Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > Beginners
Reload this Page >

SIG Kadet Senior for first plane?

Notices
Beginners Beginners in RC start here for help.

SIG Kadet Senior for first plane?

Old 01-12-2017, 11:42 AM
  #26  
JohnBuckner
My Feedback: (1)
 
JohnBuckner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kingman, AZ
Posts: 10,441
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

Yes a HP sometimes the simplest of solutions are the best. And yes I like the idea of cantilevered rails for the servos etc . I have two oldtimers an eighty inch Playboy and a Goldberg Sailplane that were designed with this in mind only in this case with a removable firewall. Heck ya even the popular for a short while, Aircore Trainers use a similar scheme.


Also your description of grafting new front ends to an airplane reminds one of how easy it is in the case of a Senior to do attractive cowls. This especially how easy it is to do a new and much more attractive front end over clunky fiberglass slide overs. Just three blocks epoxied on (cheeks, chin and a nose ring) then a pinch of sandpaper and walla' you find a pretty front end in there somewhere.

John

Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Senior kaydet landing gear (2).JPG
Views:	2852
Size:	64.4 KB
ID:	2196466   Click image for larger version

Name:	Senior Kaydet Catalina C (10).JPG
Views:	2649
Size:	78.9 KB
ID:	2196467  
Old 01-12-2017, 01:16 PM
  #27  
HighPlains
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Over da rainbow, KS
Posts: 5,087
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

The early ignition days did most likely originate the power pod concept, but that was way way before my time. You mention the Aircore series which had the radio installed on a "cartridge", as I recall they always had patent pend on each of their ads.

However, if you go back to the late 60's there was a parasol class II design presented in Flying Models around 1967 or so that used that concept. It was designed by one of about three prolific designers not name Ziroli. Bryon or Bruce Peterson I think without looking. I was always amazed how many designs came out of a small area in Massachusetts ever month.
Old 01-12-2017, 02:21 PM
  #28  
ratshooter
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Burleson, TX
Posts: 523
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Hey John thats a good idea on the Senior. My buddy built a homebuilt airplane called a Falco and the rear of the fuselage bolts on. He had to take it apart to move it from his work shop to the hanger and it was too long with tail attached to move it down the road. Every time I ride in it it gives me the Heebie Jeebies thinking about the rear of the plane being held on with a bunch of little bolts. And this is a hot, fast airplane with a 200+ HP engine.

I wonder if you could cut the control rods where the fuselage separates and add rare earth magnets and that would eliminate having to remove them from the servo arms? Just thinking out load here.

https://www.google.com/search?q=falc...pDCcoQ_AUIBigB

Last edited by ratshooter; 01-12-2017 at 02:26 PM.
Old 01-12-2017, 07:17 PM
  #29  
JohnBuckner
My Feedback: (1)
 
JohnBuckner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kingman, AZ
Posts: 10,441
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ratshooter

I wonder if you could cut the control rods where the fuselage separates and add rare earth magnets and that would eliminate having to remove them from the servo arms? Just thinking out load here.
Actually that would be very easy I believe with the use of the right hardware and the key is the Sullivan Quick Release Ball Joint assemblies. These are available for either 2-56 or 4-40 rod ends they feature a sliding ring that is spring loaded and this provide instant release or reinstall.

If you look at the two photos of the tail of one of my Seniors (which has a V tail) you can see that there are two sets of pushrods back to the tail, the uppers are for flying with radio control and the lowers are for flying as a controlline airplane and the idea is to make the changeover very quickly. These ball joints make that possible and for simply removing a tail section quickly for transport would be a piece of cake with the Sullivan quick release ball joints.



John
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	turbine cadet a1.jpg
Views:	2820
Size:	2.47 MB
ID:	2196568   Click image for larger version

Name:	turbine cadet a2.jpg
Views:	3084
Size:	2.60 MB
ID:	2196569  
Old 01-12-2017, 10:38 PM
  #30  
LXbuilder
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Innisfil, ON, CANADA
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Wow, that was creative thinking. Thanks for the tip.
Old 01-12-2017, 10:42 PM
  #31  
LXbuilder
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Innisfil, ON, CANADA
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by JohnBuckner
Hi LXbuilder Just a thought on carrying the Senior in a coupe or small car. The wing either the 78" kit version or the 80" Arf version is not normally the problem when over the passenger seat or along the side.

As one of the fellows mentioned above the fuselage is the real problem in a small vehicle. So here is the solution one of my past sudents come up with for his Senior about five ears ago:



Sorry for the mistake and the double post of on photo.

