Run time and deadstick
08-08-2004, 08:54 PM
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Run time and deadstick
Well, I experienced my first deadstick! Actually, twice!!!!![X(] Both times ran out of fuel. 1st time, was heading downwind in order to
line up with final approach. Scared as hell to try and not tip stall, I brought it in fine. Just used a slow lazy right hand turn and tried to
keep up some airspeed while keeping nose up just a little. 2nd time, I was up about 500 feet. I just circled and dropped altitude
and landed although landed at end of grass strip and actually hit the bushes at about 2 mph.
My plane has a 12 ounce tank. I'm using Byron fuel, 10% nitro and 18% synthetic/castor oil mix. Engine is OS .46 AX. I find that I'm getting roughtly 6 1/2 minutes run time. Does this seem correct? I'm not full throttle all the time. I figured I'd get at least 10 minutes.
Maybe OS engines love to drink the fuel? Also had the engine bog out a little. I ran fuel thu needle valve each way. Bog seemed to go away. I still may have to tweak the low end. There is a little hesitation from idle to full.
Dave...
line up with final approach. Scared as hell to try and not tip stall, I brought it in fine. Just used a slow lazy right hand turn and tried to
keep up some airspeed while keeping nose up just a little. 2nd time, I was up about 500 feet. I just circled and dropped altitude
and landed although landed at end of grass strip and actually hit the bushes at about 2 mph.
My plane has a 12 ounce tank. I'm using Byron fuel, 10% nitro and 18% synthetic/castor oil mix. Engine is OS .46 AX. I find that I'm getting roughtly 6 1/2 minutes run time. Does this seem correct? I'm not full throttle all the time. I figured I'd get at least 10 minutes.
Maybe OS engines love to drink the fuel? Also had the engine bog out a little. I ran fuel thu needle valve each way. Bog seemed to go away. I still may have to tweak the low end. There is a little hesitation from idle to full.
Dave...
08-08-2004, 08:59 PM
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RE: Run time and deadstick
Pit,
First off, Congratulations on dead-sticking... Now you know why they say the prop is just a fan to keep the pilot cool. It's because he starts to sweat when it stops blowing...
A .46 should get more than 6 1/2 minutes out of a 12 ounce tank, though. Sounds like you might be a bit rich???
My .60 get about 8 1/2 to 9 on a 12 ounce tank, although I'm not running full throttle either...
First off, Congratulations on dead-sticking... Now you know why they say the prop is just a fan to keep the pilot cool. It's because he starts to sweat when it stops blowing...
A .46 should get more than 6 1/2 minutes out of a 12 ounce tank, though. Sounds like you might be a bit rich???
My .60 get about 8 1/2 to 9 on a 12 ounce tank, although I'm not running full throttle either...
08-08-2004, 09:01 PM
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RE: Run time and deadstick
I just have a question, because that seems a little short. Is the peice that conects to the muffeler at the top of the tank? If it isnt you aren't flying with a full tank. Just fill it up with the wing off and check that it is getting filled
08-08-2004, 09:20 PM
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RE: Run time and deadstick
Diamonds, you know, you could be right. I've filled tank before and when the breather silicon tube leaks fuel, tank is filled but, when I look at tank, its actually not full. I will have to double check it. And also, I will have to check about the richness. I do have a tachometer
so I will do a check on the engine too. Thanx for the tippo....geez, I'm constantly learning on this glow stuff all the time.
Thanx Wood. I dead stick all the time on my electrics. I just keep flying until the batt runs out and then land as close as I can to
me feet. All my electrics are belly landers.
so I will do a check on the engine too. Thanx for the tippo....geez, I'm constantly learning on this glow stuff all the time.
Thanx Wood. I dead stick all the time on my electrics. I just keep flying until the batt runs out and then land as close as I can to
me feet. All my electrics are belly landers.
08-08-2004, 09:53 PM
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RE: Run time and deadstick
ORIGINAL: LuckyArmpit
My plane has a 12 ounce tank. I'm using Byron fuel, 10% nitro and 18% synthetic/castor oil mix. Engine is OS .46 AX. I find that I'm getting roughtly 6 1/2 minutes run time. Does this seem correct?
