RBACONS

My Feedback: (3)

The whole point of a simulator is to mimic the physics of a real RC plane as closely as possible. And different types of planes (trainer vs aerobatic, vs warbird, etc) will behave differently in various attitudes. First, you should use your trim to attempt to get the plane to maintain a straight and level flight path in an upright attitude without having to provide continual adjustments. This usually requires inputting some elevator and aileron trim to achieve the straight and level flight. If you then roll inverted and don't do anything else, a trainer will dive strongly and an aerobatic plane will drop off much more slowly. Both will require some amount of down elevator input to maintain level inverted flight. Remember, if you take a wing planform with a lot of lift, and turn it upside down, its going to lift down instead of up. Your going to see this in real life and have to deal with it and therefore you want to see the SIM behave in the same manner. With knife edge, same thing. Both plane types will need a lot of rudder to maintain level flight. Much more with the trainer than an aerobatic plane. In fact, the trainer may not have a large enough rudder and/or enough rudder throw to maintain level knife edge flight at all. Again, your wing is now vertical and isn't providing any lift in the vertical direction, hence the plane is going to want to drop.

Having said that, most SIMs allow you to adjust some of the design parameters of the plane. You could tailor its flight behavior but I would not recommend it. You want to simulate what you're going to be flying in real life, not something that will fly hands off inverted but crash like crazy when upright.

bikerbc

I would not recomend confusing a beginer with physics of flight . I don't think we should get too deep into setting up the plane untill he gets it flying. I would stick to the basics for now ,like setting the control throws and balance ,

erwabo

Yes I guess I would have to agree. The sim I have doesnt have trim controls. I need to buy and ACTUAL sim controller. I can tell you, just from my days of yesteryear with RC cars, and from handling a few radios in the Hobby shop, I DEFINITELY like the feel of long throws. I actually found a place by me that does training for free without membership and they have trainers and radios there for you to use. You just have to show up. Once I get to fly a bit and learn about the trim controls and all that, I think it will help a ton too so I can tailor my questions more specifically.

bikerbc

Thats great . It looks like you have discovered a gold mine. Often these places just expect you to pay for the fuel that you use. That is if you are using glow trainers .I am not sure about the electrics . I have never seen a trainer that charges anything . It always fees so good to see a new pilot earn his wings and to have any part in that is a great honor .

bikerbc

How are you making out with your Tiger now that you have your engins running? Tigers tend to be tail heavy so don't be surprized if you need to add weight to the nose to get it to balance . Make sure to get a trusted and compitent pilot to go over a pre flight with you and take it up for you the first time to trim it and help you thru the jitters. They are a very nice plane and worth taking care with . What kind of shape is yours in ? Even if it has hanger rash it can be easily repaired and recovered . It can be made to look brand new if you want to spend the time .

erwabo

Im not taking it up until I learn how to fly. I want to make sure I can fly pretty decent before I get it up in the air again for grandpa. As far as the condition...structurally it seems pretty solid. Aesthetically, thats another story. Some trim work and striping needs to be redone, it needs a pilot (which I have) the canopy is really bad. I called the manufacturer and $40 shipped for a new canopy. There are a couple little spots where Monokote is peeling and one tiny hole in the right elevator but small enough that I wouldn't think it would affect flight. I personally would love to rewrap it, but being a novice, I cant imagine applying new MK would go well let alone removing it....But yeah I would love to redo it to bring it back to life.

bikerbc

The canopy is usualy the weak point when redoing them . Some guys just make them from wood and either paint them or cover them . It saves a few bucks . Recovering is not a bad as it looks . Striping is probably the worst part but it comes of not too bad with a bit of heat .

erwabo

Yeah...I might have done that but my 3 year old was " assessing" the plane and said "your plane missing sumptin'" I said "whats it missing?" She said "there's no driver" So I pulled out the old pilot I had and bought some model paint and some decals so our "little project" is to repaint and remount the pilot...so I kinda need to keep a nice plastic see through canopy =)

bikerbc

Well in my opinion Tigers are worth going the extra mile for anyway . I really do like them . I think that is very cool including your son in the project . Many yrs ago my youngest son spent every day after work with me in the shop from the time he could make it up the stairs to my shop .In all that time he neve broke a stick of wood or glued himself to anything .Youngsters can learn so much faster than I can . I miss those days Treasure them while you have them .I don't presently have a Tiger 2 but I have two Tiger 60's .. My old eye's find bigger planes easier to follow in the sky . The Tiger 2 seems a little faster but flys like its on rails. I usually build mine as tail draggers. That is a very common mod . Is yours tricyle or tail dragger ? I almost wish I could help you get it in the air . Watching sombody learn to fly is a wonderfull part of our hobby and watching them learn on a Tiger would be that much more rewarding . Even if you start with a true trainer and graduate to the Tiger which is the root I would recomend . I think the Tiger will be a little fast to start out with but then a lot depends on you and your eyesight ,your reflexes , and the area you have to fly in . It could be done . I just would'nt do it because I like the plane to much and I would not want to risk it .