Also Kudos to you LXBuilder for considering the two stroke glow engine. Often these days two stroke is touted as a bad choice when in fact many can be wonderful choices. I have done Seniors with no engines, engines up to 1.0 cubic inch and as small as .35 cubic inch, up to four engines and even up to a 13 lb thrust jet turbine.

Back to that .35 though (that is a modern OS .35 AX) Yes it is even smaller than Sigs official recommendation But I still keep that ship as my main go trainer for mentoring the fellows it is simply a superb combination.

John

Wow, that was creative. Thanks for the tip.
Old 01-13-2017, 10:12 AM
  #32  
ratshooter
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Burleson, TX
Posts: 523
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Hey John. I gotta give you credit for the pushrod trick. I don't think I even knew about those. I would like to see a whole picture of that plane if you have it. I have seen lots of the planes you fly but not that one that I can remember. And a control line Senior. Who would have thunk it?

I started off with control line about 1970. Lots of Li'l Whizards plus Flitestreaks and Ringmaster. And of course the Cox models. I have an 049 CL model now built for my youngest son that we never flew. But durn if I can remember the name of it.
Old 01-13-2017, 06:30 PM
  #33  
JohnBuckner
My Feedback: (1)
 
JohnBuckner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kingman, AZ
Posts: 10,441
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

Ratshooter here is a direct link to the Sullivan quick release ball joints:

https://www.sullivanproducts.com/Pro...xMainFrame.htm

Here is a photo of the bellcrank assembly that I built for the airplane and had to plan for a hundred pound pull test and the actual pull test:

Will add a link of early flights flown controlline and RC in a moment.

John

The Turbine Cadet flown via controlline:

https://video.search.yahoo.com/searc...a&action=click


The Turbine Cadet flown via RC

https://video.search.yahoo.com/searc...80&action=view
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	turbine cadet 6.jpg
Views:	2734
Size:	2.45 MB
ID:	2196690   Click image for larger version

Name:	Turbine cadet controlline.jpg
Views:	3226
Size:	3.46 MB
ID:	2196691  

Last edited by JohnBuckner; 01-13-2017 at 06:41 PM.
Old 01-13-2017, 07:05 PM
  #34  
Tom Nied
 
Tom Nied's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
Posts: 2,226
Received 21 Likes on 20 Posts
Default

Anybody know why he calls them Cadets, with a "C"?
Old 01-14-2017, 09:03 PM
  #35  
52larry52
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ocala, Florida
Posts: 1,284
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

John is quite a guy. He is an outstanding builder and flyer, and is a credit to the aero modeling hobby. In my book, he has earned the right to spell kadet anyway he wants.
Old 01-16-2017, 03:57 PM
  #36  
Tom Nied
 
Tom Nied's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
Posts: 2,226
Received 21 Likes on 20 Posts
Default

OK, that's fine for your book. Why does he spell it wrong?
Old 01-16-2017, 05:30 PM
  #37  
52larry52
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ocala, Florida
Posts: 1,284
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Let's see...maybe the "K" is missing from his keypad, or his spellcheck makes him do it, or ....well I guess I just don't know! How about it John, what's with the "C" ??
Old 01-18-2017, 07:48 PM
  #38  
JohnBuckner
My Feedback: (1)
 
JohnBuckner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kingman, AZ
Posts: 10,441
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LXbuilder
Wow, that was creative thinking. Thanks for the tip.

If you are still reading this thread LXbuilder Here is another possible solution to the problems of transporting any Senior. This is another of mine that was given to me two maybe three years ago by a good friend that built this giant something over 25 year ago. Its a giant bash of the Senior with a wingspan of 122 inchs and a chord of 19.5 inchs I have no clue to the weight. The reason he gifted this airplane to me is he is getting on in years it was becoming much more of a chore to fly and transport and he knew I would keep it going. I get it on down to the my second club (float club) at the London Bridge at least twice a year and he gets to see her fly.

Its a pretty increditable airplane and has huge dedicated flaps and it simply the slowest flying senior I have ever seen.

Anyway back to the thing about break down for transportation even though that horrendous 122 inch single piece wing works in a trailer the tail section made things difficult this especially so on a float plane so his solution is to simply make the tail feather assembly removable with three 1/4 20 wing bolts. Removing two clevis and three bolts makes transport and storage much easier. All it really took was just a ply base plate under the stab.

He always called it the Bushwhacker Senior Grande so that's what I call it.



