donnyman

Take a close look at this picture.........Recognize anything there/ got a MCcoy 35 red head and baby spitfire too.

Gwhawg

Baby spitfire was the high priced one the spitzy was the same engine with the GS tank underneath It did strt and run but it took a lot of prop flipping and I did manage to fly with it. This was in the late 1940 s. As I got older I bought a Ohllosen and Rice 29. Attached to a freshman 29 controlline airplane. This flew much better but the engine was still hard to start. Didn't fly much in the mid fifties. Spent most of my time chasing girls. By the early 60s I was married, back into flying and have been there ever since when I first got into RC I liked the Debolt models. DEMCO. Then mostly Carl Goldberg. Thanks for the pictures

donnyman

From Telemaster.....................This is an excellent thread Donny! I go to it first thing every morning to see who else from the "Stick and Tissue Brigade" has posted!

Thank you Sir! You all make it so special! ........... I do the same. My wife always wants to know how many people are on line. I am really enjoying this!

Hossfly

Mr. Gibson, since you are in the Houston area and I live just south-east of New Caney, north side Houston, close to the intersection of 1485 and 2100, maybe we could find some time to get together. I have some old radios and I think that old Kraft may be somewhere but at this time I don't know. If you like to tinker with them they could be had just for a friendly time talking. Wx permitting and notice to mow the back yard, we could even circle a Ring Master around, if the back is reasonably dry, Also I am only about 20 minutes, mostly country roads, to Jetero RC Field. Check it out on www.jetero.com. Nice facility for having fun.
I am not much with "keeping up with the Joneses" so I have a lot of old stuff and some airplanes that well need a going over. In addition the Barn is not always the neatest place!
Think about it sometime if you wish to visit. 281-399-5627 Leave message. Will then send email and cell phone.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

It would seem that RC was pretty unreasonably expensive until the early 80's. It is actually really cheap now. One of the things that is nice today is how small you can go, for a reasonable price.

crankpin

My Feedback: (15)

This thread has lot of posts. When we were kids, our job on Sunday, was to go fetch the free flight models that our uncles and their friends would fly in a field full of cow pies. These were poly-diehedral, (is that correct?) with names like SpearHead, Buzzard Bombshell, etc. Growing up, learn on UC. Jim Walkers FireBaby with an OK Cub .049, a pint of K&B 1000 fuel, treat it like gold. It had a balloon tank, black fuel line. Other engines, remember the Infant ?
It had an aluminum prop, bend your own pitch. Yes, things are different now, but it was fun. We would fly Puddle Jumpers and RingMasters. I stuck with I think the name, Zilch, Mini-Zilch ? Designed by Zaik or George Aldrich.

Crank

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

I had an old CL friend that swore by the power of the "Holland Hornet". It would tell me numbers that were comparable to a modern Cox TD. Does anyone have experience with this engine? I am gonna guess they are very rare now.

Greybeard1

Buzzard Bombshell, I knew the designer, Joe Konefes, and if anyone has ever done CO2 power, the skill of Joe was demonstrated when he built a 54 inch Bombshell with a Telco TurboTank for power. Flew like a dream, although a very slow dream. He could build light.

Rich.

Gwhawg

Back in the 60s I was flying with controlaire 10 channel reeds Worked very good. Sometime in the late 60s I Saw my first proportional system , think it was called. Space control an analog system for around $800. Nothing I could afford. I did buy a citizen ship 3 channel proportional system. Then I constructed a four channel digitrio from RCM plans used that for several years then prices were coming down and I bought my first good system. Futaba 5 channel had that for many years.


If I could find one it would be fun to try a reed system once again to see if I could still fly reeds.

GallopingGhostler

That's why I started with single channel RC, coincidently with the same 1962 MAN Ken Willard Schoolboy.

http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=1030



One I built back in Fall 1972 was the Top Flite kit, which was the clipped wing version. Instead of a built up ribbed wing, it was 1/20th in. sheet balsa covered. No covering material required, I finished it with a couple coats clear dope with orange dope trim.

Flew it with a Cox .020 Pee Wee, guidance was an Ace R/C Pulse Commander superhet single channel proportional receiver with Adams Baby Twin Actuator operating the rudder. I purchased the radio for $70 at a local hobby shop in Virginia Beach. I bought the kit from Hobby Shack (now Hobby People) for $5 or $6 plus postage. The large 1.5 Volt Everyready zinc oxide bell battery for glow plug igniting was a little over a buck. Rarely burnt out a plug or glow head with it.

With all the problems of CB radio systems back then, the superhet technology of the Ace system proved reliable over the super-regenerative escapement flight systems. Although anything is possible, I never got shot down. Plus even with the wagging tail, it was truly proportional rudder, which helped with the learning curve. (No "texting" commands as with escapements, i.e., 1 blip & hold - left rudder, 2 blips & hold - right rudder, etc.)

