P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

You are correct. It is rule #8 under the General rules. It states "I will not consume alcoholic beverages prior to, nor during, participation in any model operations."

It doesn't say anything about when you are done flying.

Mike in DC

Check out [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/What_is_a_guy_supposed_to_do%3F%3F/m_1450092/tm.htm]what's a guy supposed to do[/link] for an example of how dangerous a club can be, without any drinking (or at least it's not mentioned).

So, I'd have to say, honestly, I might join. I suspect every club has flyers that scare me. Are the pits far enough from the flight line that I can be comfortable when they are flying? How crowded is the club? Can I find time to fly between their flights, or are they always in the air? How good are they as pilots? How often do they show up? The fact that the drinkers don't drink at the AMA club makes me think they are probably pretty responsible guys. Are they just having one beer, or do they drink many and get boisterous and uninhibited? You make it sound like they have one hand on the transmitter and the other on a beer can, but perhaps they are the type that stay all day, and only pop one after they're done flying.

I guess what I'm saying is that it would just be one factor. Personally, model airplanes scare me. I don't turn my back and relax near the flight line just because the pilot is not drinking. There are a ton of reasons why pilots lose control.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

O.K., that's funny.

I think it's funny that people get so worried about alcohol. I can't wait for the AMA to follow what some of the states are doing, and not limiting the DUI laws to booze, but expanding them to include just about ANY drug. Alot of the OTC drugs fall into the category of "get in wreck and it's in your system, you are guilty". Just something to think about.

CafeenMan

Mike - Yes, I agree. I'm not going to air all my club's dirty laundry, but it's the most unsafe club I've ever belonged to. Just imagine' "retirement community" and possible associated hazards and then add to that the problems you have when there is no safety officer and people put totally un-airworthy pieces of junk in the air.

I never turn my back on the flight line and tend to stand behind barriers at all times. Now drop a drink in a few of these guys and the chances for really bad things happening increases dramatically over the problems we already have.

I make tons of mistakes flying and I crash too often, but if I drank, it would be even worse. I fly safely as far as people are concerned - I keep my planes far away from the pits and the flight line. The only things at risk are my planes, the turf and my pocketbook.

CafeenMan

I realize I'm extreme in my views about alcohol in general, but I stand by my comments about drinking and flying. But I agree that things get taken to stupid extremes. I'll try to be less hostile now (must be the cafeen )

Dewey2

My Feedback: (24)

i won't fly at my club if their not drunk . they fly better that way. safer drunk don't know why but they only crash when they run out of drinks.

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

You are entitled to your views. I was trying to make a point, you just helped me get to my post about the direction things are going.

For the record I agree with much of your position, I don't drink when I fly, or prior to, or at the field for that matter. However, I would not object to someone having A beer (note the "A") if it were not agains the AMA rules.

By the way, now that the Platte interview is done, when can we expect the next one???

CafeenMan

Did you post questions for Dave? If so, then you saw where I asked for suggestions for the next person. I've e-mailed two people and haven't heard back from them. I'll try them again and if I don't hear back I'll move to the next name on the list.

The main thing is that I've been building a Stik for almost a year. Normally I build a new model about every two months. I can't remember ever taking this long to complete a project. I keep getting distracted and I really want to get it finished so I haven't been pushing the interviews too much. The last one was more time-consuming than I expected.

So I guess my answer is that I don't know.

MikeL

My Feedback: (3)

I'm in agreement with Mike in DC on the fact that there are plenty of people out there that are hazardous with their models while stone sober. If the issue is that alcohol slows reactions and reduces a person's ability to make good judgments, then the issue isn't really alcohol at all. It's poor reactions and poor judgment. Should we allow people who exhibit those tendencies to fly? Probably not, but good luck stopping them.

Alcohol does bring strong reactions to the surface for many people. It can destroy families, ruin lives, and kill. It is a sensitive subject. At the same time it's not reasonable to paint all alcohol consumption in the same light. There's use and there's abuse, and those simply are not the same things.

The reason alcohol can't be consumed at AMA fields while flying is because they must prohibit it for insurance reasons. If it's not an AMA field then that judgment needs to be made by the people who fly there. There are very few things in life that can't be done in moderation and in a safe manner. It's not a black and white issue, and we shouldn't attempt to paint it as such. That does a disservice to all of us.

jessh1969

My Feedback: (1)

Cafeenman...

"Caffeine: Psychological Effects, Use and Abuse

Sanford Bolton, Ph.D. and Gary Null, M.S.

