msu68stang

My Feedback: (7)

I have been flying an Eagle II for about 6 months now. I've put probably about 50 or so flights on it. I have a new plane that is broken in and ready to fly. Controls all go the right way (I've checked about 20 times). My only concern is that it is a low wing and a tail dragger both of which I have never flown before. I really want to get it up in the air but my instructor is a commercial pilot and doesn't have much time to help. I know I'm asking for it what should I do and what differences should I look for between the two planes.

Chris

KidVermin

My Feedback: (3)

Can't tell the difference unless you tell us what the new plane is.
There's quite a bit of difference between a Rambler and a Dazzler. The tail draggers often times require a little right rudder input. Just practice taxi and false take-off till you get used to it. If you can accept possibly losing it then go for it. My vote would be to wait till somebody can trim it out in the air for you.

msu68stang

My Feedback: (7)

It's a black horse super air. The controls throws are set pretty low i think E - 15 mm A - 10mm and R - 30mm

siclick33

I don't really see what the big deal is about low wing planes. If you can handle your trainer then this will be no problem.

Taildraggers can be a little tricky. Be prepared to use the rudder more on take off than you are used to. It also helps if you have a steerable tailwheel.

msu68stang

My Feedback: (7)

Yeah the tail wheel is steerable

ifixairplanes

My Feedback: (9)

i went from high wing to tail dragger by myself, heres what i did maybe it will help you: take new plane and your trainer to the field. fire up the trainer and warm yourself up for a few flights. Next fire up your new plane. make sure you have checked throws, balances, engine tuning, etc. taxi around a little, get the feel of the ground. remember to hold up elevator while taxing. OK line up for take off. Hold full up elevator and smoothly (count "1 mississippi) go to full throttle. taildraggers want to veer left because of torque and "p" factor, so be ready to SMOOTHLY add right rudder. ease off up elevator as you gain speed and let the tail up, as it comes up feed in up elevator to start your climb. Take it to a safe altitude and trim it for staright and level.

OK thats take off, my first attempt i fed in too much rudder, overcompensated, through in too much rudder, abort abort!! i fishtailed down the runway. 2 nd attempt i only touched the right rudder and stayed straight.

Landing: fly the pattern a few times, fly it SLOW high up, so you can see how it flies at landing speeds. do a few stalls to see if a wings dips or if it mushes ahead. Come around to downwind and gives your self room to bleed off speed and reduce power, about 1/3 throttle should do it, turn base, as you do, cut throttle to idle and set glide angle as planes approaches the runway, use throttle if you need to to maintain a good slow pace, dont stall!! float the plane about a foot above the runway and slowly flare and bleed off speed and touchdown!

If you mastered the trainer, it wont be too difficult, i did it!

sean

phread59

CS I would highly reccomend you let someone you trust give it it's maiden flight. There probably is nothing wrong with it. However trimming a new plane can be very difficult. I always let someone I trust take every new bird of mine up. If there is a problem his reflexes and skill can bring it back in one piece. Afterwards I would say have at it. Just remeber it will come in a little hotter. And it goes exactly where you tell it too. It will not self correct. You must fly iy all the way down. To take off go to the end of the runway. Point'er into the wind and slowly accelerate with down elevator until you are rolling. Let off the elevator untill you are going near full bore and it should take off. You may need some up elevator. Be sure to use the rudder to correct your path. Try taxiing around a few times until you get the tail off the ground. And let the plaNE SLOW AND COME TO A STOP It will help your confidence. Do not mash the trottle and hope for the best. You are then asking for a ground loop. Just take your time and all will go well. Best of luck.

Mark Shuman

AcousticTX

I actually find tail draggers a little easier to land myself, but I'm sure that is one of those things that is different for every person. When I went from high wing & tricycle gear to a low wing tail dragger I had no problems. But the most important thing to do is take the route that makes you feel the most comfortable. I have a feeling it wont be a major change in flying style for you good luck my friend.

siclick33

I've never heard that before. I agree with sean, I would hold in UP elevator as the model accelerates. This holds the tail in contact with the ground (If you have a steerable tailwheel it is no use if it is in the air!) and, if you are taking off from grass, will reduce the chances of nosing over .

msu68stang

My Feedback: (7)

Thanks guys for all of your responses. I will probably take it up as soon as the rain moves out of here in the next couple days.

Chris

FHHuber

down elevator durring early accelleration on many taildraggers (GeeBee especially) will have you buying a new prop.