I crashed it many times learning, but it was sturdy and easy to repair. I only got about a minute and a half flights with the Cox gray 4.5x2 nylon prop, but if I used a Top Flite 5.25x3 nylon, I got double the flight time with the same flight speed, plus the Top Flite props were more durable.

Only thing about the T/F props is they were sufficiently out of balance, that they required balancing, sanding the back side of the heavy blade, I bought a balancer that consisted of two used double edged shaving razor blades on an aluminum bracket mounted to a wood platform. It had about a half dozen different diameter steel dowels to fit the prop hole.

For a young man on a meager salary, that set up provided me with inexpensive fun for the next couple planes. A quart can of fuel or two lasted me a summer. I learned a lot about trimming these R/O planes, shimming the wings for wind, judging dead stick landings so I could put the plane within 10 feet of me, learning the R/O aerobatics. I'd amaze more experienced pilots on multi how one could maintain control using just one channel.

I didn't get myself a multiproportional system until I was in college in the late 1970's. As a poor college student, I continued flying single channel, and two with the digital proportional. To keep RC affordable, I continued with the smaller kit planes, largest engine the OS Max .10R/C cross scavenge. The Cox .049's and OS engines were economical enough that I could afford fuel for them. A quart can was in a college student's budget.

So, even though there was the slight occasional needling of Y-kant-U-fly-a-40-size-plane-like-the-rest-of-us, while a poor boy I could enjoy my hobby living within my means. Reminds me of a car bumper sticker when I lived in California 25 years ago, DON'T LAUGH, IT'S PAID FOR. RC doesn't have to be expensive.

Today, multichannel radios, ARFs and power systems are more affordable. Nowadays the smaller planes in half-A size have returned as "park flyers", and one sees them regularly, there is no stigma about small flight these days. The larger planes are affordable, too.

But for a young working man and college student in the 1970's, and even as a young professional in the 1980's, small and simple RC was a good option. I don't know about others, but I certainly had a blast.

Gwhawg

I read ken willards column in RCM. He called himself the wee plane man Ther was a larger version of the school boy that I had later. It actually flew away from me do to not enough rudder. Back in single channel days when the plane got too high you held full rudder and it would spiral down. This one I did not have enough rudder. When I tried to come down it just circled and climbed until I lost control and it flew away never to be found .

buzzard bait

Greybeard...Konofes flew a 54 inch BB on a TELCO CO2?! That is incredible. I know the turbo tank was supposed to make it a little stronger, but I flew my Telco on a Sig Monocoupe, 24 inch span, 2 oz. That was a great airplane. I can't imagine how anyone could build a 54 inch plane that would fly on that motor. Must have been a cross between and airplane and a soap bubble!

I few control line at the cow pasture at the end of my road in Iowa. Throw the planes over the barbed wire, climb the rickety fence, meet a buddy and his planes...heaven! I started with a miserable Wen Mac P-39 plastic model that would barely fly and only if the helper threw it hard enough. Switched that lousy engine to a little AJ Walker Flybaby and started having fun. Then a Scientific Fokker Triplane, finally got a used Cox 049 for a Sterling Baby Ringmaster...fun, but my buddy's Baby Flitestreak was better. Then combat with Lil Satans and home brew jobs, etc. It's funny to hear people complain about starting Cox 049s...they were fantastic as far as I was concerned.

Eventually bought a TF Schoolboy to fly with a Cox 020, which was a great combination. But my radio was a cheap escapement type and I only got one flight with it. Wish I'd spent the money on the Ace pulse.

Many years later in Ithaca I finally had success with rubber FF, then the Telco, and finally bought an Ace Digital Commander radio kit, soldered it together, and it worked! I built a TF Schoolmaster, remembering the nice little Schoolboy, powered it with a Cox QRC, remembering the good Cox engines, and I had years of success with that plane.

Finally joined the local club and build a Midwest Livewire Champ with an OS 15, and taught myself touch and goes, etc. Had that plane for years too. Many, many planes since, but I don't think I've ever had more fun than I did teaching myself on the Schoolmaster and the Champ.

Cheers everyone, it's been fun, hasn't it? Jim

jcacropilot

Can any identify these kits?

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I finally got my hands on a Holland Hornet when I was 19, it was an .051 as I recall and not .049, it really got with the program. When I was in the army my dad gave away the control line planes I had and even gave away the engines with them. One of the engines was my hard found Hornet. They weren't seen often, the TD was king but the Hornet was really an outstanding engine, I liked it better then the TD.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

Looks like a Lanier Shrike, and then the other one looks like a modified Sig Wonder

jcacropilot

Thanks

Telemaster Sales UK

I promised a funny story to lighten the winter blues so here's one from not so long ago.