Home

Note: The information on this website is not a substitute for
diagnosis and treatment by a qualified, licensed professional.

ABSTRACT

Caffeine, probably the most widely used drug, affects the psychological state of those who consume it. Abuse results in symptoms of caffeinism which include agitation, disorientation and a syndrome which may be mistaken for anxiety/neurosis. It is a habit-forming drug in which tolerance develops. It affects sleep in a dose related manner which is dependent on the daily caffeine intake, i.e., high users have less effect. Its central nervous system stimulation can cause pleasant effects with improved attention and concentration at lower doses. At high doses, the reverse may occur. Used judiciously, it may be a useful therapy in the treatment of hyperkinetic children. These and other effects of caffeine are discussed in this review article."

http://www.garynull.com/Documents/CaffeineEffects.htm

Does "anti-alcohol" mean that you are opposed to alcohol use by responsible people?? I mean, really, the problem is very simple....Responsible people are responsible and would not drink and fly...they might drink then fly, or fly, or drink, but not at the same time

You don't like alcohol, fine. I can respect that, but you need to be more specific about the fact that you dislike misuse of alcohol. I get REALLY tired of all the liberal drivel absolving people from personal responsiblity, and blaming it on the alcohol, or the drugs, or their poor economic backgrounds...boo freakin hoo....

If I went out to a club and they were sitting on the flightline drinking beer, or shots of tequila, or smoking dope, I wouldn't want to be a part of that...but to sweep a BIG WIDE brush and classify everyone the same?

Sorry, I'll get off my soapbox now

Jess

zetor

My Feedback: (2)

I wonder if marajuana would make a person fly slow and paranoid.

CafeenMan

I don't like being around people who drink. I find them to be really obnoxious. That's my personal opinion about alcohol in general and I'm keeping it separate from the issue of drinking and flying.

I think that's what I said - responsible people don't fly if they've been drinking. I don't care at what exact moment they drink - it's if they're under the influence when they're operating something that can hurt other people.

I'm not a liberal - I'm a fascist. Yes, I am sick of people who don't take responsibility for their actions. The last screwdriver I bought didn't specifically warn me not to jam it in my eye. If I do jam it in my eye, suing the manufacturer will not be part of the follow-up plan. Maybe I'll go the hospital and maybe I'll learn not to jam screwdrivers in my eyes.

I want to get a T-shirt that says, "You are responsible for my behavior."

I pretty much don't care what people do as long as they are not endangering others or doing things that infringe on their rights. For example, anybody who has something to say has a right to say it. But if they've got a bullhorn in front of my house, then they're infringing on my rights and they need to find someplace else to get their message across.

So bringing this back to alcohol. No, I do not like it. But I also would never tell anyone they don't have a right to drink or try to prevent them from drinking unless I believed that the consequences of their drinking would affect someone else adversely. If they want to sit on a fence and drop acid, eat pcp and drink jack daniels, it's their problem. If they start flying an r/c plane in my vicinity then it becomes my problem. Hope that clears it up a little.

- Paul

gitterdun

My Feedback: (1)

According to the guys I know that fly And they all like their Beer Flying is a pretty cool high in it self but when their done for the day its time for a beer ! Now I have not been out there yet flying all day on a nice hot sunny day And I love my beer ( The hotter it is the more I like Um) but it will be ok

FHHuber

I'm not even going to read the other responses.
***********

Flying an R/C aircraft while drinking is just as stupid as drinking and driving. You have control of a device which is capable of killing someone if not properly handled. There's enough problems for most people without adding the lost coordination, loss of good judgement and loss of perception, that comes with drinking.

STUPID STUPID STUPID!

It may be a strech... but, its been applied to operation of boats and off road vehicles. It may be possible to apply DWI/OWI laws to powered models! (that would be one for a lawyer to research... but do you want to be the test case?)

gus

CafeenMan, et al.

People have different skills, talents, and tolerances. An overcast day might make a person with colour-blindness unable to perceive depth as well as they would on a sunny day, but he is still perfectly able to fly. A person with athritis may have more painful, and less dexterous fingers on a cold day. A person with a cold might be "zoned" out by the asprin. A person who was kept awake last night by a baby might be mentally drained. These are all things wich affect a person's ability o fly.

We trust that a person who's capacity is diminished beyond some "common-sense" level will refrain from flying, but it IS only a trust level. An expert flyer with 1 beer in him will probably be far safer than a "average" guy with none.

