? Over time things just happen.
