caseyh46

My Feedback: (1)

Hi all.. I have a quick question maybe you guru's can help me figure out. I have a WM T-34 ARF and have flown it about 8 times. I have a TT .46 pro with a 10x6 three blade prop on it. Now, my problems is that it lands extremely hot. Now I'm sure this is my fault completely so how do I remedy this. I typically use a long shallow glide slope with the engine at idle on landing, do I need to steepen it up? I'm just worried about it stalling. My trainer (once again I'm sure my fault) also seems to land much quicker than others that I've noticed. Do I need a flatter prop? any setup tips you guys could offer would be greatly appreciated...
Casey

Pilot Chad

My Feedback: (4)

If your coming in at idle, the prop should matter. Make sure you just flare it as much as you can without stalling, I would practice this wit the engine on good speed at a good safe altitude. Maybe this will help. Some others might know more though

camss69

My Feedback: (46)

Well typically if your plane is landing hotter than others with the same plane it's because your either heavy or your just landing it that way. It's heavy if you have to land that fast to keep it from stalling and falling out of the air and others can land slower with the same setup. (Higher wing loading) Have you slowed it down to see how slow it will go? Obviously do this at a higher altitude so you have time to recover. Also is your idle set low enough? Sitting on the ground you should be able to have the plane at idle and without it being restrained it wont roll forward on it's own. If it does your idle may be too high and make it difficult to land.

On the contrary when you flare the plane at landing, you want it to stall, but you want to be as close to the runway as you can without touching the runway, just try to hold the plane a couple inches above the runway for as long as it will stay in the air. When it stalls it will settle a couple inches to the runway and it will be VERY smooth.

You may also try your landing pattern at a lower altitude, if your diving into final trying to make the runway your going to build up speed that needs to be bled off before you can land. Or try extending the lenth of your final farther out so you have more time to bleed off speed before your over the runway. If you steepen up the approach angle your going to build more speed for landing, unless you are using flaps.

Most important is finding out how slow it will fly (again find this out at altitude) and then you know to keep it slightly above that speed during your final. The farther you are above stall speed the greater the safety margain but remember to get a good smooth landing it needs to stall during the flare a couple inches above the runway. It just takes practice.

Cogburn

If you learn how to do a foward slip you can bleed off all that speed that you are having a problem with. To do this you cross control the elevator and ailerons to come in 'sideways' adding alot of drag. When you get close to the runway or slowed down to where you want you can release both rudder and aileron and land.

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

Increase the propellor blade swept area. Do that by getting rid of the three blade and using a larger diameter two blade, possibly flatter pitch. Doing this dramatically increases drag when the engine is at idle and makes speed control on approach far easier.

John

Pilot Chad

My Feedback: (4)

also might want to ask this question in the warbird forum

tIANci

T34 does not typically land hot at all. As advised ... check idle, landing pattern and perhaps is it nose heavy? Mine comes in ever so sweet and easy. You really need to flair the plane as you come in for landing, that bleeds off speed.

AP

I would use channels 1 and 6 using flaperons. It will slow you down a lot. I use flaperons on my Edge for every landing

YNOT

All airplanes fly different and T-34's land like a warbird.

Who-ever recomended going from a trainer to T-34 must have been joking or is the standard Internet Ace who has no clue of the order to take when learning how to fly.

BTW, Mustangs fly and land nice, however it wouldn't be recomended after a trainer either.

rb4123

Like stated before, find the stall speed, and try to fly your final approach about 5 mph faster. With full scale, you have to keep some power on, and the best way to lose altitude without speeding up is to pitch up with less power. As long as it stays above the stall speed, you can lose serious altitude very quick. As for the sideslip, you need to roll the plane one direction, use opposite rudder, and keep the nose down. The plane should be tracking 20-30 degrees to one side from straight flight. If you have a sim, try it there fisrt. It's not the best to bleed speed, but it can get you down VERY fast without accellerating.

