caseyh46

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Hmmmm night flight certainly would throw me off in a hurry... that is really amazing... I couldn't imagine flying around watching only a red and green light and making sure the attitude was correct just from that. Those guys are truly gifted...

I too think I will be doing some experiments this weekend at the field. I'm trying to make a list of things to "try" while I'm flying and I was also going to ask a few of the guys what they look at when they fly... and also what they end up noticing about a model when they're just watching it fly... is it then when we tend to pay attention to the details? Or what?

I thought about making few categories such as:

What I'm watching as the airplane takes off...
What I'm watching as the plane makes the first turn (to the right for my field)...
Spin?
Snap?
Hover attempt (pathetic attempt)...
Loop?
And of course I would like to try these maneuvers (especially the fly by's) ad different rates of speed to see what a difference speed makes in trying to "notice" stuff
Any others?

I spoke to one of our Naval Flight Surgeons (flight docs) this morning about this. Luckily he's the one that taught my flight physiology classes in college... Anyway he thought this was interesting. What he told me was allot like a previous post in that at distances we can see more or less detail depending on how far the bird is away from us. He gave me an example of how we really use our peripheral vision and attention to detail when we fly... such as: when I fly my t-34... the wings are the same top and bottom as is the fuse... but on the bottom of the wing I also have one blue stripe from the front of the wing to the rear that's about 4 inches wide, and why do you think this stripe is there? Of course... so I can tell which is up and which is down.

He said that while I may not consciously notice myself paying attention or taking note of the stripe that subconsciously my mind or eyes are looking for that stripe when I know I want to stop right side up... get it? like if I want to be flying straight and level after a series of rolls or whatever my eyes are looking for the stripe specifically and as soon as I notice it and stop the roll then I go back to flying the "blob" so to speak until my mind realizes taht I need another point or refrence before I get messed up again... I thought this was pretty good information considering he admitted to never really messing with RC aircraft but lots of time messing with pilots and full scale hornets...

Anyway... what do you guys think of his "quick and dirty" assessment of what we do?


Casey

bubbagates

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Pretty cool Casey,

I like the idea of doing the categories and now you have me thinking of doing the same thing to see if I notice anything else that I did not mention in my previous post.

I really "see" (pun intended) allot of benefit in this thread [sm=thumbup.gif]

DBCherry

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rcjon and your flight surgeon both make excellent points, and I think that's what I was trying to say in some respects.

Early on finding the planes orientation, especially in a roll let's say, was very important. I had to "see" it in order to fly through the roll. But as I've gained experience it's no longer necessary to see the top or the bottom of the wing, because I "know" through sticks inputs and other cues when the plane will be right side up or inverted.

It may well be true that as the flight surgeon said, my mind has adapted itself to picking up on cues subconsciously. Not sure.
Dennis-

caseyh46

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Well... got to fly this morning.. not nearly as much as I had planned because of other issues so I only ended up getting a few flights in but I tried to pay attention to what I was doing..

It turns out that I DO fly the gear on takeoff and landing... who would've thunk it... certainly not me... I did a series of touch-n-go's and there was no denying that I was flying the gear... a surprise to me..

During a loop I'm pretty sure I was focusing on the canopy to emmpennage part of the plane...

Rolling I found myself waiting to see that stripe so I'd know to re-center the sticks... anticipation plays a big role here I think because I have a lot of flights on this plane... during the role I thinnkn I was trying to watch the canopy of the plane or center mass when I couldn't see the stripe..

I"m kind of disappointed that I didnt get more flights in and actually found it difficult to try 'catch myself" paying attention to something without conciously paying attention to it... if that makes any friggin sense LOL...

I'm very surprised though that I fly the landing gear on takeoff and especially the first turn after takeoff..

Same goes for landing... ended up paying attention to the pitch by watching the nose shifting over to watching those landing gear wheels when I'm about to cross the threshold of the runway...

Try some of these things... I'm very surprised that I didn't know what I was doing until I analyzed what I'm doing...

One thing.. after doing some of these tiny expirements I felt much more comfortable landing and doing touch-n-go's than I normally do... I'm not sure if it's because I'm becoming more aware of my actions or just because I was having one of those "good" days....

Anyway... I look forward to hearing if anyone else tried these ultra nerdy expirements and learned something...
Casey

bubbagates

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Casey,

It's amazing what you "normally" do unconsiously when you sit back and analyze it....

I had all plans on doing the "experiment" but the weather gods gave us 30+ shifting crosswinds all day today even though the rain they said would come hasn't yet.

You can bet that when I do get to the field I will do this and report back

onrecess

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Funny you said that, I just saw a show on Discovery or somewhere where they found dolphins could interpret commands by minimal clues. They put white balls on the hands of a trainer and filmed them all blacked out against a black background so all you saw was two white balls on a black screen and the balls moved in the hand command sequences. They said this was proof of the great intelligence of the dolphins, as they interpret by these minimalistic visual clues- just as we do.
Since I'm posting such off the wall stuff... I also remember seeing how they computer model super-realistic movements (as in the Jurassic Park movie) by using the same balls at body joints against a blank background as the framework model.
Oh, and thanks for the web site link. I gotta go check that out.

bubbagates

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Casey,

I did the experiment today using 3 different planes with 3 flights on each and what I found was pretty much what I posted earlier. I wouold like to suggest that everyone try this little experiment. You may be amazed at what you really do see and do and if you can use the list below and have someone take the notes while you describe what you are doing so much the better.

I can defintely see where doing this will help improve your flying in more ways than just the purpose of the thread but it's well worth the time and effort. I am normally a pretty decent pilot (not bragging, just trying to make a point) and have had competition pilots watch and rate my abilities and doing this little thing showed me that little thing that I was missing to be even smoother and more precise and safer

Here is the list of what I looked for:

1.) Takeoff
2.) Low speed pass
3.) High speed pass
4.) Vertical climb
5.) Vertical dive
6.) Inverted level flight
7.) Inverted climb
8.) Inverted shallow dive
9.) Knife Edge
10.) Fast roll
11.) Slow roll
12.) Four Point roll
14.) Tumbles
14.) Landing

Things like stopping a roll precisely where I wanted it, keeping the line straight on all of the rolls, vertical maneuvers, and Kinfie Edges. All items where way easier when there was a darker base color with contrasting shapes/letters/whatever (no geometric shapes on any of the test planes. I'm sure the opposite is true (light background, dark shapes) but all my planes are dark on the bottom with the exception of the WH Ultimate which is not finished being built yet so I could not test it.

The Funtana and the Extra where way easier to be more precise (which also has to do with the planes abilities) but I found it way easier to consistently stop the maneuver/hold a straight line, when there was more of a contrast. The speed of the maneuver was not too much of a problem but I am sure that a SIG Something Extra rolling at half throttle on high rates, no amount of contrast will help and it's a blur after 3 rolls anyway

Here are the 3 planes I used. All different types and abilities.