donnyman

Yes, what comes to mind is the ones made by Lanier but in the late 70's early eighties time frame. they didn't seem to hold together very well, but flew reasonably good enough. Arf's have come a long way since.

Joe Fisher

My Feedback: (4)

In the early 80'sThere were some Styrofoam Cubs that used .25 engines. They used fiberglass packing tape to reinforce the wings. They flew real good and the kit only cost $19.95. I have wondered what happened to those.

GallopingGhostler

Welcome to the club, Buzz.

Edlin for DOS. Ed for CP/M-80. Vi for Unix/Linux.

You were in tall cotton with perhaps the best home computing system then. I saw the prices and got sticker shock, so I went the cheaper route and got more involved into hardware hacking. That was a lot of fun. Remember the Texas Instruments 99/4 home computer, one of the first 16 bit ones? Unfortunately TI didn't do a good job of marketing and with all accessories was expensive.

I started out on a Timex Sinclair TS1000 home computer in 1982. At $100, was slow, but you could hack by poking machine language into a prefilled REM (REMark) statement. Had the optional 16k RAM pack and silver foil electric etch printer. Removed the motherboard and installed into a universal aluminum console keyboard case that I cut out to fit a standard keyboard I modified and rewired. Used aftermarket labels over keys to denote special Sinclair functions. Modified Steve Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar sound board project and interfaced to back panel connector. Got it all to work, memory mapped it because TS Basic didn't have INP() and OUT(). Sent commands to the TI 76489 sound chip via POKE() commands. Machine language was faster.

2nd home computer was a Radio Shack Color Computer II. Bought 2 through a manager's special in 1986 for $20 each. Through the Sacramento CoCo Club, unsoldered 16k and installed 64k RAM, unsoldered ROM, installed new socket for EPROM, burned anew with extended and enhanced Basic. Had to cut traces and run a few wires to make new RAM and EPROM work. Modified the floppy cartridge replacing the ROM with EPROM burned with ADOS, an aftermarket enhance disk basic. Installed a 2nd single sided double density 5-1/4" floppy drive, now I was in tall cotton.

Installed daughter board so I could use a monitor instead of TV. Added switches and TTL logic to enable extended text capabilities to 6847 video chip. Although 6809 CPU ran at 0.9 MHz, it was faster than other CPU's, had enhanced instruction set to include a few 16 bit instructions. Was like a superset to the similar 6502 CPU. (6502 was no slouch, an 8 bit RISC CPU, LOL.) Made an adapter to serial port to use a surplus thermal printer.

With a 300 Baud modem and Mikeyterm communication program, I could now connect to bulletin boards using a 32 character by 16 line screen, LOL. CoCo-II didn't have lower case, upper case was denoted by inverse caps (green on black instead of black on green).

After went into CP/M with stuff purchased from the Xerox Surplus Store. Did further hacking on a Xerox 820-II converted to a 16/8 business system (for home use). Had to modify bios to use a non spec'd 10 megabyte hard drive. Patched partition and format utilities, too. After then went to 286 clones.

If you include the building wiring and campus infrastructure, I bet that 23k asset would be much higher.

I helped a friend with his Commodore 64. Their Basic was weaker than Atari or RS Basic. Clearing the screen using Basic was slow, it did not have draw or clear commands in graphics mode. I showed him how to create a machine language program, poked into a REM statement, then EXEC to run. Screen cleared in a flash.

Never owned one of those, my plastic Cox UC's were one shot fliers, LOL.

Yes, times have changed. Had to marvel at the attitudes, similar to how some reacted if you showed up at the flying site with something smaller than a .40 powered aircraft. Anything less than a .40 was considered toy class. Yet I had a lot of fun with "toys".

Know what you mean, Donny. At one job location, seemed they didn't promote workers, because if they did, there'd be no one to do the work. Not a bit surprising that they experienced a high turn over, plus made bad management decisions turning down steady work for prestigious work. Shortly after they were a victim of BRAC 1995, closed forever, not surprising.

blvdbuzzard

Ahh yes, edlin, edit line. I only remember that because I had 3 upper managers, the top dog breathing over my shoulder while I tried to configure a DOS3 machine and I had spent so much time on 5, 6, 6.1, 6.2, 6.22 that I forgot a bunch of the commands.

When I talk about autoexe.bat, config.sys, win.sys, command prompts, host files and the list goes on, I get this deer in the head lights look from the newer techs. I told run to bring up the run command, type rd *.exe and del *.* . They did. Then spent the next hour re imaging the desktop. Funny how little they know of the old stuff that is still there just buried under all those pretty pictures. I asked a simple question one day, how do you open note pad with out a mouse? Most of them can not get around with out one. Funny how they acted so confused.