RichD

huh? as hard as it is to stall an edge? thats why they dont make "good" IMAC aircrafts... cant naturally go into an upright spin... or so I have heard, since I havent flown an edge

but a good idea nonetheless

pauluk2w

My Feedback: (7)

I will have to disagree I think the T-34 is a great plane to fly especially the world models T-34. I have owned a hanger 9 T-34 and i have to say that particular plane is not a good second plane as it is just so snappy I have been building a top-flite t-34 for some time now (until i ran out of money) and have to say it has a huge amount of dihedral built into the wing. i would also say that the great planes stuka 60 makes a good second plane a lot of you may disagree with that but once it is trimmed out it fly's like a low wing trainer. it has little to no stall characteristics the only thing it usually does is drop it's nose. a mustang is NOT a good second plane and all the ones i have flown have to be landed hot or it will tip stall. my advice to anyone looking at the hanger9 T-34 as a second plane is don't

Fastsky

Re: "finding out how slow it will fly (again find this out at altitude)" < this should be done with every plane so that you know what you have to work with. Its better to find out with lots of height and know, than to be low to the ground and not know!! I had a Brightstar low wing that would come in very hot until I found out that it could be slowed down to a crawl and keep flying with good control. Then I found out that if I held in in lots of up elevator when it was coming in, I could slow it down to a walk and land like a feather. Actually I worked on landing it smooth at higher speeds and liked it so now a high speed lander doesn't bother me. [8D]

forestroke

to reiterate the two points i think are key in the previous posts:

1. see how slow it will fly - good to know when it will stall so that you don't come beneath that speed.
2. making sure it's not nose heavy - getting the CG right will help A LOT in coming in more gentle

and to add one of my own

trim for landing - if you're flying a long approach and you want to continue to do so, you need to trim for landing. you are generally flying at a throttle setting close to your level flight setting which could be very fast in order to maintain that shallow approach provided you are not using elevator to maintain it. if you like that approach i suggest you do some fly bys and see how many clicks of elevator you need to slow it down while still flying level. then before you come for the approach, trim it to the preset amount (this can be mixed into a switch or dial). this should change the attitude of the plane and allow you the shallow glide that you like but allowing you to slow down enough so that you're not always overshooting the runway.

i woudn't recommend that you use flaperons on the t-34 since the ailerons extend for nearly the entire trailing edge. but you can always experiment with them. of course, remember to do this 3 mistakes high since flaperons can induce several unwanted effects including ballooning and axial instability.

caseyh46

My Feedback: (1)

I just re-balanced the plane and it checks out perfectly balanced as per the instructions. I have tried the high altitude stall test and it seems fine... guess it's just me, I need to steepen the approach is the only thing I can figure...

pauluk2w

My Feedback: (7)

if you steepen the approach too much you are going to increase airspeed when you say the landings are hot just how hot are we talking? are comparing it to a trainer? its all trial and error until you find a way you are comfortable with

forestroke

casey - i also like a long approach... why not set the throttle at some level above stall and fly it in using elevator to keep altitude. you can still maintain the shallow approach but will come in a lot slower. if you take a long approach with the elevator at neutral then of course you will be coming in fast. in fact... if you have a mechanical trim radio, next time you are up, when you are 3 mistakes high, put the mechanical trim all the way down and see if you can fly around like that a few circuits... if you can, next time you want to land, just do that... put the trim all the way down and you can fly it in with throttle. i have done this for many of my planes that come in "hot"... and it works!

steepening the approach will work too, but leaves little time to adjust for landing.

caseyh46

My Feedback: (1)

Mr Paul,
When I say hot I'd have to say hot enough to take almost 200 foot to slow down enough to turn the thing around on the landing runout roll. 200 ft is about half our runway.. touches down sweet and all but wow just really fast... thanks for all the advice though.. I'll definately try some of these things.. I know it'll slow down, I just have to make it do it. and, just for the record, I am landing it at idle... the final half (last two turns) of my final circuit are at idle, and when it's on the ground at idle it needs no restraint...
Casey

camss69

My Feedback: (46)

steepening the approach will work too, but leaves little time to adjust for landing.
[/quote]


How is steepening the approach going to work? Your trading altitude for airspeed, altitude goes down airspeed goes up, until you bleed it off again which lengthens time required to slow it down and causes you to overshoot the runway or land it hot. Flaps are for steepening up the approach angle WITHOUT increasing airspeed. A forward slip will do the same, but why make things difficult. check your idle, if your balanced right and your idle is right, then your approach is too steep, too short, or a combination. If it won't slow down like it *should (whatever that may be) without falling out of the sky then your plane is too heavy for some reason. How does your plane compare to other similar planes at the field as far as landing speed?

