joebahl

My Feedback: (2)

Nice post Donny and i agree. joe

donnyman

your opinion please!I finally got this monster glassed and now would like to apply aluminum sheet adhesive backed duct tape, the small area I tested on looked very good...Now..has any of you guys used this stuff and what suggestions do you have? I gotta git this thing off the bench. I got eight others waiting.

Propworn

My Feedback: (3)

First off I have no experience applying any of these. I have observed the finish of both the flight metal and the aluminium duct tape both applied by accomplished builders. I don't remember the flight metal ever giving problems even years after applying. The aluminium duct tape I have noticed on some models did not hold the same level of finish over the long term. The flight metal I believe is more expensive so I guess it would depend on what you expected as far as how long you would use the model.

Both looked excellent in my opinion when new. I would like to see some pictures as your applying this if you would not mind.

Dennis

skylark-flier

Donnyman, the same general thoughts and observations are present in one of the AMA special interest groups - Vintage R/C Society. VR/CS consists of nearly nothing other than builders and the disappearance of building materials, engines, fuel - the whole gamut, is a very major issue to us - and sure to become more acute as time goes on. I don't have the answers, I doubt anyone really does, but we've all got to do our best to keep the suppliers of the world aware that there ARE still builders in the world.

If I might throw in a personal note, and this is simply my very humble opinion - you're right, ARFs aren't the cause nor the solution. Today's "instant gratification" society is the cause. I see it everywhere I go, in everything I do. Nobody seems to be interested in quality anymore, they just want it NOW. Hence, ARFs and RTFs. They, for the most part, are what I call "throw-aways" - they're OK for a quickie but you won't see one that's flying today still in the air 40 years from now, unlike the planes we build. Shoot, other than my 1-yr old SIG Kadet Mk-II my youngest still-flying plane is 1979-built. I want to see an ARF/RTF with that record, some 36 years from now. Not going to happen.

Anyway, back in the dawn of model flying (as I've heard tell) the guys had to pretty much invent everything they used. It just might become a circle - we'll have to do it all over again. That's "progress", as they say. Personally, "they" can have it.

OK guys, I'm off my soap-box. Sorry 'bout dat.

I-fly-any-and-all

My Feedback: (1)

great looking p-51. only hope my royal turns out that nice.

rt3232

My Feedback: (6)

Donny

I have no personal experience with ether of these, but a few years back I did do some research, and to this date I have only heard of one project ware the builder did not like flite-metal, but at the time I did find I could get a lighter material from a Co. called Mcmaster Car, and as I recall the tape was 4 or 6 inches wide, it was also a bit cheaper, and then decided not to go that route as I felt is was to far out of my comfort zone. the duct tape is a bit heaver than Flite-metal from what I have read.

Your 51 is good looking and keep posting pic. as what ever you do will be interesting

Cheers Bob T

donnyman

I guess as in most things the overall appearance and longevity is proportional to the quality of the work performed. I hope to do well but I really don't know exactly what I will do.
As far as pictures go I will do my best but as of late it seems my brain isn't cooperating with my wants so bear with me. (remind me)

Here is another pic. it is dated and the bird is now in glass. I only have one coat of resin on it and don't want to add any more as this alum. covers pretty good, we'll have to wait and see how it goes. I have a lot of scale detailing to do.

donnyman

I am sure your bird will do fine. One thing with royal kits, keep a lot of sand paper on hand you will need it. Royal loved blocks of wood, I built the royal B-25 way back when and it was a fantastic flyer, I used the original Wankel engines and the bird flew with authority. there were a few royal kits at the Georgetown TX. swap meet.

donnyman

Skylark-flier

That soap box is plenty crowded, I been on it several times, we are in agreement. I have been seeking alternate materials for years and adding to my stock pile of goodies I hate not haveing what I need when I want it. so I do a lot of planing ahead. I just picked up a set of retracts for a future f-16 build. Hang in there some how we will survive.