My plane has a 12 ounce tank. I'm using Byron fuel, 10% nitro and 18% synthetic/castor oil mix. Engine is OS .46 AX. I find that I'm getting roughtly 6 1/2 minutes run time. Does this seem correct?
Start with checking over your fuel tank overflow pipe height to ensure you are getting 12oz into the tank. Then check the feed pipe to ensure the pickup is not kinking and is sufficiently distanced from the tank walls/corners to foul feed. Then cross-check the pressure line to ensure it's not coming off in flight causing a premature dead cut. If all of these check out OK, richen the high end N/V 3 clicks rich of peak rpm, even more if that AX is new and hardly had any fuel through it. If that's the case, suggest using less nitro and more oil content in your fuel, or richen the **** out of it and run a conservative load/rpm until you've clocked up a couple of hours runtime on it.
08-09-2004, 12:15 AM
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RE: Run time and deadstick
I use a manual pump and I always count how many turn to fill up after a flight, that helps you to assess roughly how many mins flying time you have per tank.
08-09-2004, 06:09 AM
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RE: Run time and deadstick
The breather and fill silicon tubes are not kinked up and they don't pop off during flight (I will pull the fuel line after landing to burn any excess fuel in engine). I will have to recheck the fuel tank bottle and how the fuel lines are positioned. The tank is a rectangular shape and I'm not sure if the plug (has 3 holes) is in the middle or near the top.
Dave...
Dave...
08-09-2004, 08:21 AM
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RE: Run time and deadstick
Just so you don't confuse things -- Diamonds is referring to the metal or plastic vent tube INSIDE the tank -- not the position in which it comes out through the stopper. The end of the vent tube should be situated at the top of the tank, but not quite touching it. Additionally, check to ensure that you fuel pick-up clunk isn't jamming against the back end of the tank (or the tube may be too stiff) & therefore not free to fall to the bottom. If it doesnt lie on the bottom of the tank, you won't get all of the available fuel.
08-09-2004, 08:24 AM
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RE: Run time and deadstick
[>:][>:][:@][:@]
[
][&o] Okay, I think I have the problemo solved. DUH!!!!!!! Dumb builder put-together'er mistake!!! The breather part of the tank has a piece of copper tube that is bent. The Tank is 11 oz. Hangar 8 tank. The bent portion is pointing to the right. So, when I am fueling up, the tank is roughly getting only half full. DUH!!!! Also, glad I pulled off engine because one of the screws holding it to the mount was loose. I keep forgetting that engines as opposed to electric motors vibrate more. I will have to start checking much more frequently!!!! Of course now, this poses another question! [8D] Given a 2 stroker .46 engine, isn't it about 1 minute run time per ounce of fuel?????
Dave...
[][&o] Okay, I think I have the problemo solved. DUH!!!!!!! Dumb builder put-together'er mistake!!! The breather part of the tank has a piece of copper tube that is bent. The Tank is 11 oz. Hangar 8 tank. The bent portion is pointing to the right. So, when I am fueling up, the tank is roughly getting only half full. DUH!!!! Also, glad I pulled off engine because one of the screws holding it to the mount was loose. I keep forgetting that engines as opposed to electric motors vibrate more. I will have to start checking much more frequently!!!! Of course now, this poses another question! [8D] Given a 2 stroker .46 engine, isn't it about 1 minute run time per ounce of fuel?????Dave...
08-09-2004, 11:12 AM
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RE: Run time and deadstick
Actually, a .60-size 2-stroke on 5% - 10% fuel will normally use ~1 oz of fuel/min. The .46, even at full bore, shouldn't burn that much unless it is piped & running very high revs on a a lot of nitro.
BTW, higher nitro content will increase the rate of consumption.
BTW, higher nitro content will increase the rate of consumption.
08-09-2004, 11:25 AM
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RE: Run time and deadstick
ORIGINAL: LuckyArmpit
and tried to
keep up some airspeed while keeping nose up just a little.
and tried to
keep up some airspeed while keeping nose up just a little.
I assume it's supposed to be funny, but given the frequent posts in the Clubhouse about stolen planes, I wonder if the "Fly it like ya stole it" might be mis-construed?