If the wheels are placed correctly for best ground handling... the plane can rest 3 points on nose and mains just as easilly as on mains and tailwheel.

****
Practice some taxiing. If the plane likes to spin around the mainwheels as it gains speed... you need to adjust the landing gear.

SLOWLY advance throttle holding some up elevator... the point here is to keep the tailwheel firmly down untill the rudder becomes effective. Some right rudder may be needed.

As speed builds... let off on the elevator... by the time you are at half throttle you want to be neutral elevator. If you holt the up too long, the plane will pop off the ground, stall and crunch. (unless its an "ovepowered" fun-fly type that can do 0 to 60 straight up in 5 sec...) You may still be holding slight right rudder pressure at this point.

Let the plane run forward the length of the runway... gently pull if it doesn't lift on its own (and you'll need to keep pulling... because it needs up-trim) be prepared to give some down elevator if it lifts on its own... don't do a steep climb out until you are used tot he aircrafts flight characteristics.

Go high and trim the thing. Practice some slow speed flyig at altitude (find where it stalls and how it reacts to a stall)

Play with the plane to get used to it... and then start shooting landing approaches.

When you are comfortable with the landing approach... then let the wheels touch.. and if you want to... kill the engine to let it roll to a stop.

****

Now you have a recipe for success.

Montague

Well, it's not really that simple. I agree that the low wing location all by itself isn't a big deal. However, some planes are just harder to handle than others. Higher wingloadings, airfoils and wing shapes that have nasty stall tendancies and much higher stall speeds, faster cruise speeds, faster roll rates and many other factors can combine to get someone in a lot of trouble in a hurry.

In general, the second plane seems to have the shortest lifespan. Just an observation.

All that said, I took a glace at the plane in question here. It shouldn't be too much for you if you are careful. But I expect that it will roll faster than you are used to, even with lower rates. It will also likely be noticeably faster at the top end. It should float nicely though, it looks to have lots of wing area. And while I can't be sure, I don't expect you to have problems with snapping.

Compare that plane to a Cap or a Sukhoi and you'll see what I'm talking about. I've seen lots of guys plant new planes on landing approaches just because they got too slow.

Personally, I suggest you get someone who has experience with that type of plane to fly it once for you. At least get someone to take it up, trim it, and hand it off to you. And by all means, follow the adivce above about shooting some high level landing approaches, and do some fly-by's as if you were going to land to get a feel for the plane at low speed and how it looks when turning final.

Most students don't seem to get enough practice handling an out-of-trim plane. If you've practiced it, or at least had some experience with multiple controls signifigatly out of trim, then I'd say you'd be ok to test-fly. If you haven't, then I wouldn't do it.

msu68stang

My Feedback: (7)

Yeah out of trim planes aren't a new thing to me. When my wife picks up the radio for my trainer she tends to move the trims all out of wack so I have to retrim it just about every first flight of a day.

FlyerBry

My Feedback: (8)

If you are really nervous about doing the taildragger thing along with flying a new plane you may consider first converting your trainer to a taildragger. This will allow you to take one step at a time and might be a little more insurance that your new plane will stick around a little longer. You would probably find that you like flying your trainer much more once you get rid of the nose wheel and get used to the changes.

This will make your trainer a bit faster both on the ground and in the air. Just remember to rebalance the plane after the weight of the nose wheel has been removed from the front end.

msu68stang

My Feedback: (7)

OK FlyerBy My trainer is an Eagle II do you have any suggestions for converting this to a trainer....mainly the placement of the mains.

DTB

My Feedback: (15)

Hi csdawggie, I just realized you are in Starkville. I live in Jackson, MS. I would be more than happy to do a maiden flight for you but starkville is a little distance from Jackson, but not too far.

I am a club officer for the Mid MS Radio Control Club here in Jackson. www.mmrcc.org (site needs updating) That is my Yellow Four Star 60 in the bottom right hand photo.

If you are every in Jackson and want to fly, by all means let me know and you can be my guess at our field here. Look on our website at club officers and give Derrick Brown a call or e-mail (That's me, LOL) and we can get you flying for sure.