When I used to import the Telemasters I was invited to display them at a special meeting organised by a club "somewhere in the English Midlands," as they used to say in the Second World War! The club had also invited a number of very proficient 3D and aerobatic flyers. I flew the electric powered 48" and 72" Telemasters without incident before flashing up the Thunder Tiger 91 in the 8 foot ARTF Senior Telemaster which you can see in my avatar. I took off and flew it round in basic circuits and figures of eight for perhaps ten or fifteen minutes, then decided to land but for some reason the throttle would not shut sufficiently to enable me to do this so the model flew on. I had a sixteen ounce tank in that model so while the young hotshots were making their models do everything except fly backwards, the old STM was droning round the sky at a high altitude just to keep out of their way. After half an hour even I got bored so I tried cutting the throttle on the top of a loop, stall turns and Immelmans, anything to get that engine to cut but the worthy old Thunder Tiger just kept droning on. After 45 minutes the engine ran out of fuel and I was able to effect a dead-stick landing.

I made some adjustments to the throttle push rod and I was shown how to set the kill button facility on my Dx6i. I'm totally useless with computers!

Now, every time I see one of those club members they all remind me of that epic flight!

I stopped importing the Telemasters when the supplier decided to deal with all enquiries centrally, and no I didn't owe him money! Simultaneously he had increased the price of the kits and the price of shipping to such a degree that my business was no longer viable; it was never that profitable anyway. However, I had sold over 60 kits to enthusiasts from Serbia to Ireland, from Scotland to South Africa, I had half a dozen blokes on the waiting list and I'm still sometimes called "Mr Telemaster."

For February's funny story I'll tell you how that STM met its end but Sunday 4th January 2015 promises to be cold but sunny with little wind. I'm going flying!

Greybeard1

At the time he brought it to Bong, there were several people flying CO2, me included. I had a Pietenpol doubled from a Peck Polymers peanut plan. and I thought it was big. It was also heavy for what it should have been, but flew okay on a standard Telco. Clarence Chapman told me to go take a look at what Joe had, first glance I figured .049, then looked closer. Turbotank, and I would never have believed it would pull that plane, but it did. Very slow climb, but with a look I'd have to say was majestic. I never picked it up, but all I can say for it, that thing had to be as much nothing surrounded with as little as possible, then add lightness. Joe designed a few planes for Comet, one being the 54 inch Taylorcraft, another being a Piper Super Cruiser with a 26 19/32" span. He never would say how he got that span, but it was an ideal plane for CO2. It started me on a quest to get a turbotank, never did find one. They had a lot better duration, a little more power available.

The other one that was amazing to see in flight was Jim Noonan's compressed air motors. Again, small motor and what seemed a huge model for it to pull, but they were again, majestic in flight. There was a lot to learn from that bunch, and I don't think any one man could learn all they had to teach. I'd sit and watch them sending up their old timers, and how they got those to transition from the climb to the glide without any "stall and recover", I still haven't figured. The nose would just come down to normal glide, and stay there. Beautiful!

Rich

donnyman

ok! three days and no response. I am admittedly a little disappointed.... just in case you are interested....... the day before I flew it Roy bought new props for the bird all turned out to be..... pushers.

another question... we are having trouble getting FAI fuel (no nitro) does anyone have a formula? we intend to brew our own!

I have had a lot of trouble convincing others that sport fly that they don't need a nitro fuel, I rarely use more than 5% and then only when the weather gets cold. Nitro aids the starting process. One of my flying associates could not figure out why his engine would stall out just a few seconds after launch, It was brand new. the weather was hot. I spoke with him for a long time before he would even try a reduced nitro fuel, but after he tried a tank of 5%. He swore off high nitro fuel and noted his engine ran much cooler, It used to heat up and sieze. Nitro produces a lot of heat. Now the older engines he owned flown with 15% fuel were too worn in to run well with low nitro fuel. ........We have also noticed the cost of low nitro fuel has increased. when we can find it, it used to be the lowest priced fuel.

G/ghost ....I built and flew the schoolboy in Phoenix Arizona with a .020 as a freeflight in 1962 (Didn't have a reliable radio) I was never disappointed by it. The wing was fully sheeted. I gave it to my going to be father inlaw and his sons.

I kinda envy those that could do a good soldering job back in the day. I was so ignorant about electronics it is shameful. I used my dads stove heated iron about the size of two thumbs wide and too much heat (I say this in afterthougt) I did succesfully build a five channel Heathkit years later, which launched me into r/c big time, but I really didn't have the proper soldering skill until I returned to work as a temp. in 1993 at my old employer .(At a substantially reduced salary) There I was trained in thirteen different soldering techniques several were 40 hour classes, I can recognize a good solder joint now and keep my electronics for dummies book close at hand.

