80" Spitfire setup advice.....
06-06-2015, 09:44 PM
#26
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G-dude, No problem with being sarcastic. I was being over the top trying to make a point. All's well that ends well. Yes, do come fly your Spitfire with us here in West Georgia. One of my clubs has an excellent wide open field with a 600+ foot grass runway, great for large scale planes. I would love to see it in the air when you are ready, 12 months, 24 months from now, or whenever, it doesn't matter when.
06-07-2015, 05:42 AM
#27
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Uggh. Typical millenial. They are coddled so much in school and told how amazing they are they bristle at anyone who doubts their ability. A disagreement is an attack, and praise is normal. They all think they are the smartest, prettiest, fastest, and best. They all think they are special.
Here's the reality. Nobody wished the OP to crash. We predicted it, not wished it. We predicted it because we've seen it, so our experience says that's the most likely scenario. Nobody insulted the OP. We merely pointed out that he's a newbie and not ready for an advanced airplane. That's fact, not meanness. We committed the unforgivable sin of doubting a Millennial's amazingness. Many of them have ruder awakenings coming than losing a model airplane, that's for sure. Yes, there was some sarcasm because it helps get the point across. The OP would do well to toughen up a bit so he can accept the help that is being offered instead of getting his feelings hurt by those who disagree with him.
FWIW, I wish him the best for his Spitfire. It's my favorite WWII plane, and one like his is on my wish list. I genuinely hope he gains the skills he needs before flying it and has a successful maiden and many good flights on it. But if he doesn't wake up and start listening to those who know more than him, the trash bag will indeed be needed.
Here's the reality. Nobody wished the OP to crash. We predicted it, not wished it. We predicted it because we've seen it, so our experience says that's the most likely scenario. Nobody insulted the OP. We merely pointed out that he's a newbie and not ready for an advanced airplane. That's fact, not meanness. We committed the unforgivable sin of doubting a Millennial's amazingness. Many of them have ruder awakenings coming than losing a model airplane, that's for sure. Yes, there was some sarcasm because it helps get the point across. The OP would do well to toughen up a bit so he can accept the help that is being offered instead of getting his feelings hurt by those who disagree with him.
FWIW, I wish him the best for his Spitfire. It's my favorite WWII plane, and one like his is on my wish list. I genuinely hope he gains the skills he needs before flying it and has a successful maiden and many good flights on it. But if he doesn't wake up and start listening to those who know more than him, the trash bag will indeed be needed.
06-07-2015, 10:16 AM
#30
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I have been scratch building a Spit over the last two years . It has a 98" wing span with a DLE 30 in the nose . It has flaps and retratcs , I am down to the final assembly . I have about 2 hours left to go before tests . I have a fair amount of low wing experience with Tigers and planes like that but no time with war birds . 6 of us all started this project together and 2 are already done and have flowen there planes . This helps a lot because the control throws are already figured out . I will have a buddy that has flowen his Spit maiden mine . I have been flying for 30 years but I am still quite nervous about flying my Spit . The guys are saying it flys like a big trainer . However one of them has been dumped twice already sustaining minor damage . Two dead sticks .The landing gear strut attachmemt in the wing tore out once and in the first dead stick it cartwheeled and tore the wing off and cracked things up a bit but not too bad .. We have the dead stick problem cured and all the repairs have been done and my buddy has flowen his Spit several times and he absoutly loves it but still I must admit I am quite worried about the first flight or two . One of the wonderfull things about this hobby is that there is always something new to learn . None of us ever knows it all . We need to get to a point where we know what we don't know .That way we can keep ourselves out of trouble .
Last edited by bikerbc; 06-07-2015 at 10:24 AM.
06-10-2015, 11:11 PM
#31
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"Uggh. Typical millenial. They are coddled so much in school and told how amazing they are they bristle at anyone who doubts their ability. A disagreement is an attack, and praise is normal. They all think they are the smartest, prettiest, fastest, and best. They all think they are special.
Here's the reality. Nobody wished the OP to crash. We predicted it, not wished it. We predicted it because we've seen it, so our experience says that's the most likely scenario. Nobody insulted the OP. We merely pointed out that he's a newbie and not ready for an advanced airplane. That's fact, not meanness. We committed the unforgivable sin of doubting a Millennial's amazingness. Many of them have ruder awakenings coming than losing a model airplane, that's for sure. Yes, there was some sarcasm because it helps get the point across. The OP would do well to toughen up a bit so he can accept the help that is being offered instead of getting his feelings hurt by those who disagree with him."