My second plane was a Four Star 60, which is a tail dragger and low wing also. I remember having the same anxiety about the 1st flight. Once I had someone to trim it out for me I took over and had a dead stick, due to tubing problems, but I landed the plane by myself. Remember, this was my first tail dragger, low wing and deadstick all in one. The P-Factor was extremely high that day, but I must say, the Four Star landed sooooo much smoother than I had anticipated. To me, taildraggers are much easier to land than a Tri-cycle landing gear. The low wing will track where you point it, so keep that in mind. You are actually flying the plane instead of guiding the plane now. I would suggest getting some altitude and slowing the plane down to see what the stall speed is, that way you know how slow the plane can go before it stalls which is important to know when landing.

The low wing is really not bad and I almost guarantee that it will become your favorite once you fly it.

If I can help, by all me please contact me and I will do my best to help you out.

Aerial photo of our field
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/upfi...77/Db85352.jpg

Derrick (DTB)

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Place the mains so that the wheels are approximately in line with the Leading edge of the wing. You can even get by with just using a tail skid on the rear.

One important thing to note: Sometimes gear get bent back slightly, This is no biggie on a trike, but for a tail-dragger, you must make sure that the wheels are NOT toed out. They must be either straight, or better yet, SLIGHTLY toed IN.

If your wheels are toed out, you will have one helluva time getting it to go down the runway without ground looping. Toeing the wheels in helps the plane track straight.

msu68stang

My Feedback: (7)

Thanks MinnFlyer for another one of your superb drawings. If I change the trainer to a tail dragger is it going to have enough rudder for me to steer without having a steerable tail wheel?

FlyerBry

My Feedback: (8)

Like MinnFlyer said, place them so they line up with the leading edge of your wing. Be sure to reinforce the bottom of your fuselage with some ply or hardwood to spread out the load. Use 30 minute epoxy to glue it all in and blind nuts and screws to attach the gear.

I was able to put a steerable tailwheel on my trainer by running pull-pull wires from the rudder servo down the fuse to a buggy spring style tail wheel that sits just aft of the fuselage opening where my elevator pushrod exits. My trainer is a Sig LT-40 which may differ a bit from your plane so you may have to adjust your design to match. My plane shares a common hurdle that many other trainers have in that the rudder is above the horizontal stabilizer so it is almost impossible to tie into it to steer the tailwheel with and this solution has worked well for me.

If you would like I can attach some pics later on when I have more time.

msu68stang

My Feedback: (7)

Yeah that would be great FlyerBy.

Thanks to Derrick my plane will fly this weekend. I will let you guys know how it turns out.

Chris

FlyerBry

My Feedback: (8)

Chris, here are the pics I promised... Let me know if you have any questions.

FlyerBry

My Feedback: (8)

Here is a link to the tail gear I used from Tower.

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0001P?&I=LXA386

It is the CBA/Tatone .40 size.

FlyerBry

My Feedback: (8)

Here are a few more pics. I included one of the main gear with new skis that I will hopefully get to try out this weekend.

msu68stang

My Feedback: (7)

Well the plane flew..........after two shaky takeoffs and a few touchy landing i finally got a take off right....well dumb___ me forgot to fuel the plane up and down it came. We thought it was repariable but after further inspection when i got home the main wing spar was broken in about 3 places and a former in the fuse was cracked. Problem is I can't get to the former to fix it as the entire thing is sheeted. On well new plane time. I'm gonna get a 4*40 I think but I would like to put dual alieron servos in it. Please see the post on the Questions section if you have any suggestions on how to do this.

Chris
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Things I say to myself after a crash:
"FUEL STUPID"

DTB

My Feedback: (15)

Chris I sure do hate what happened to you on yesterday. That bird flew so sweet and after I got it trimmed out for you and got the motor running smoothly it was a even sweeter bird. Even after the couple of shacky take offs you started it flew great. It tracked very well. After the crash I thought it could have been repaired easily, but I didn't see that much damage at the field, but then again we didn't look at the damaged in dept while at the field either. Man I sure hated to see that sight. When I heard the motor cut off while you were flying, I thought it would glide on in, so I looked off at the run way to see where you could land and then when I looked up again it was in a death spin and the rest is history. A 4*40 is actually a great plane also. You saw my 4*60 at the field. The dual servo conversion is simple to do. I can help you with that if you need help. We can set it up like my 4*60. Just reinforce 2 ribs for the servos to go. Create a hatch and install the servos on it's side with a slot for the arm to come through. Glue some wood blocks to the inside of the hatch to attach the servos and use tri stock for support the blocks. It isn't hard to do. You know I will be more than happy to help you out with that. Just give me a call and we can get it going.

I'll be happy to do the maiden on the 4*40 if you want /need me to do that also. You are going to love this plance also.

Derrick