08-09-2004, 11:54 AM
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RE: Run time and deadstick
Mike, the "fly it like ya stole it" is a funny line. My buddy has that on his spoiler on his dirt car racer. Its a common saying around the local dirt car tracks. Why keep nose up? Because I was coming across the end of a corn field. Nose down and I'd be repairing something. If you were far enough away from the landing zone, you'd never make it keeping the nose down.
Dave...
Dave...
08-09-2004, 04:00 PM
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RE: Run time and deadstick
ORIGINAL: LuckyArmpit
Given a 2 stroker .46 engine, isn't it about 1 minute run time per ounce of fuel?????
Dave...
Given a 2 stroker .46 engine, isn't it about 1 minute run time per ounce of fuel?????
Dave...
However IME a typical powerful .46 such as the 46FX on a typical suggested sport prop will run safely 12min in the air at predominently full throttle on 10oz of usable fuel, with an additional reserve of about 2 mins allowing for circuit, a possible overshoot and taxi-ing to/from the flightine at reduced power or flight idle. If you spend excessive time tuning the high speed needle before a flight, you need to take this consumption into account.
Excluding engine mod or tuned pipes, variables which can reduce or extend endurance significantly include elevation of your flying site, nitro content and viscosity of the fuel, propellor size affecting peak rpm, and how you fly/use the throttle and high speed needle tuning.
Now you could say that using a figure of 1oz per min for a .46 is a conservatively safe rule of thumb which will never see you dead stick through fuel exhaustion, provided of course, that your tank is full and the specificed capacity is all usable. However it's better to have an appreciation of your actual fuel consumption.
Average sport tuned .46FX consumption with aggressive throttle use is closer to .75 to .85 of an oz per min, depending upon whether you want to calculate the average figure including or excluding startup, tune, taxi, circuit, reduced power flight, etc.
As a guide, depending where and when you initialise your TX's flight timer per flight should determine which set of figures you use. eg: I initialise my timer as I line up for take-off. The safe flight endurance ROT I use to avoid being caught out is just to calculate endurance at the rate based upon flight time at my average throttle setting from throttle roll-on to a full stop landing, then subtract 1 minute reserve to allow for a couple of missed approaches/holding due either conflictual traffic or conditions and another minute (at average flow rate) to account for the startup, tuning, taxi-ing, and circuit at the reduced consumption rate of flight idle.
In summary, dead sticks through fuel exhaustion simply shouldn't happen at all, and are the consequence of poor airmanship and a lack of planning or situational awareness. Considering the all too frequently related tale of woe consequence, they're really worth avoiding when it's so easy to do so.
08-09-2004, 04:33 PM
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RE: Run time and deadstick
In summary, dead sticks through fuel exhaustion simply shouldn't happen at all, and are the consequence of poor airmanship and a lack of planning or situational awareness.
That's funny, on my planes with a good glide ratio, I frequently dead stick because there ain't nothing but fumes left. Guess having fun defines "poor airmanship" in some parts. Too bad, I thought I was doing fine.
Maybe you should take some of the fuel left after landing and drown that bug up your... never mind....
08-09-2004, 04:59 PM
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RE: Run time and deadstick
ORIGINAL: Woodpile
That's funny, on my planes with a good glide ratio, I frequently dead stick because there ain't nothing but fumes left. Guess having fun defines "poor airmanship" in some parts. Too bad, I thought I was doing fine.
Maybe you should take some of the fuel left after landing and drown that bug up your... never mind....
That's funny, on my planes with a good glide ratio, I frequently dead stick because there ain't nothing but fumes left. Guess having fun defines "poor airmanship" in some parts. Too bad, I thought I was doing fine.
Maybe you should take some of the fuel left after landing and drown that bug up your... never mind....
08-09-2004, 08:17 PM
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RE: Run time and deadstick
Actually sigrun, after reading your post (#13) I thought Woodpile's reply was quite humorous. Your post DID come across as having been written from a high horse, and my first thought was yikes! these aren't full scale planes. 
Dennis-
Dennis-
08-09-2004, 08:18 PM
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RE: Run time and deadstick
thats short, my .40 with an 8oz tank would run close to 20 minutes...
Endurance is dependent upon usuable fuel divided by average consumption rate. Consumption rate is dependent upon several variables of which engine capacity is but one. But the most significant variable if comparing identical or equal engines, is how the throttle is used.