I was always laughed at and told to get a REAL plane. I flew a lot of 10 and 15 sized planes. I flew for a long time on a gallon of fuel when i was using 4 ounces at a time. I never had an issue with the small engines not running. The ones who put me down the loudest were the ones who could not get the engines to run well.

I bet there is more than the roughly 23k assets out there. That is pretty much just the user side of things, desktop, laptops, tablets, printers, plotters and such. Not sure how many nodes are on the net side?

I would like to pop in for a visit in say 100 years from now. We would be way farther a head or we would be back in the stone age.

I had a bunch of the Sureflite planes, Spitfire, Mustang, Cubs, Cessna. I would like to have one of the P-40's and a Mustang again. Make them electric. They would make good planes.


Buzz.

Carlos Murphy

My Feedback: (72)

I remember those plastic and foam things, my girlfriend bought me some kind of a glider in the mid 70's, I think was from Lanier, it was blue and ugly. I flew it at Torri Pines Ca. along with a new Hobbi Hawk.

rt3232

My Feedback: (6)

Guys never flew an R/C from Tori Pines, but I did get my frst glider ride there in a 2 seter and a cable tow, out over the cliff and a hard left turn to parallel to the cliff's and a 180 about 1/2 mile down and then back for about a mile another 180 and so it went for about an hour much fun and the launch was a real hart stopper, don't think they do that any more.
that was back in the late 50's
As far as computer's go I was involved in the mfg part and never had to learn to use one till I left Unisis, and now I just dislike them but they are a necessary item.

Cheers

Joe Fisher

My Feedback: (4)

I was always laughed at and told to get a REAL plane. I flew a lot of 10 and 15 sized planes. I flew for a long time on a gallon of fuel when i was using 4 ounces at a time. I never had an issue with the small engines not running. The ones who put me down the loudest were the ones who could not get the engines to run well.



I used to like smaller airplanes and smaller engines because of the high price of the fuel. Then I discovered that methanol cost less than $3/gallon I buy castor oil from Sig it is $38.15/gallon and Klotz oil is 39.99/gallon. I put 10% castor in the fuel for my Super Tigre 2300 it is almost as cheep as gasoline.I put 30% castor in my old plain bearing engines Fox Torpedo K&B. I put 10% castor and 10% Klotz oil in the Satio and OS. No nitro at all I don't see any difference with out it. And I like the bigger airplanes they fly so nice more like real airplanes.

Carlos Murphy

My Feedback: (72)

Really? Guys never flew R/C at Tori Pines? When were you there?
I did R/C slope soaring there in the mid 70's when I lived in Palm Spring, there were also hang gliders and full size sail planes, eventually they outlawed R/C flying but I don't know exactly when.

Carlos Murphy

My Feedback: (72)

BTW, one of the most popular airplanes for slope soaring at Tori Pines were modified control line profile planes like the Midwest ME-109.
Battery pack in the nose, holes in the fuse to slide in the servos sideways, install ailerons, rudder if you like and your set.
Two friends of mine built Silent Squires from planes in RCM magazine, they flew great.

donnyman

I used to like smaller airplanes and smaller engines because of the high price of the fuel. Then I discovered that methanol cost less than $3/gallon I buy castor oil from Sig it is $38.15/gallon and Klotz oil is 39.99/gallon. I put 10% castor in the fuel for my Super Tigre 2300 it is almost as cheep as gasoline.I put 30% castor in my old plain bearing engines Fox Torpedo K&B. I put 10% castor and 10% Klotz oil in the Satio and OS. No nitro at all I don't see any difference with out it. And I like the bigger airplanes they fly so nice more like real airplanes.[/QUOTE]

I am right with you! my thinking exactly. I have a hard time convincing many at the field of what you said, they don't have a clue about nitro content, then wonder why that new engine burned up in the first season.

donnyman

Speaking of gliders I have a camano 100 glider kit gathering dust if you know someone that maight be interested point them my way. the plans are missing.

rt3232

My Feedback: (6)

Carlos you have to remember in the late 50 R/c was single Chnl G/G with tubes etc, so not good, early 60's I did have a 4 chnl reed ( kRAFT ) out fit but you were all ways tuning the reeds in the receiver, in the mid 60's I did build a digi-guad via RCM it was a good out fit and lasted till my son came along then every thing stopped till he was about 12 and by then good P/P Futaba radio's were available, and we have never looked back, and when he found out about girls he gave up the model flying and I just could not brake away.

To much story so
Cheers

Carlos Murphy

My Feedback: (72)

Cheers,
I don't do back that far, didn't start R/C till the mid 70's in Palm Springs, first radio was a World Engines 4 ch single stick with no servo reversing.
Put it in a 110" California Coaster with a Dejelsky wing (not sure of the spelling) built from RCM plans. I think my second glider was a Wanderer with a Kraft Brick in it.
That was about the time HOT STUFF came on the market and just a few years before that was Monokote.

