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low wing or high wing planes....whats harder to fly???

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low wing or high wing planes....whats harder to fly???

Old 12-19-2014, 04:59 AM
  #26  
thailazer
 
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Good comments on wing loading. My second and third RC Airplane years ago were a high wing Kadet Senior and a low wing Craft Air Scout. Had them both flying at the same time and the low wing Scout was a much easier to fly airplane than the Kadet as the Scout had a bit higher wing loading, tracked better, and was overall more predictable than the Kadet that had very light wing loading. A lot of factors go into airplane stability and ease of flying so it is more than just high wing versus low wing.
Old 12-19-2014, 08:51 AM
  #27  
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For myself, I don't think either is harder to fly than the other. It's a matter of experience, or, can you think faster than the plane can fly and make corrections without really thinking about it. Low wing planes tend to be designed to be faster, it's not an automatic that a low wing will be faster. Dihedral, yes, for stability, and it does work. But dihedral can also make for strange looking rolls, so the low wing will probably have less. In the end, it comes down to the way the plane is set up, and the man with his thumbs on the sticks more than wing location. I tend to more like both, high and low, on the same plane at the same time.

Rich.
Old 12-19-2014, 10:19 AM
  #28  
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It's all about aerodynamics. Wing position is not as important as you think,rather more of perception and looks. Dihedral effect depends on both position and angle. Airplanes that we fly are normally setup with proverse roll or no roll coupling. Proverse means that left rudder will also induce a left roll. A classic example of not getting a design right was Dave Platt's Contender design for Top Fright, which has adverse roll with rudder input. This is a classic example that we sometimes see when a builder removes the dihedral from a low wing design. A high wing model gets a dihedral effect from the wing position, but it can also be setup for no roll coupling with anhedral on the wing.

The other difference between trainers and more advanced designs is contained in the decalage and balance of the model. Trainers are designed to be speed sensitive, pretty much the same as full size general aviation aircraft. Generally this means that the wing has a positive angle of attack while the leading edge of the stabilizer is slightly lower, along with a down thrust on the engine mounting. On top of this, is the CG is very far forward so that the nose will drop down as the airplane slows. So if the airplane is in a slight dive the extra lift brings the nose back up, and after a few cycles the plane will stabilize In level flight. So you fix the power at one setting and trim for level flight. Great for training initially, also good in full size when you are looking at maps. But the airfoil and wing position is not too important, and any design can perform in this manner, even an Extra 300.

Finally a word on wing loading and wing planform. You can get away with a lot more pilot errors with a light wing loading and a constant chord wing. An Ugly Stik or a Pulse are both very good at making pilots out of people that have solo'ed, but are low time fliers. They allow you to bang the sticks around and explore the art of flight without too many crashes where the airplane bites you in the arse. Your time with this level of aircraft should be doing thousands of touch and goes, inside and outside loops,figure eights, both horizontal and vertical, Cuban eights, split s's and Immelmann turns, spins, inverted flight including turns, rolls, snap rolls inside and outside, stall turns, and moe touch and go landings. No matter what you do in the air, blow the landing everybody notices. If your instructor can't fly these maneuvers find a new one after your basic training. Many seem to thing that instruction is over once you solo, but at that point you are about one to two years away from really being able to master the art of flight. Even then, you might be at a 90-95% level of flying ability. At this point it may take you hours of effort to refine something as simple as a loop, since a great loops requires changes in elevator input throttle management, rudder input, and a precise entry with the wings level.
Old 12-19-2014, 10:19 AM
  #29  
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Oops, double entry

Last edited by HighPlains; 12-19-2014 at 10:21 AM.
Old 12-19-2014, 10:43 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by HighPlains

The other difference between trainers and more advanced designs is contained in the decalage and balance of the model. Trainers are designed to be speed sensitive, pretty much the same as full size general aviation aircraft. Generally this means that the wing has a positive angle of attack while the leading edge of the stabilizer is slightly lower, along with a down thrust on the engine mounting. On top of this, is the CG is very far forward so that the nose will drop down as the airplane slows. So if the airplane is in a slight dive the extra lift brings the nose back up, and after a few cycles the plane will stabilize In level flight. So you fix the power at one setting and trim for level flight. Great for training initially, also good in full size when you are looking at maps. But the airfoil and wing position is not too important, and any design can perform in this manner, even an Extra 300.

Finally a word on wing loading and wing planform. You can get away with a lot more pilot errors with a light wing loading and a constant chord wing. An Ugly Stik or a Pulse are both very good at making pilots out of people that have solo'ed, but are low time fliers. They allow you to bang the sticks around and explore the art of flight without too many crashes where the airplane bites you in the arse. Your time with this level of aircraft should be doing thousands of touch and goes, inside and outside loops,figure eights, both horizontal and vertical, Cuban eights, split s's and Immelmann turns, spins, inverted flight including turns, rolls, snap rolls inside and outside, stall turns, and moe touch and go landings. No matter what you do in the air, blow the landing everybody notices. If your instructor can't fly these maneuvers find a new one after your basic training. Many seem to thing that instruction is over once you solo, but at that point you are about one to two years away from really being able to master the art of flight. Even then, you might be at a 90-95% level of flying ability. At this point it may take you hours of effort to refine something as simple as a loop, since a great loops requires changes in elevator input throttle management, rudder input, and a precise entry with the wings level.
What if you have no interest in doing aerobatic maneuvers instead just want to take off, fly in a circle, and land safely?
Old 12-20-2014, 10:00 AM
  #31  
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Fly control line.
Old 12-20-2014, 10:57 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by HighPlains
Fly control line.
One can assume you'd fly a P-51 and an Aeronca C-3 in the same manner?
Old 12-20-2014, 11:40 AM
  #33  
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It's all stick and rudder. Even the prototype 707 did a roll.
Old 12-20-2014, 12:35 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by HighPlains
It's all stick and rudder. Even the prototype 707 did a roll.
I'll assume there has been some advancement between the C-3 and 707.
Old 12-20-2014, 02:26 PM
  #35  
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As models, either design could do almost any maneuver. As full size (both would be wonderful to own), it's quite possible to loop the C-3, and spin as well. But it is very low powered and lightly constructed, plus pretty rare. The Steward Headwind is pretty close in design and concept for the home builder.