As long as a person is more capable than that common sense margin, there is no reason to believe that there is a problem. Once a person is not able to maintain that minimum level of competence, then they are under the influence of colour-blindness/athritis/cold/etc.

Now, everyone is affected by alcohol, and it IS true that sufficient alcohol will reduce your effective competency to an ape-like level, but it is a PROCESS, not an ABSOLUTE. One sip of beer does not make you an ape.

Ruling out Alcohol at the field is somewhat sensible, but only to remove the temptation to the few people who would probably disregard the rule anyway unless it is strictly enforced. The rest of the people are common-sensicle enough to not have too much.

Targeting alcohol alone without specifying the extent to which the person is affected by the alcohol is narrow minded.

If you are so adverse to alcohol pre-flying then you should not be allowed to fly when you have a cold, when you have had cough syrup, if you are colour-blind, if it is windy, if you are in a wheel-chair, if you are tired, if you are grumpy, if you are turned on by the sexy-girl with the Avistar, etc. There is SOO much that we willingly let happen to ourselves that affects our flying ability that we simply would not be able to let ourselves fly if everything was a absolute.

So, My opinion is as follows: If you think it is wrong to fly after a drink, then don't. I feel it is just fine for me to have a beer at lunch (but not two), and go flying afterwards, so I do. For all the reasons you may think my abilities are diminished by that beer, I can tell you there are factors in your metabolism that make incapacitate you to a greater or lesser degree.

Bottom line: What is the price of fun? When is it that safety is compromised too much?

Answer me that!

gus

jessh1969

My Feedback: (1)

I'm not a liberal - I'm a fascist. Yes, I am sick of people who don't take responsibility for their actions. The last screwdriver I bought didn't specifically warn me not to jam it in my eye. If I do jam it in my eye, suing the manufacturer will not be part of the follow-up plan. Maybe I'll go the hospital and maybe I'll learn not to jam screwdrivers in my eyes[/size]

Cafeenman,

LMAO ! I think we can agree on that. I just happen to think that not ALL people who drink are obnoxious. No doubt some are (maybe even alot). Personally I don't drink or do drugs since I grew up in a house full of it, and was always terrified that the police were gonna come and take my parents away...so I am TOO straight and narrow. My wife is always telling me to loosen up...!QUOT!I am loosened up!QUOT! is my typical response...

Lets sum it up

A - Drinking AND flying = STUPID
B - Drinking responsibly = Personal choice
C - Flying = Super Cool

Technically, what is a Fascist?

Jess

CafeenMan

Short answer = My way or the highway.

jessh1969

My Feedback: (1)

Well, dang....I am the "Dictator" around my house...guess I am a fascist and didn't even know it! That's a good name to put on the side of my new cub...."The Flying Fascist"....

Jess

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

From Websters;

Fascism: a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and race above the individual, and that stands for centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.

CafeenMan

Would look better on a Jungmeister with swastikas.

CafeenMan

Hmm... sounds a lot like, "my way or the highway."

jessh1969

My Feedback: (1)

Yeah....a Cub is not very intimidating, plus anyone that made me mad could outrun it (even w/o spilling their beer, which they are drinking 'cause they are NOT gonna fly)

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

I think it's kind of, "my way, or the highway, and give me all your stuff."

MadScientist

Hey guys,

Isn't the issue the possible degradation of judgment and reaction times? In any activity that requires these skills at top performance, like skiing, RC flying, target shooting, well, you get the idea, I never drink or consume anything that would affect me negatively. For many people, this could be as little as one beer. After the activity ends, it's another story. As for flying with people who are actively drinking, I wouldn't go near the place, as I find it dangerous enough to fly next to sober people as it is. Just ask yourself this question:

Is it a safer practice to drink and fly RC at the same time, or not to drink and fly?

dr_wogz

My Feedback: (3)

Just to toss this salad a little more...

Beer up here is typically 5%.

From what I remeber, US beer is somewhat less, like 2% - 4%

--------------

Again, people who show up at teh feild, and crack a beer as they assemble their plane, and one consecutively though out teh day.. baaaad

Peopel who crack a beer during their 'lunch break (and I mean a break, like an hour, with food & conversation).. Not bad

People who crack a beer after their day's flying.. no probs.


We did have a few at our feild who all took a walk into the woods. they all came back a little slanty eyed, happier, and with a craving for sugary munchies....

Did we ding them??

You bet.