Greybeard1

Nice craftsmanship, Donny. I can admire the big birds, but they're something I'd never have, prefer about 40 size.

Doing exactly nothing here, got dumped another foot of new show, temperature now at almost nine in the morning is only eight degrees. Supposed to stay that way for a few days. I'll be staying in the living room for a while, but computer graphic projects will maybe advance a little from a dead stop more than a year ago. In my younger days I used to ice skate, now I got at least a little sense.

Rich

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

Donny that Stang is beautiful! Here is another option for you Aerofoil. It is thinner than flitemetal so easier to get around curves and it sold in two widths and in bulk by the foot instead of as a kit, so you only buy what you need. It is also a little less expensive than Flitemetal.
Here is the link to Aerofoil: http://www.aero-accessories.com/Builders.html

donnyman

Thanks guys!

keep the info coming! The more I get the better chance of having a cool bird..... THANKS! I have forty sized birds also, it is all good!

I got something for you If you haven't looked on this site --Aircraft-exotic and special intrest -vintage and old timer threads you are missing something, I just downloaded more plans for free, they are old but have fantastic potential. A lot of the stuff we may have dealt with back when....check it out.

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

My problem is I have too many airplanes to build now. I'm afraid to look at plans!

donnyman

Me too...But I love to see how others have constructed a particular design and try to enhance my skills. Most of the plans I've downloaded will never be built by me but they contain so much info it is hard to pass up. Each plan I have has some type of fascination for me to ponder so I have all types on my hardrive.

Some of the designs are so weird I can't imagine why anyone would want it. but it was built and flown so who am I to say?

GallopingGhostler

True donnyman & FlyerInOKC, know the feeling. What amazes me more is some of the construction techniques done 50+ years ago, which fell by the wayside because better technics of building came into being.

Take for example, CL profile fuselages of 1/4" to 3/8" plywood of the 1940's, such as the 1948 Gold Trophy contest winner, 29" span Kan Doo. It was innovative for the time and an accomplishment. No doubt Pete Cock carefully selected his wood along with proper weights and moments for the ED Comp diesel engine. Nowadays, a replica would be best built using sheet balsa with plywood nose planking.

Berkeley used 3/8" red oak plank for 42" span combat/stunt 1960 Interceptor CL nose and built up wing to fuselage that was butted up against the fuselage, an accident looking for an occasion. Sterling's 36" profile 1950's Lockheed P-38 twin with landing gear mounted sandwiched between two balsa wing ribs at each boom and nose gear clamped between two 3/16" balsa sheets to make up the 3/8" profile cockpit and armanent pod.

Comet rubber powered models used balsa stick landing gear and modeling (sewing) pin axles, which tore off upon first flight. An astute modeler would learn the hard way what worked and didn't. Scientific and Goldberg kits were better engineered. But the cost of Comet and Berkeley kits were affordable by many. One could simply leave off the gear on planes that had retractable gear. I started to modify their designs to make proper music wire landing gear mounted to the airframe that could sustain landings better, but kept light enough so they could fly.

Guillow rubber powered kits except for their simple flier series were heavier framed compared with the Comet's, I had faster speed flights required for them to generate enough lift to fly with repairs required because they hit harder when they landed. Nowadays, a replica would be built out of lightweight contest grade balsa.

Those techniques of building and trimming for free flight morphed to trimming a single channel RC plane for successful flight. These smaller planes were a stepping stone to successful RC flight.

Thus, there were lots of lessons learned through experience of building and flying, including trimming a model for flight that today with all the RTF's and ARF's modelers can't appreciate.

I-fly-any-and-all

My Feedback: (1)

anyone ever thought to see if we could gain the interest of model engine collector and manufacturer Woody Bartelt? www.woodysengines.com
I made a visit to his place during the summer and was amazed by not only his collection but by the stories he could tell!

donnyman

Looks like we got a history lesson of construction techniques from G/Ghostler, cool info! model building has definitely been a progressive learning process that has reached a point of almost guaranteed flight success. I've seen video on you tube that showed models from not to long ago that obviously needed proper trimming which is obvious to us now but back then ?????????