forestroke

casey - i guess i missed that "idle" word in your originaly post. i think we just misundertand each other on the long and shallow part. long and shallow to me insinuated that you are flying near cruising speed as you come for the approach using little or no elevator. then reducing the throttle would slow you down but put you in a much steeper glide slope. but if you are making your last TWO turns at idle then you aren't having a LONG, SHALLOW glide slope but a normal one. my fault for missing the "idle" but there's no way that you come in for two turns and still maintain what you claim to be a long and shallow path.

in fact the only explanation is that your glide path may be TOO STEEP. clearly if you are already coming in on idle for the last two turns and still landing hot, the only way to do it is to lower the entry point and force yourself to use both elevator AND THROTTLE. this is the only way to land slowly... you need to master both. i land very slow on all my planes. the only plane that landed fast was my pattern plane but that is because it was heavy as a brick and nose heavy. all my other planes from 30-60 sizes land within 60ft. naturally it also depends on the wind conditions.

casey - learning to use the throttle and elevator is only way to consistently achieve a slow, smooth landing.

a65l

My Feedback: (17)

WM T-34 is about as far from a scale warbird as you can get, and it definetly does not fly like one.
Your balance is good, so:

1. try and set your idle speed lower. It's a light plane, and if the engine is running fast, it's not gonna want to slow down.

2. Try and "aerobrake". If your balance is correct, the plane will be rather "light" on the nosewheel. Once you're on the deck, apply some up elevator to lift the nosewheel in the air. This is the tricky part, you have to be going slow enough not to lift back off again. Wait untill the plane is slow enough (in your estimation) not to fly again, then pull some up elevator, not much. If you get it spot on, the nose wheel will lift up in the air and stay there for a bit. I fly off asphalt, and all my planes roll forever, but doing that not only really looks cool but helps to slow the plane down.

3. Get some small "o" rings, and install them between the inboard wheel collar and the wheel. When you install the outer wheel collar, put some pressure on the wheel and the "O" ring, which will work as brakes. ONLY ON THE MAINS!

Maybee I've lost some perspective, but it always seemed to me like the WM T-34 landed slower than my Avistar. But then again, most of my flying lately has been a pattern plane and a couple larger warbirds, so my idea of "slow" might be a little off kilter... I'll have to charge mine up and go fly it next weekend. It's a real touch and go machine...


Andy

tIANci

Whoever says to use flapperons on the T34 must be kidding! Also whoever says it lands like a warbird, hot has got to be kidding too. The plane comes in so easy ... and please I do not fly turbines or ducted fans! T34 is the perfect first low wing plane. I think my roll out on landing is something like only 30'-40'.

Also for landing when you are doing the final approach (I know its more info and might get confusing) the THROTTLE is for keeping RATE OF DESCENT and ELEVATOR controls the SPEED. Elevator will flair the plane and that slows it down. When you are flying slow the nose points up and to keep the plane at the desired rate of descent you use the throttle.

glowplug

My Feedback: (1)

Casey, I agree on the guys that are saying it could be nose heavy.......I know that you said you re-checked the balance, but check it one more time......put it towards the rear of the recommended range. Balance it upside down, and make sure the nose doesn't drop. I believe that this planes landing characteristics are very sensitive to CG location.

Here is the reason that I really think it's a balance issue: My first T-34 (that was lost in a midair) used to come in very hot.....I thought it was balanced well....but still, every landing was hot. After it was lost in the mid-air, I got another one......I balanced it a little further back.....and magically, it will slow down to almost a crawl.....I can bring it in nose high, and even have to stay on the throttle to control the decent.....it touches down very gently and hardly rolls out at all, and still has no bad tendencies.

tIANci

I think the best way to check for CG for a plane that is flying is to fly inverted and see how much DOWN ELEVATOR you have to give, of course the more you need to mean its nose heavy.

DBCherry

My Feedback: (4)

tIANci has a good point. If you know how to fly inverted it's a very good way to check for a nose heavy condition. Some planes will require a lot of down elevated when inverted regardless of CG (like trainers), but for the T-34....

Are you flying off a paved runway? If it's taking 200 feet to slow down enough to turn, I certainly hope so! But I agree with others that have said, if your idle is low, and your CG is right, then it's most likely that your approach really isn't all that long OR shallow.
Dennis-