GallopingGhostler

Gwhawg, I believe that Schoolboy like larger plane was the 39 inch (991 mm) Schoolmaster. It made a wild rudder only plane with the OS Max .10R/C on quick blip throttle with the Ace pulse proportional.


Similarly, I lost a Goldberg 1/2-A Cessna Skylane due to the same reason you lost yours. In Summer 1978 I bought the Mattel single channel pulse and built this kit, covered it in yellow Econokote. Flown with a Golden Bee, I made the mistake of flying just before a thunderstorm. Before raindrops the size of quarters hit, A strong updraft carried it away. I was flying at an RC field in North Little Rock, Arkansas. I tried spiralling it down, but it just kept circling gaining altitude until it was a speck over the far end of the field. Probably wound up somewhere in Oklahoma.

That is amazing, buzzard bait, I observed the same, too. I learned to fly CL on a Sterling Beginner's Eindecker. I crashed that many times in learning, but it was much more sturdy than the Cox RTF's and flew better. From other's inputs in various forums, it seems these RTF's were probably responsible toward preventing promotion of CL than any other factor. An inexperience father would take his son to the park, set up to fly. Son inexperienced and trembling would get a half circle Figure-9 flight with crash scene worthy of an NTSB investigation, parts scattered to the 4 corners of the earth. (That was me at 12 years old.) I finally learned to fly 6 years later as a young man.

donnyman, Ken Willard was a genius and his planes when built right flew well. I gave mine to a fellow flyer when I moved.

buzzard bait, I remember seeing the multi-page AHC ads in the modeling magazines. There was a transistor super-regen single channel escapement system for $40. Back then as a high school student, it required me to get an FCC license. I didn't get a license until I was 18 and out of high school. My license started with KBNH. May be it was good that I never purchased that cheaper radio system.

The TF Schoolmaster was lightweight and a good flyer. It flew amazingly well on pulse proportional rudder only with sequential throttle and the OS .10R/C. Flying in the Hawaiian tropic 15 mph breezes, which rarely abated didn't do much for my single channel landings on short grass. I kept flying it until the continuous repairs took their toll.

.15 sized planes are fun, I still enjoy them.


I guess I can call myself blessed as my father was the electronics shop teacher at my high school. In junior high, I had access to his 40 Watt soldering iron and VOM, which were the right tools. I must admit though I only know one soldering technique, get the material around the component lead heated up and the solder will flow, limit heat exposure on semiconductors to prevent destroying them. Building tube (valve) radio kits, making my own printed circuit board for a 2 transistor radio and etc. prepared me to assemble my Charlie R/C 4 channel radio around 1980.

Gwhawg

Yes it was the schoolmaster that flew away. To make matters worse it was flying about the best I had ever done. I had rudder and up elevator escapement of course. I was flying and enjoying myself didn't even know I was in trouble until I tried to bring it down. Then o got to watch my new plane on its first flight , fly off never to be seen again

rt3232

My Feedback: (6)

well now that we are into fly away stories back in about 1962 1/2 I built a Hearh kit single chnl and a compound escapement and put it in a little hi wing bird (don't remember the make) any way got every thing working wright range check etc, flew it several times, it was a hand launch proposition. Then decided to show how it worked to the wife and a friend, I got every thing going showed them how I range check etc, started the engine turned on the transmitter picked up the plane and launched it only to relies I had not turned on the receiver, so up it went in slow big left circles into the over cast at about 2k ft. never to be seen again, had my name addy and phone in it but never heard of it.
First thing the wife ask was how much did I have in it, My answer was don't ask, and my friend laughed all the way home.

I did build another escapement and plane flew it for a about a year, job change so the bits went into a hobby box and the plane went into the trash.

Cheers Bob T

j.duncker

My Feedback: (2)

There is this guy in the UK who is reverse engineering the early RC stuff but on 2.4 using standard rx and servos. The clever stuff is done on the input to a standard 2.4 tx module. You would need is an old reed TX with working switches the electronics would be discarded.

Examples about 3/4s the way down this page http://www.mccrash-racing.co.uk/sc/sc24g.htm email link at the bottom.

He has about 250 of the single channel modules out now.

.

I have no connection with Phil but if I was in a position to be flying stuff again I would have one of his SC sets and an OLD TIMEY model for those light wind days of nostalgia.

j.duncker

My Feedback: (2)

An original Holland Hornet is rare and collectible but you can get a repro that is about as good. http://www.mecoa.com/vintage/index2.htm However it will lag behind a TD 049.

Even a good Hornet with the hot head will be out turned by a TD. Bill Attwood designed both. The TD was a big jump forward.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

THanks for the info. Is Mecoa actually doing anything anymore? They have had the RJL .15 on backorder for like 15 years! lol