By way of example the same 46FX engine/fuel/10oz tank combo which will give me 11 minutes flying the Sportsman or Advanced pattern involving semi-continuous application of full power for thrust vs weight verticals will give me nearly double that time at the much lower consumption rate power settings if used circuit training a student. ie: ~ your 20 minutes. With a lesser capacity plain bearing .40 supplied by an air bleed carb with a conservatively sized orifice, with the lowered hp output and rpm consumption reduces even further and I could achieve in excess of that 20 minutes on an 8oz tank in the training role. Comparing consumption rates can only be interpreted meaningfully if you're comparing apples from the same tree to paraphrase the original allegory.
08-09-2004, 08:49 PM
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RE: Run time and deadstick
ORIGINAL: DBCherry
Actually sigrun, after reading your post (#13) I thought Woodpile's reply was quite humorous. Your post DID come across as having been written from a high horse, and my first thought was yikes! these aren't full scale planes.
Dennis-
Actually sigrun, after reading your post (#13) I thought Woodpile's reply was quite humorous. Your post DID come across as having been written from a high horse, and my first thought was yikes! these aren't full scale planes.
Dennis-
My sense of humour dissipates rapidly when inconsiderate dipsticks like ACE unnecessarily put my and others models representing a considerable outlay at unnecessary risk through irresponsible behaviour and/or outright stupidity. You may be amused by his compromising safety, causing general mayhem amongst the novices, the less competent or confident alike, not to mention the selfishly contrived inconvenience to all whilst expecting right of way with totally unavoidable "dead stick" calls -then further wanting to occupy the active runway and occpy the frequency for another 5-10 minutes while they retrieve their dead stick - pun intentional. We can all do without such prima donnerish displays of 'prowess'.
Might be OK for suds suckin' ACE's ops in Pumpkin Crick, but it really doesn't wash at a very busy flying field. Such stupidity merchants can piss off and fly at Gumby Patch where there antics are better 'appreciated'. Might be out of vogue, but in my book group comes before the individual. Don't like it. Tuff. Conform or find somewhere else to fly.. Next. [8D]
08-09-2004, 09:38 PM
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RE: Run time and deadstick
Sigrun,
Since you have absolutely no idea what conditions apply at the field where I fly, nor my abilities as a pilot, nor whether there is in fact anyone else present while I'm flying or whether there is the maximum number of planes in the air on a regular basis, your comments show you to be the arrogant, pompous jerk I took you for. Perhaps deadsticks are quite common where I fly, since we like to enjoy ourselves and aren't so hung up on ourselves at our field or turning what is supposed to be a fun hobby into just another chore to be done by the book.
If you can explain to me how my dead-stick puts you and your precious little toys at risk, compromises safety or in any way makes me a prima donna ("prima donnerish" is not a word, you provincial hick), I'd love to hear it. Are you suggesting that your skills aren't up to flying when anyone else might need the runway? Since you always land with fuel in the tank, I would think you have calculated to the second exactly how much reserve you have at any given moment. Perhaps you mean that when Your Grace is near by, all must genuflect and submit to your will and anyone so presumng as to take precidence for landing simply is not in the natural order of things.
The 30 or so seconds it takes to ground a plane during a dead stick shouldn't really interefere with your expert flying. If it does, I would submit that you haven't the time to spend at the field anyway. It certainly does not take me 5-10 minutes to retreive my aircraft. I usually run it into the grass apron anyway. A good pilot can do that, you know, or perhaps not.
In general, your accusations and epithets show you to be inflexible and incapable of having fun with this hobby. You are not in the left seat of a 757 with 200 people behind you. I may surmise from your position that you only fly within acceptable parameters, meaning no more than a 20 degree bank and 15 degree angle of climb at any time as that shows good airmanship.
Does your club not require simulated deadstick landings as a necessary step to soloing? Are they wasting your precious seconds as well? Or will you not deign to appear at the field and grace them with you presence whilst the mere plebes and servants are defiling the place?
Try something radical next time you go to the field. Try to have fun and don't get your knickers in a twist if someone does something you don't approve of... Just let it go... You might want to bring along a grammar and brush up on your spelling though... (their not there, etc...)
