bgorham

Well ... crash number 5 with more poor old trainer, and this one was spectacular. I am really having trouble with rolls. In this mishap, I was trying to roll the plane by incrasing the throttle, giving it a bit of bump up, and then hard over with the ailerons. The result, it rolled 180 and into a straight nosedive. I tried to loop it on around and boom, straight in, nose first into the ground.

This weekend was the virgin flight after putting it back together, and of course I was at it again working on rolls (this time with allot more altitude ... Again same thing, 180 roll, and bam into a nosedive. If I try to give it allot of up elevator, it will finish the roll, but it ends up looking like a corkscrew.

I saw someone mention throwing some rudder at it as well in a previous post, and when trying that things got really ugly really fast. I guess my long winded question is ... Help! How do I do a simple roll with this high winged beast?

Thanks ... Bo

bgorham

Thanks for any tips ....

Bo

TIGER2PLANE

Some trainers just dont roll! It also sounds like you are to close to the ground. Trainers want to stay in a upright position at all times. I would say that you are ready for a second plane, like a mid wing or say a tiger 2 or 60, something with less dihedral in the wing and not flat bottomed.
You can try to increase your aileron throws to max and that will help some, but you need to be 2 crashes height when you try to stunt a trainer

TerrellFlyer

never seen a plane that would't roll,seen a lot of people that couldn't. When I'm teaching newbies or aerobatics to pilots, the first thing is to check the balance of the plane,if it's real nose heavy then the plane will take a hard dive while inverted,while learning to roll, I suggest ailerons only,with a plane that has a lot of dihedral, pull up slightly,start the roll with ailerons,as the plane starts inverted,start applying down elevator to keep the nose level.as the plane rolls upright,start removing down elevator,as the roll is completed you may need some up elevator to level the plane,if you roll left or right doesn't matter,as you gain experience then practice with the rudder to smooth things out.
Have a goodun,John..

bgorham

Boy John, that sure sounds like me. I meant down elevator when trying the roll thing. I have had some luck, but for the most part it is pretty ugly.

The point about the cg being too nose heavy is interesting. I have it balanced right at where the mfg sez so, just a hair behind the cord of the wing. I did try moving it back a little, and man the plane got squirrely. But the way you described how a nose heavy airplane will dive inverted, you may be on to something.

Now if I go to inverted by pulling out at the top of a loop, with about half down elevator, it will stay inverted until my speed bleeds down too bad and then it will practically fall out of the sky. Is all of that down elevator required due to the high wing big dihedrial business, or is this another sign of a nose heavy plane?

Hey sideliner, I know I am pushing it with the old trainer, but it sure is fun, and I am trying to learn as much as I can. I do have a new Venture 60 on the building board, but it will take me a while to finish it, and I want to learn and practice as much as I can before I start with that one.

I have been working on loops, stall turns, and some other basic stuff, and that seams to be going pretty well. Is there a good place out on the net with explainations and tips on aerobatics?


Thanks all .... Bo

TerrellFlyer

Hi bgorham,
be carefull moving the cg aft, it helps the pitch sensitivity,to far back and the plane will be uncontrollable,as your skills improve you may want to fly tailheavy if you get into 3D flying. The wing is trying to right itself when it's inverted,it's a trainer. Just give it more down elevator while inverted,also it the plane is loosing speed while inverted just apply more throttle,practice flying inverted more,sounds like you're getting closer to a roll,fly about three mistakes high while learning new skills. You will enjoy the Venture 60,it's a great building and flying plane,but you may want to pratice more with the trainer because the Venture 60 flys on the rails,in other words where you point it, it stays, it does nothing on its on, the trainer will fly inverted, loops ,rolls,hammerheads.cuban 8's figure 8's,halfway do snaps and spins,most people quit there trainer to soon,then wonder why they crashed the second plane quick like.Hope this helps.

Have a goodun,John

SDR-Hammer

I agree that all planes will roll however I've seen some trainers that will not fly inverted (not enough elevator to keep the nose up). It sounds like you may need a little more elevator authority or more aileron throw to get through the roll faster.
If none of these changes are possible with the plane your currently flying time to step up to a more advanced plane.

Sdr

TerrellFlyer

I have never seen a trainer that wouldn't fly inverted,may need more elevator throw, may need the cg checked,may need a pilot, or all of the above.Have a goodun,John.

thepope

My Feedback: (1)

Have you tried a flight sim yet? The planes are a lot easier to repair!

TerrellFlyer

Hi bgorham,
some sites you may like.
www.nsrca.org/
www.geistware.com/rcmodeling/
www.rcfaq.com
Have a goodun,John.

bgorham

Thnaks for the links John, and I agree, I want to keep pounding things out using my trainer. I am also getting excited about my venture, it is really starting to shape up on the building board. Both wings are assembled, and I started on the fuse tonight. Only problem ... my wife is pushing back hard on another engine right now ... she sez it is her turn to go shopping ... not mine!

Dag gone ... why do women always hold the purse strings!

Bo

FlyingZee

Perhaps your aelerons are not set up right?? Not enough throw??. When you first start, having little throw is nice so as to prevent some over correction. However, for faster roll rate (or maybe rols in general), having more throw would be better. This can be adjusted either at the servo or the control linkage. People have their preference for different reasons, but as this is a trainer, I don't think it will matter much which you chose.

Have you tried an imelman (sp?) turn? You mentioned that you can get inverted at the top of a loop, what happens if you try to roll that back around into level flight? Just a thought...

Also, it sounds like you are getting nervous as the plane loses altitude and you try to correct with the elevator. Unless you are a couple of loops high, I like to level the wings first. Have you tried doing a roll at a 60-degree climb? That is how I am learning Snap-Rolls. As I get used to the quickness of the roll, I am decreasing the angle of climb.

Zee

bgorham

Hey Zee, good input.

Question ... I know how to adjust the throws using the radio, but can you explain how that can be adjusted using the control linkages? I can not picture that in my head.

Yes I can roll out on top of the loop. It is a little rocky, but very doable. I guess that is telling me the problem is rolling over to inverted, once it is there, I can roll it back fairly easy to upright.

I agree that I have been getting nervous and trying to pull out using elevator. I also have learned my lesson about making sure I am 2 mistakes high while goofing around!

I have not tried rolling when at a 60 degree climb. I will test that out this weekend. I will also up the throws on the ailerons and elevator and see what happens. That will definately make me pay attention to what I am doing.

Thanks for the input guys ... I usually have to fly really early in the mornings due to family schedules, so I have not had a chance to work with other fliers that much.

Bo

TerrellFlyer

at the servo move to the outer holes or use longer arms,at the control linkage move the linkage closer to the control surface,that gives more throw,reverse every thing and that gives less throw but more tork,I don't like the linkage to close to the control surface because greater chance of flutter.
Have a goodun,John.

banktoturn

bgorham,

As several people pointed out, your trainer is built for stability, and will natually resist, to some extent, your attempts to roll and to fly inverted. The reason the moving your CG aft may help is that it will reduce the stability of your plane a bit. The tendency to dive after 180 degrees of roll does make it sound like you may have an 'excessively stable' CG position. Having said that, if you found the plane to be squirrely when you moved CG back, it may be best not to push it. Increasing aileron throw, within reason, could help you get all the way around before you run into other problems. Flying a little faster could also help. I am assuming that your plane has a flat-bottom wing. If so, it simply will not be very effective at making lift when inverted. You can do two things about this. Use more down elevator ( maybe increase elevator throw, if needed ), and fly a little faster, so that your upside-down wing can make enough lift with a moderate angle of attack.

banktoturn