erwabo

Yeah she likes to do what every her Daddy is doing...i will definitely try to enjoy while she is young. Mine is a tricycle, but I kinda like it cuz the rudder is tied to the wheel so its very easy to steer on the ground =) I will definitely be buying a top wing electric RTF trainer to start and I will have a guy fly the Tiger-60 first and check it out and make sure everything looks good on it. I dont know what to look for yet so I dont want to to risk it like you said. Im only 41, so my eyesite and reflexes are still pretty good! At least for a while I hope...im a very active person, so I hope to stay healthy for some time

bikerbc

Do you know what high wing trainer you are going to go for yet ? Somtimes you are wise to allow your mentor to influence your decision . If it were me I would go for a LT 40 . there are many others . Lots that are bind and fly if that is the way you want to go . The LT 40 comes both ARF or kit style that you can build yourself . With a trainer I think I would just go with an ARF . A Sensi is another popular trainer . Often one of your club members will have a trainer that they will be willing to pass on . When you think about it it seems like a shame to take a nice new shiny plane and put it thru the torture of a new pilot's first few flights. Often they include some spectacular landings . I still have my share . So buying a used one makes sense.

erwabo

Yeah I was looking at a Apprentice S 15e RTF with SAFE Technology...the guy at the Hobby shop recommended. The Club I found actually teaches you to fly on Thursday nights using their trainers and radios...so hopefully I will be pretty decent before trying my own..which would minimize some landings =)

bikerbc

A few of the newer guys at our club have the Apprentice and it seems to work well . They even fly it off floats . Its a pretty good looking little plane . I havent flowen one myself but am sure it flys well . I am not a big fan of the self correcting technology though because it fights you for control of the plane . If you have a good instructor and follow his directions you will do fine .

erwabo

Yeah you are probably right. I have heard of one story where the auto correction was so good, they couldnt bank the plane and it flew itself into a tree.

I gotta say..I am loving the 4 stroke vs the 2 stroke in terms of starting. Its been a week since I fired them up since I have some major garage renovations. The 2 stroke took some tweaking and had to get the choke JUST right, and a few drops of fuel in the carb. The 4 stroke was FIRST try...loving that =)

bikerbc

I actually like 4 stroke motors myself too . I am a big fan of Cubs . I have a few of them and a four stroke and a Cub go together very well . Not much sounds nicer than a Cub purring by with a four stroke on its nose . I think they are a little harder to tune initially though . But once you have them set you should be able to leave them alone .

erwabo

So how does one know, when and engine is properly "tuned?"

Hab

Clean; smooth idle ~ idle, getting it to idle at it's lowest recommended rpm - listen to it, and if it's "burbling" a little as it is at an idle when you get it down there,your low end might need to be leaned out a tad. Entailing, very SMALL turns on the low end needle adjustment like maybe a 1/16th - 1/8th of a turn if needed, and that's a lot, just saying... You may also consider picking yourself up a tack for 4 stroke tuning and even tuning 2 strokes ... But a smooth transition from idle to full when "rolling" the throttle up and not just slamming it from idle to full, with no drastic change in rpm ( increase or decrease) when transitioning is a good "tune". If it does, it usually means the low end / mid range might be leaned out to much, Listen to it, as it's rolling through to full throttle.

Top end rpm,- wot - lean or richen the needle as needed. Again small , turns on the needle. Listening to it as you do. Note any drop or major increase in RPM. A *major* increase ~MAX~ in RPM, means you're leaning it out to much. Bad thing. Don't leave it there too long. If this condition occurs in an audible tone .. "screaming", fatten / richen it back up. If left in this condition for any amount of time, you can overheat it and end up causing damage. ( valve springs). Better to be run in a rich setting, than a lean condition. Running rich, is better for the life of the engine. You like to see a trail when flying and on the stand. But getting a descent tune, is to get a "max" audible rpm ; coming in with the needle; leaning the mix out, while running at a w-o-t setting , ..... then coming back out with the needle - richening; fattening it back up, like a 1/2 a turn from that point. Just don't go to lean with it. It's a 4 stroke. You can damage it beyond just overheating it. Valve train can take a beating if it sees serious rpm. , such as valve springs. The usable range should be in the rpm range of like 12 / 1500 rpm @ idle - 8500 rpm full ~w-o-t. Don't quote me on those #'s exactly. But' it's not a 2 stroke , where it can handle15,000 rpm.