GallopingGhostler

I remember my first encounter with Monokote, covered a Goldberg 1/2-A Falcon with a roll of orange. I found it revolutionary, used an ordinary clothes iron to install, took me the better half of a day. Previously, it was either silkspan or silk and several coats clear dope, which took several days to a week to finish. Silkspan looked nice but wasn't puncture resistant, easy to damage with the brushy conditions at the flying sites. 2nd plane to use Monokote was my Sterling UC F-51 Mustang profile with Testors McCoy .19 Red Head, used chrome color.

Got a House of Balsa 2x2 two meter glider kit given to me from a friend when he moved away some 30 years ago. Later HOB discontinued kit and came out with a modified one called 2x4 with shorter wingspan. Build is part of my bucket list.

Yes, I remember Hot Stuff Cyanoacrylate glue. Seemed revolutionary and I used it and clones a lot. Now, I prefer using water based carpenter's glue, is gap filling and at least to me does a better job.

rt3232

My Feedback: (6)

Hay G/G over the years I have found if you make good clean joints any quality C/A works well then when I get an assembly finished, I go back with water proof carpenters glue thinned 50/50 it makes good fillets, and makes for a stronger assembly
But that is just my way, so what ever works is good in my book

Cheers Bob T

GallopingGhostler

Bob, mebbe if I stopped buying old kits from auctions with wood as old as I am, might find better results with CA.

rt3232

My Feedback: (6)

G/G you could be right, some of the old kits even when new the wood was less than fair, I found a lot to be way to soft for the task,and have found kits after the mid 60's the wood was much better, but not all ways, good balsa in my area was hard to get in any quantity,and to expensive. So my building buddy and I put together about a 300 $$ order to the old BUD NORSAN plant in Duluth MN, sheets sticks ply etc,and we are still using it to day, but I have to admit my supply is down to one box of sheet stock, and most likely will last me for the rest of my builds.
But as I say that is just my way.

Cheers Bob T

rt3232

My Feedback: (6)

One other thing I learned was you had to match balsa to get a straight air frame and keep it stright

GallopingGhostler

RT, with really old wood the CA just would not stick. Wood in new kits would stick right away, including to fingers. Here's a sample of the wood from my 1959 Berkeley Impulse kit, die crunched, trimmed and had to shim fuselage splices to make it work, accuracy at its best.

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

CA is moisture activated and old balsa is extremely dried out so you need to use a PVA glue like Titbond or attempt to restore some of the moisture to the wood.

Joe Fisher

My Feedback: (4)

I didn't realize kits were that bad. I haven't built a kit in at least 40 years. Before the computer I would order from Balsa USA with there add in RCM and buy plans.I have so many I haven't used. plans since the computer I keep finding new places some better than others. I really like Ambroid but I just use CA because it is more available. The CA seems to be much stronger than the wood and it seems to strengthen the wood. I kind of like Cover All but I can't use the dope in the house so I use the plastic and it is OK.

FlyerInOKC

My Feedback: (6)

I think its more of a crap shoot. I still see kits with good wood but Its more luck of the draw with what the kit manufacturer can get at the time they restock. Wind turbine blades continue to use the lion share of available Balsa.

rgburrill

Never flew at Torrey Pines. Was always loooking down at Blacks Beach - the nude beach.

rgburrill

Last plane I built I finished about 5 years ago but it was a 40 year old Champion kit. And the wood was in great shape. It had been kept in air condtitioned storage for about 30 years.

GallopingGhostler

I'd say Berkeley was more the exception than the rule. So far I have 2 Berkeley kits, 1959 46" span Impulse single channel RC pylon racer and 42" span Interceptor CL combat / stunt plane. Both have unusual construction features. The plans are missing fine details that are illustrated in Goldberg, Top Flite, DMECo (DeBolt Model Engineering Company) and Scientific kits. The Impulse uses rectangular bulkheads but they are solid. I measured and ball penned cut outs, then cut to lighten. Wood quality for most parts usable but there are instances where the wood must be replaced.Wood quality is rough sawn sides, one must judiciously sand.

The Interceptor has no plan but an instruction sheet with isometric (3D) illustrations. I intend to draft plans from the parts for future use. The Interceptor uses solid 3/8" thick red oak for the fuselage front to 1/3rd of the wing chord, butt joined to 3/8" thick balsa. That makes the nose heavy and is a disaster waiting to happen. Interceptor 1/4"x1" wing trailing edge is of poor quality wood and misshaped, undersized. I will replace the trailing edges, make the fuselage one piece 3/8" balsa with 3/8" hardwood engine mounting rails and front planked with 1/16" - 3/32" plywood like the way all other manufacturers do.

If one intends to build a Berkeley kit, they'd be better off getting a short kit from a laser cutter.