FWIW, I wish him the best for his Spitfire. It's my favorite WWII plane, and one like his is on my wish list. I genuinely hope he gains the skills he needs before flying it and has a successful maiden and many good flights on it. But if he doesn't wake up and start listening to those who know more than him, the trash bag will indeed be needed. "
ok Jester...... What are we disagreeing about? Do you disagree that I can go from a trainer plane after 3 years, with the help of instructors/ club members build and fly a 80" Spitfire. I am just really not understanding all the negativity on this post!!!! What are you suggesting? Should I spend $800 to buy a 40" warbird Trainer/ tail dragger before my instructor can teach me to fly the 80" Spitfire?
It almost seems that if a fairly new guy comes into this hobby, we get criticized for wanting to actually get reall flight time before our 15 year learning curve.
Here's the reality. Nobody wished the OP to crash. We predicted it, not wished it. We predicted it because we've seen it, so our experience says that's the most likely scenario. Nobody insulted the OP. We merely pointed out that he's a newbie and not ready for an advanced airplane. That's fact, not meanness. We committed the unforgivable sin of doubting a Millennial's amazingness. Many of them have ruder awakenings coming than losing a model airplane, that's for sure. Yes, there was some sarcasm because it helps get the point across. The OP would do well to toughen up a bit so he can accept the help that is being offered instead of getting his feelings hurt by those who disagree with him."
FWIW, I wish him the best for his Spitfire. It's my favorite WWII plane, and one like his is on my wish list. I genuinely hope he gains the skills he needs before flying it and has a successful maiden and many good flights on it. But if he doesn't wake up and start listening to those who know more than him, the trash bag will indeed be needed. "
ok Jester...... What are we disagreeing about? Do you disagree that I can go from a trainer plane after 3 years, with the help of instructors/ club members build and fly a 80" Spitfire. I am just really not understanding all the negativity on this post!!!! What are you suggesting? Should I spend $800 to buy a 40" warbird Trainer/ tail dragger before my instructor can teach me to fly the 80" Spitfire?
It almost seems that if a fairly new guy comes into this hobby, we get criticized for wanting to actually get reall flight time before our 15 year learning curve.
Last edited by Georgiadude2012; 06-10-2015 at 11:17 PM.
06-11-2015, 02:15 AM
#32
Jester's showing some frustration and I understand the reason for it. As many, me included, have said, you don't have any low wing experience and, even with an instructor, it's going to come back and bite you as well as damage/destroy your plane. If you look at how a person progresses thought the requirements of getting a license to fly a full sized plane, they don't go from a Cessna 150 or 172 to a Learjet or Dreamliner. They have to go through the steps:
1) simple plane( i.e Cessna 150 or 172 are most common) under visual flight rules
2) simple plane with retracts or low wing with fixed gear under visual flight rules
3) low wing with retracts under visual flight rules
4) the above under instrument flight rules
5) multi-engine under VFR
6) multi-engine under IFR
7) Commercial
This is done so that the pilot can get experience with the various systems without getting them all thrown at him at once. The same goes for R/C models. As size, speed, weight and complexity increase, so do the chances of a mechanical or electrical problem that the pilot must be able to deal with. Without a solid base of knowledge and practice to fall back on, even a slight problem will be unrecoverable. Remember the plane that ditched in the Hudson River? Would someone without all of the training and experience IN THAT AIRCRAFT TYPE have been able to save all the passengers? Probably not when you consider that all it would have taken is one wingtip or engine hitting the water and the plane would have cartwheeled. The pilot was branded a hero since everyone got off the plane without injury. Another example would be an F-14 pilot from Fighter Squadron 1. He had to land his plane on one main and the nose gear due to the other main failing to properly lock down. He not only landed it on the moving flight deck of the USS Kitty Hawk, he did so without causing further damage to the plane. The faulty main gear was replaced and the plane was flying again two days later. So, the question is how does all of that relate to you and the Spitfire? Very simply, you are looking at an aircraft with low stability compared to the trainer you're used to that is much heavier, faster and more complex. One mistake by you, reacting to the plane like you did your trainer, or an engine or radio component failing could put your plane into the ground. Take the time, spend the cash and get some experience with a low wing sport plane before you think about putting that Spitfire together. It will still be there in a year or two but, if you rush things, the odds are it will be in a garbage bag long before then
1) simple plane( i.e Cessna 150 or 172 are most common) under visual flight rules
2) simple plane with retracts or low wing with fixed gear under visual flight rules
3) low wing with retracts under visual flight rules
4) the above under instrument flight rules
5) multi-engine under VFR
6) multi-engine under IFR
7) Commercial
This is done so that the pilot can get experience with the various systems without getting them all thrown at him at once. The same goes for R/C models. As size, speed, weight and complexity increase, so do the chances of a mechanical or electrical problem that the pilot must be able to deal with. Without a solid base of knowledge and practice to fall back on, even a slight problem will be unrecoverable. Remember the plane that ditched in the Hudson River? Would someone without all of the training and experience IN THAT AIRCRAFT TYPE have been able to save all the passengers? Probably not when you consider that all it would have taken is one wingtip or engine hitting the water and the plane would have cartwheeled. The pilot was branded a hero since everyone got off the plane without injury. Another example would be an F-14 pilot from Fighter Squadron 1. He had to land his plane on one main and the nose gear due to the other main failing to properly lock down. He not only landed it on the moving flight deck of the USS Kitty Hawk, he did so without causing further damage to the plane. The faulty main gear was replaced and the plane was flying again two days later. So, the question is how does all of that relate to you and the Spitfire? Very simply, you are looking at an aircraft with low stability compared to the trainer you're used to that is much heavier, faster and more complex. One mistake by you, reacting to the plane like you did your trainer, or an engine or radio component failing could put your plane into the ground. Take the time, spend the cash and get some experience with a low wing sport plane before you think about putting that Spitfire together. It will still be there in a year or two but, if you rush things, the odds are it will be in a garbage bag long before then
Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 06-11-2015 at 02:17 AM.