John
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	20140408_103409.jpg
Views:	2805
Size:	1.93 MB
ID:	2197276   Click image for larger version

Name:	Senior Cadet Grande.jpg
Views:	3063
Size:	2.38 MB
ID:	2197277   Click image for larger version

Name:	Senior Cadet Grande 1.jpg
Views:	2870
Size:	2.17 MB
ID:	2197278   Click image for larger version

Name:	Senior Cadet Grande 3.jpg
Views:	3619
Size:	2.39 MB
ID:	2197279  
Old 01-18-2017, 08:51 PM
  #39  
Tom Nied
 
Tom Nied's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Queen Creek, Arizona
Posts: 2,226
Received 21 Likes on 20 Posts
Default

Yeah, it's a Kadet, says it on the vertical stabilizer.
Old 01-19-2017, 06:01 PM
  #40  
LXbuilder
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Innisfil, ON, CANADA
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

That "Bushwhacker Senior Grande" is one nice airplane thanks for sharing. And yeah I'm hanging around these pages learning all I can from you guys. Thanks.
Old 01-19-2017, 07:42 PM
  #41  
JohnBuckner
My Feedback: (1)
 
JohnBuckner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kingman, AZ
Posts: 10,441
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

Thanks LXbuilder, you are welcome and I will pass on the appreciation of that great old airplane to the original builder. I am sure he will be pleased

John
Old 01-20-2017, 08:19 AM
  #42  
52larry52
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ocala, Florida
Posts: 1,284
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Hay John, What size floats does a Kadet Senior need? I am looking to put floats on my Kubdet this spring. My Kubdet (a fake Cub) is a tank weighing in at 12 lbs and I have a pair of 48" floats set aside for it. What do you think? P.S. The Bushwacker is cool.
Old 01-20-2017, 08:37 PM
  #43  
JohnBuckner
My Feedback: (1)
 
JohnBuckner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Kingman, AZ
Posts: 10,441
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes on 10 Posts
Default

Hey there larry I do have some thoughts on what works well on the Seniors. I have set up four or five seniors of my own and even more of them of friends and students.

With a typical Sig Kits usually come in at under seven pounds and the Sig arfs just a tad more. The CMP Seniors (called Super Seniors) that were sold during that long period that Sig had none during their change in ownership actually were coming in as high as 11.5 pounds. All the above I am talking about without any mods to speak of and typical engines and on wheels.

Now Kit bashed and or heavy mods as you know can sure build weight. My Quad Cadet when on floats is just under fourteen pounds The Catalina Cadet with a full load of 128 ounces of gasoline hits 17 pounds and the Turbine Cadet on floats with 8 ounces of glow fuel and 64 ounces of kerosene Is right at 15 pounds.

Larry your Kubdet at 12 pounds will do quite well with a typical 48 inch floats in fact its likely thats even more than necessary. I have always preferred that if I error in choosing float size/displacement that's it much better to error to large.

The smallest I have ever used on a light Senior is 32 inch butt this can be tricky and its very easy to bury one of the bows when making a taxi turn back down wind.

The pictures are some of the floats I use, these being on varous Seniors.



The Yellow floats on the far left are floats by the builder of the Bushwhacker and my second pair, he produced plans and there quite a few sets have been built around this region. They are 45 inchs long and on the Bushwhacker that combo I think is at least 23 pounds. The black pair are 42 inchs long and ones I whacked out of foam and sheeted The have considerably less buoyancy than the 45 inchers but do the job adequately on the Quad Cadet. The next silver pair are 36 inchers (in this case Goldberg kit) and my go to float for the light weight Seniors. The last silver pair on the right are the 32 inchers, ones a little short for the Seniors.

John
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	20170120_112427.jpg
Views:	2589
Size:	2.76 MB
ID:	2197576  
Old 01-21-2017, 08:04 AM
  #44  
52larry52
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ocala, Florida
Posts: 1,284
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

OK, Thanks John I needed conformation that the 48" floats weren't "way too big". They look alright when set under the finished Kubdet but a little voice was telling me they should be on a quarter scale Cub. I have a 1/4 scale J-3 but I need much more float flying experience before I will even think about float flying it (call me Chicken of the Sea). I have a float set up built for the Goldberg Anniversary Cub (bashed to Super Cub 95) that I built last fall. It is all done except for covering and cowl painting. When I cover those floats I will do the 48" ones also. I need to fab some aluminum mounts and a water rudder. There is no end to the projects is there.

Last edited by 52larry52; 01-21-2017 at 08:07 AM.

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.