Cheers![sm=thumbup.gif]
Since you have absolutely no idea what conditions apply at the field where I fly, nor my abilities as a pilot, nor whether there is in fact anyone else present while I'm flying or whether there is the maximum number of planes in the air on a regular basis, your comments show you to be the arrogant, pompous jerk I took you for. Perhaps deadsticks are quite common where I fly, since we like to enjoy ourselves and aren't so hung up on ourselves at our field or turning what is supposed to be a fun hobby into just another chore to be done by the book.
If you can explain to me how my dead-stick puts you and your precious little toys at risk, compromises safety or in any way makes me a prima donna ("prima donnerish" is not a word, you provincial hick), I'd love to hear it. Are you suggesting that your skills aren't up to flying when anyone else might need the runway? Since you always land with fuel in the tank, I would think you have calculated to the second exactly how much reserve you have at any given moment. Perhaps you mean that when Your Grace is near by, all must genuflect and submit to your will and anyone so presumng as to take precidence for landing simply is not in the natural order of things.
The 30 or so seconds it takes to ground a plane during a dead stick shouldn't really interefere with your expert flying. If it does, I would submit that you haven't the time to spend at the field anyway. It certainly does not take me 5-10 minutes to retreive my aircraft. I usually run it into the grass apron anyway. A good pilot can do that, you know, or perhaps not.
In general, your accusations and epithets show you to be inflexible and incapable of having fun with this hobby. You are not in the left seat of a 757 with 200 people behind you. I may surmise from your position that you only fly within acceptable parameters, meaning no more than a 20 degree bank and 15 degree angle of climb at any time as that shows good airmanship.
Does your club not require simulated deadstick landings as a necessary step to soloing? Are they wasting your precious seconds as well? Or will you not deign to appear at the field and grace them with you presence whilst the mere plebes and servants are defiling the place?
Try something radical next time you go to the field. Try to have fun and don't get your knickers in a twist if someone does something you don't approve of... Just let it go... You might want to bring along a grammar and brush up on your spelling though... (their not there, etc...)
Cheers![sm=thumbup.gif]
08-10-2004, 04:07 AM
#21
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RE: Run time and deadstick
Well over in 1/2A land most small planes dont have landing gear, and deadstick every flight, course their not that heavy, and 3 to 6 minute flights is all your gonna get....this is a hobby ya'll it is meant to be fun....some people just look at things differently...lets play nice
..Rog
..Rog
08-10-2004, 04:25 AM
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RE: Run time and deadstick
Flyinrog, all my electrics are dead stickers. And all are belly landers. If you seen where I fly 'em on my farm, no way wheels are gonna work. Was flying my T-52 last nite and all 5 flights were dead stick. The question is, can you land it just about at your feet and not have to walk 50 yards to pick up the plane.
I'm going to re-set the timer on my Futaba 9C for the Arrow. Will try it at 12 minutes since I have corrected the tank breather tube.
I'm also building the U Can Do 3D 40 currently. It has a 8 ounce tank. Will set the tranny for 8 minutes with it. The control surfaces are huge on this plane! I'm going to start with very low throws on it.
Dave...
I'm going to re-set the timer on my Futaba 9C for the Arrow. Will try it at 12 minutes since I have corrected the tank breather tube.
I'm also building the U Can Do 3D 40 currently. It has a 8 ounce tank. Will set the tranny for 8 minutes with it. The control surfaces are huge on this plane! I'm going to start with very low throws on it.
Dave...
08-10-2004, 07:58 AM
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RE: Run time and deadstick
ORIGINAL: Woodpile
Sigrun,
Since you have absolutely no idea what conditions apply at the field where I fly, nor my abilities as a pilot, nor whether there is in fact anyone else present while I'm flying or whether there is the maximum number of planes in the air on a regular basis, your comments show you to be the arrogant, pompous jerk I took you for. Perhaps deadsticks are quite common where I fly, since we like to enjoy ourselves and aren't so hung up on ourselves at our field or turning what is supposed to be a fun hobby into just another chore to be done by the book.
If you can explain to me how my dead-stick puts you and your precious little toys at risk, compromises safety or in any way makes me a prima donna ("prima donnerish" is not a word, you provincial hick), I'd love to hear it. Are you suggesting that your skills aren't up to flying when anyone else might need the runway? Since you always land with fuel in the tank, I would think you have calculated to the second exactly how much reserve you have at any given moment. Perhaps you mean that when Your Grace is near by, all must genuflect and submit to your will and anyone so presumng as to take precidence for landing simply is not in the natural order of things.