I have attended a lot of air shows over the years and have seen some interesting performances in aircraft not really considered to be acrobatic. Even a Weed Hopper doing loops and most of a roll. His wing folded in the roll, but fortunately his ballistic chute worked. But I assume that he had successfully rolled before in practice.

You should checkout old video of Harold Johnson's Ford Tri-motor on YouTube. Loops, rolls, and spins, plus a maneuver that is seldom seen and little known - a Falling Leaf.
Old 12-20-2014, 03:06 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by HighPlains
Fly control line.
I thought about trying it but I think I'd get dizzy.
Old 12-22-2014, 11:04 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by AllModesR/C
I thought about trying it but I think I'd get dizzy.
You would. There are a number of different types of flying a model plane with different names used for it. Scale flying is just flying a plane and making it look and act like the full scale it was modeled after. You don't see a lot of Cubs or Cessna's doing loops and rolls when they are flying over your house. I have a couple of Extras and Edges hangered at the airport just down the road from me and they don't stunt over the house either but as soon as they get over the desert they start performing all the wild maneuvers they are known for.
If all you want to do is fly around in a circle or do figure eights then stick with planes like the Cub.
The problem is as you progress as a pilot your going to decide at some point to try a loop, then maybe a roll. It's normal, we all did it. The high wing planes, even the basic trainer will do all these things. Mater of fact it's fun stunt flying the trainer. I love flying them in really strong wind because I can get them to even fly backwards.
A lot of the really old guys I fly with just fly around in a circle but even they sneak in a loop once in a while.
Old 12-22-2014, 03:16 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Gray Beard
You would. There are a number of different types of flying a model plane with different names used for it. Scale flying is just flying a plane and making it look and act like the full scale it was modeled after. You don't see a lot of Cubs or Cessna's doing loops and rolls when they are flying over your house. I have a couple of Extras and Edges hangered at the airport just down the road from me and they don't stunt over the house either but as soon as they get over the desert they start performing all the wild maneuvers they are known for.
If all you want to do is fly around in a circle or do figure eights then stick with planes like the Cub.
The problem is as you progress as a pilot your going to decide at some point to try a loop, then maybe a roll. It's normal, we all did it. The high wing planes, even the basic trainer will do all these things. Mater of fact it's fun stunt flying the trainer. I love flying them in really strong wind because I can get them to even fly backwards.
A lot of the really old guys I fly with just fly around in a circle but even they sneak in a loop once in a while.
Interesting. Somehow though I can't imagine my old 40 trainer being capable of doing a loop. It seems barely powerful enough to stay afloat and flies pretty slow. I think if I tried to loop it upwards it would stall before inverting.
Old 12-22-2014, 06:38 PM
  #39  
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All the trainers I have ever flown will do a loop, not always pretty but they will do it. A lot depends on prop selection, wind and pilot skill. Even a slow dog of a trainer will do one if you dive it first. I had a 12 year old student that decided we should fly in really strong wind, I never tell a student not to fly in the wind, even heavy wind. The trainer I had was an old Tower that had been repaired a lot with a really worn out OS 40la. I took off and let the kid have it on the down leg and when he turned into the wind he freaked yelling dead stick. The plane just stopped. I told him to push down and then the plane started flying again.
I took the plane over and put it into the wind and just pulled full up elevator and that plane just staid in one place looping.
Any good instructor can teach you all these little tricks to get a plane to do things it isn't designed to do.
I love flying trainers.
Old 12-22-2014, 08:12 PM
  #40  
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http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=y...&v=yNHjbTXBqsM

Go to the 18 minute point of this video to see the late Amelia Reid flying a Cessna 150 in a way you won't believe. She was about 80 when she flew this flight. I saw her fly her 150 the length of the runway inverted (she was also deadstick since her plane did not have inverted oil or fuel) at another show.
Old 12-23-2014, 10:49 AM
  #41  
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HP man did this post of yours above and the link strike a cord and thank you. This may be a bit of digression from the subject and for that I am sorry but there is a connection here that I believe will be of interest to all.

I have no connection with the well know Amelia Reid at all but of course was familiar with some of her story. But what got me was just this morning before I read your post I was in conversaion over the phone with an old friend and he had just crossed paths with her son. What is so interesting is apparently in addition to his full scale accomplishments he had been one of the Cox demo flyers that flew routines all over the country in the early days of the plastics. He even gave Collin one off the left over ships

My friend Collin acts as a physical tie and connection for the rather small and shrinking group Fournier owner, operator, airshow flyers and preservationist Left in the world. I had to let mine go after a 35 year love affair about six years ago but Collin is good about keeping this small group of fortunate folks connected. It was something about the Fourniers that had brought Collin and miss Reids son together.

Definitely points out something I have always said and that is Aviation as well as Model Aviation is truly a small world.

Sorry for the digression

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