06-11-2015, 06:56 AM
#33
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Hi!
I can understand the desire to build and fly a god looking scale bird likte the Spitfire (I,m building one too a Bryan Taylor 84" MK9) , but As many of us have said you have much more posibilties to succed in flying it if you 1. Have more building experience first from other planes so you know what the important steps are in building a plane. 2. Have more flying experience from low winged, faster flying, aerobatic planes. Being capble of flying/handling an aerobatic or pylon racing plane helps a lot when it comes to handling a scale plane.
I can understand the desire to build and fly a god looking scale bird likte the Spitfire (I,m building one too a Bryan Taylor 84" MK9) , but As many of us have said you have much more posibilties to succed in flying it if you 1. Have more building experience first from other planes so you know what the important steps are in building a plane. 2. Have more flying experience from low winged, faster flying, aerobatic planes. Being capble of flying/handling an aerobatic or pylon racing plane helps a lot when it comes to handling a scale plane.
Last edited by jaka; 06-11-2015 at 06:58 AM.
06-11-2015, 07:24 AM
#34
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One of the problems you will face is getting into the air. If it is a semi scale version with a wider track and shorter legs this will make it easier but it is still NOT EASY>
You will have two issues to deal with. Keeping it straight and stopping it nosing over. It is worth considering fitting a gyro on rudder to help keep it straight. You need to switch this out as soon as it gets airborne.
Stopping it nosing over requires some up elevator. How much and for how long is a trail and error job. It is better to have it nose over than to drag it off the ground before it has flying speed. The problem is worse on grass.
You will have two issues to deal with. Keeping it straight and stopping it nosing over. It is worth considering fitting a gyro on rudder to help keep it straight. You need to switch this out as soon as it gets airborne.
Stopping it nosing over requires some up elevator. How much and for how long is a trail and error job. It is better to have it nose over than to drag it off the ground before it has flying speed. The problem is worse on grass.
06-12-2015, 05:28 AM
#35
I don't see where World Models specifies a torque value for the required servos. In a model that size I'd definitely like a Heavy Duty servo on the rudder (because of the added strain from ground handling the tail wheel) . The 645MGs are great for that application and are my go-to servo for gas models.
The photo is an 80" Giant Super Sportster - similar in weight to your Spit - with dual S9001 elevator servos on a 6v system with short, heavy, zero-slop ball link rods.. So I am "lifting" 144 oz-in to your 44 oz-in on a single servo elevator. It's a little bit of overkill - but gives crisper and faster response to control movements.
You might notice the "weakness" when you're pushing a lot of air over the control surfaces at high speed. What a servo feels at 40 mph is less than half of what it feels at 60 mph. There is actually a formula that will tell you the size servo you need.
The length and width is of each control surface - if multiple surfaces are on one servo remember to double the result.
torque req't (oz.in.)= (length)(square of width)(square of speed)(deflection angle)/430,000
The photo is an 80" Giant Super Sportster - similar in weight to your Spit - with dual S9001 elevator servos on a 6v system with short, heavy, zero-slop ball link rods.. So I am "lifting" 144 oz-in to your 44 oz-in on a single servo elevator. It's a little bit of overkill - but gives crisper and faster response to control movements.
You might notice the "weakness" when you're pushing a lot of air over the control surfaces at high speed. What a servo feels at 40 mph is less than half of what it feels at 60 mph. There is actually a formula that will tell you the size servo you need.
The length and width is of each control surface - if multiple surfaces are on one servo remember to double the result.
torque req't (oz.in.)= (length)(square of width)(square of speed)(deflection angle)/430,000