Redtail_Customs

The last scratch build I did was a 68 in. p51 B. And covered in aluminum. One thig the weave has to be sealed and perfect or the weave pattern will,show through at least with the tape I used

GallopingGhostler

Thanks, Donnyman. Speaking of trimming, back then there were books made by the likes of Walt Musciano and Keith Laumer. I have Walt's Building and Flying Scale Model Aircraft that I purchased years later. Back as early as the mid 1960's and beyond, I'd regularly go to the library and check out Keith Laumer's book, How to Design and Build Flying Models (Outerzone link) along with Walt's book. They had all sort of hints on building, repairing and trimming models. Nowadays with the advent of Internet, we have free access to many resources. Back then, our sources were through books and magazines, friends and our own personal experiences.

Not all flights went well. Chapter 8 - Rebuild that Wreck had inspiring thoughts that helped me repair my models.

My father buiit a few stick and tissue models, designed one himself, a British WW1 biplane. He never attempted to fly them. I guess back in the '30s he built his as static display models. I didn't have modeler friends who liked to build, so I learned to fly and trim on my own. For a 12 YO, these books came in handy.

HoundDog

My Feedback: (49)

Last night Tuesday Feb 3 rd at the February of the Arizona Model Aviators monthly meeting our guest speaker was no other than Rich Hanson the AMA's Liaison to the FAA. Long story short He used to belong to the this club still has a home in Scottsdale and had a really well presented Power Point pretension on what has Happened between the AMA/FAA Pretty much since 2008 and before.Even though his Microsoft Lap top desided to Reboot and UPDATE it self Rich kept right on with out it till it decided to come back to life. There was a extensive question and answer session that followed his presentation... And U have the 3 types of members
1. The Board to death guys I don't even know why they attend the meeting except some are Club Officers.
2. The Long winded guy that keeps asking the same Question in differ-ant ways.
3. and the person that really seems interested enough to pay attention and if they do ask a question it's almost intelligent.
you could that MR Hanson has run in to all Types and very grayishly attempted/did answer the questions intelligently.

But here is an interesting and well thought and Presented truth about this Hobby/Sports Feature. Be painent It's not what U would expect from the title.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iz19DQ6-eGE

donnyman

your right! but it seems the glassing I did filled the weave very well but I do have some bumps and such to sand.

I'm heading to my shop now, need to take my camera.

Redtail_Customs

Instead of filling the weave with epoxy weight I filled it with the red spot putty the stuff you get at a auto parts store thinned with. Lacquer thinner dries in in minutes. And sands like butter

donnyman

Oh bummer! I just now finished the bottom of my bird with epoxy micro balloon paste, I will try the thinned body filler next time. sounds good.
You were right about the weave showing through the ALUM. it was not very noticeable because of the tight weave of the clothe, but it did show.

I did some test panels to be sure and tried some detailing but I am not satisfied. we'll see tomorrow.

donnyman

well now I finally got the picture I wanted loaded, the other was out of focus as you can see these are test panels to check out how I have to do what I want. Some weave showed through but you really have to look cloce to see it. I have since recoated this surface with resin and microballoons. I am not happy with the results but I am not truly versed in this technique, especially how to get different sufrace finish on the alum. fine sanding is too coarse.

donnyman

Meanwhile when I get bored with what I am doing I change up a little and slap together something simple like this It is a old kit I got at a swap meet.
I buy these only if the price is right and I intend to build a larger version in the future. I am redrawing ( increase the size and make more scale) a set of plans for a turbine version.
I think I have a set of off scale gear that will work so I have most of what is needed for the build. when?......Who Knows? But I am enjoying the planning stage.