Best to follow the suggested factory needle settings as the starting point. You may find the factory / suggested needle setting, any where from 2 up to 4 turns from being seated as a starting point. Check the engine settings in it's manual. If you need to get back to a ground zero and are unsure and need a starting point such as this, seat the needle ( tightened). then come back out the suggested # of turns as a starting point. This of course is done while it's not running. Just don't over crank the needle when closing. You can damage it's seat. But, get the top end set first before messing with the bottom end ( if in fact it does need adjusting after setting the top) The low is also set while it's running .... at idle. It would require the use of a small regular LONG handle screw driver. Its the small screw in the center of the throttle arm, not the needle. This needle also( the high speed needle) is set; adjusted, while running at a W-O-T setting.

Also, if setting up a 4s, make sure your using the needed blend of fuel it wants. I run YS 4 strokes. YS needs a 20/20 blend of fuel. ( 20% oil / synthetic, 20% nitro-methanol) Not sure of Saito, from what I hear, they burn the same as 2 strokes. 10 -15% blend.
Make sure you're burning a descent plug also. Easy enough to know. If you pull the driver after getting it started and you can hear an audible drop in rpm, plug is done. Swap it for a fresh one.
But as mentioned... a halo genic tach is a great set up tool to add to your field box. Cheap and use AA to power it up.

Hope this gives you some kind of an insight on tuning. May sound a little intimidating to you at first, but once learned, you'll understand what a glo engine
wants and needs.
Happy flying and keep those wings level on approach.

erwabo

Yeah a lot to take in.... The manual says for example on a new engine "do not exceed 4,000 RPM for the first 10 minutes of operation." Does the tach just attach to the crankcase? As far as a trail...im using a 15% blend and the stuff seems to burn so clean, on both the 2 stroke and the 4 stroke that I dont see any smoke at all except for the initial start, after that its smokeless. The 2 stroke whines pretty good with the needle valve in the right place for the engine to start and then I roll it back a bit, but the 4 stroke seems to run pretty rich and sounds really nice. No "burbling" at all...really nice engine..but I dont know if its "tuned" right yet. Still gotta try with your suggestions. The 2 stroke is more finicky...always needs a little help with the start up =)

Hab

Hmmm. far as a trail, Yep, you should be getting somewhat of a trail .. if it isn't visually present ..then you should be getting some residual residue coming out at least. *GUM -burnt oil* for both the 2 and 4. -Stick your hand at the end of the pipe; not on it, while it's running. Don't touch... it gets warm.
Far as the 2 stroke goes with starting, it can be a few things. I just can't ramble off suggestions without knowing of it's condition. (throttle body; veturi , piston liner, ring, head, head gasket- compression ... etc)
But with that, it should be the easier of the two to get running and idling, especially from a beginners standpoint.
Far as a tach goes, halo genic ( light beam) It's just aimed at the prop while running ...http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXPT32&P=ML This is Tower (Hobbico) piece but you should be able to pick one up at your local HS. It reads the prop rpm by aiming it at the prop while running. Simply uses ... 2 AA alkaline bats.

erwabo

Yeah, there is definitely residue coming out, I could feel it getting all over my hand the other day...but no smoke except when it first powered on. Hmm...I ll have to get one of those RPM Tachs, cool little device

erwabo

Well Fellas...my first OFFICIAL flight training (providing weather permits) will be this Thursday! I am going to have someone try out my Tiger-60 for me and im going to see about having it recovered and bringing it back to life as well. Im pretty excited to actually fly, IM sure it will feel much different than a simulator.

Also I have decide im not to fond of the glow plug stick igniter. I have watched online videos and when people light up those glow plugs, they are BRIGHT...mine are never like the online videos even with brand new glow plugs and fully charged stick...and sometimes when I touch the glow plug with the flange pulled back it lights up bright, but as soon as I fully insert it and let go, it goes out....weird.

Going to pick up a good old fashion alligator clip one and a 1.5v battery cell and see if I have better luck. Also after watching how EASY a new OC 60 starts...I think I might invest in one...LOL, mine just doesnt ever start nice without me adding a couple drops of fuel in the carb. I hear 2 stroke should start easier than 4 and I have the opposite, my 4 starts right up now.

Good times

bikerbc

Good luck with your flight training on your Tiger today . .. Don't be to disapointed if the tiger feels a bit to fast for you at this point . Tigers aren't exataly primary trainers . They are are more of a low wing trainer ment for sombody who has already mastered flying a high wing trainer . However they are a fantastic flying plane that is a lot of fun to fly .

erwabo

Thanks...though I doubt I will fly the Tiger tonight. Im going to take it to have it looked at, but Ill probably be using the club trainers and radios. FYI, I also found out...and not sure how this could be but my glow igniter was actually defective, which was a big part of why I wasnt able to quickly start those engines. I got another one, and HUGE difference.

erwabo

So my first flight went very well. I even landed the plane. The instructor said I did very well and said I was as good as someone who had already taken half a dozen lessons or so. I guess the iPad simulator paid off =) A guy is going to help me rebuild my grandpas planes to make them flight worthy again. Im pretty stoked =)

bikerbc

Congratulations on your flight . espially the landing . That is fantastic . You are a natural . You will have your wings in no time .