The 30 or so seconds it takes to ground a plane during a dead stick shouldn't really interefere with your expert flying. If it does, I would submit that you haven't the time to spend at the field anyway. It certainly does not take me 5-10 minutes to retreive my aircraft. I usually run it into the grass apron anyway. A good pilot can do that, you know, or perhaps not.
In general, your accusations and epithets show you to be inflexible and incapable of having fun with this hobby. You are not in the left seat of a 757 with 200 people behind you. I may surmise from your position that you only fly within acceptable parameters, meaning no more than a 20 degree bank and 15 degree angle of climb at any time as that shows good airmanship.
Does your club not require simulated deadstick landings as a necessary step to soloing? Are they wasting your precious seconds as well? Or will you not deign to appear at the field and grace them with you presence whilst the mere plebes and servants are defiling the place?
Try something radical next time you go to the field. Try to have fun and don't get your knickers in a twist if someone does something you don't approve of... Just let it go... You might want to bring along a grammar and brush up on your spelling though... (their not there, etc...)
Cheers![sm=thumbup.gif]
Sigrun,
Since you have absolutely no idea what conditions apply at the field where I fly, nor my abilities as a pilot, nor whether there is in fact anyone else present while I'm flying or whether there is the maximum number of planes in the air on a regular basis, your comments show you to be the arrogant, pompous jerk I took you for. Perhaps deadsticks are quite common where I fly, since we like to enjoy ourselves and aren't so hung up on ourselves at our field or turning what is supposed to be a fun hobby into just another chore to be done by the book.
If you can explain to me how my dead-stick puts you and your precious little toys at risk, compromises safety or in any way makes me a prima donna ("prima donnerish" is not a word, you provincial hick), I'd love to hear it. Are you suggesting that your skills aren't up to flying when anyone else might need the runway? Since you always land with fuel in the tank, I would think you have calculated to the second exactly how much reserve you have at any given moment. Perhaps you mean that when Your Grace is near by, all must genuflect and submit to your will and anyone so presumng as to take precidence for landing simply is not in the natural order of things.
The 30 or so seconds it takes to ground a plane during a dead stick shouldn't really interefere with your expert flying. If it does, I would submit that you haven't the time to spend at the field anyway. It certainly does not take me 5-10 minutes to retreive my aircraft. I usually run it into the grass apron anyway. A good pilot can do that, you know, or perhaps not.
In general, your accusations and epithets show you to be inflexible and incapable of having fun with this hobby. You are not in the left seat of a 757 with 200 people behind you. I may surmise from your position that you only fly within acceptable parameters, meaning no more than a 20 degree bank and 15 degree angle of climb at any time as that shows good airmanship.
Does your club not require simulated deadstick landings as a necessary step to soloing? Are they wasting your precious seconds as well? Or will you not deign to appear at the field and grace them with you presence whilst the mere plebes and servants are defiling the place?
Try something radical next time you go to the field. Try to have fun and don't get your knickers in a twist if someone does something you don't approve of... Just let it go... You might want to bring along a grammar and brush up on your spelling though... (their not there, etc...)
Cheers![sm=thumbup.gif]
Woodpile, at least we can take heart that that A****** [:'(] has not afflicted this continent
, and is further isolated by a sizable moat...
08-10-2004, 08:39 AM
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RE: Run time and deadstick
BAM!!!
Funfly here at Gumby Patch sunday sunday sunday!!!!
Be there !!!!
Hey, I run my tanks out once in awhile, just to see how long they run, plus, it keeps the exuast residue from building up in the tank.
Funfly here at Gumby Patch sunday sunday sunday!!!!
Be there !!!!
Hey, I run my tanks out once in awhile, just to see how long they run, plus, it keeps the exuast residue from building up in the tank.
08-10-2004, 06:08 PM
#25
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Barnegat,
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RE: Run time and deadstick
Jet,
I'll be there, but only if I can be Gumby this time...
At least I got a promotion... Last week I couldn't spell "Ace", this week I are one...
I'll be there, but only if I can be Gumby this time...
At least I got a promotion... Last week I couldn't spell "Ace", this week I are one...