cat250

You may remember the phrase "I'm Mad as H**L and I'm not gonna take it anymore"

Bare with me folks, I'm seething and wondering if I should even be typing now.

I'm a trainee with a great club with a variety of great instructors. My trainer is a H9 Alpha 40 with a GMS 40. I bought the plane at a later date than the engine. I am happy with the GMS 40 which I purchased from Richmond RC. So lets say I'm hooked on RC Glow flying and I have heard you should start constructing your second model the minute you finish your first. I thought based on the comments I read on RCU that I would transition from a flat bottom trainer to a high wing aerobatic trainer. I did my research and tried unsucessfully to buy a World Models WorldStar 40 but could not get a definitive date on delivery to the US distributor or a on-line HS. I ordered the plane anyway and eventually cancelled the order. Why I did not think to stay in the H9 family and buy the Arrow 40 is something I'm unsure about to this day. The Alpha 40 ARF is a quality plane with decent hardware and no construction snafus that a this beginner could see. Well I started my search for a Aerobatic trainer again and noticed a review on RCU of the VMAR/RichmondRC Hornet. Now I had already read plenty about poor quality and customer service from the MFG/Dist but this review seemed to indicate that VMAR/RichmondRC had learned from it's mistakes and the QC control was being improved. Reading a review is very nice but still Caveat Emptor should be the lesson for the day. The reviewer had a good experience with his plane so I liked the color scheme of the plane and the video on RCU showed a plane that was as capable as the pilot. So I took the plunge.

When the plane arrived at my place of work I was very impressed with the packing and the sturdyness of the outer box. I opened the box within a hour of receiving to do a quick visual of the contents. No problems noted( a good sign) I read the instruction manual prior to opening any of the parts which seemed to be packed cleanly with cardboard guards covering the aileron control rods to protect against puncturing the wing packed above or below it's mate.

So I pulled the left side per the instructions along with the joiner and pegs and the aileron moved freely and equally in both directions. I dry fitted the joiner and pegs on the left wing panel and got prepared to mix the epoxy to afix the joiner and pegs. At that point experience from my trainer told me to dry fit the right panel before I glued the joiner. GOOD thing I did. When I removed the right wing panel I noticed that the aileron was at full deflection even with the aileron rod covered by the guard. I then removed the guard and nothing happened! The aileron remained at full deflection where as the left panel moved freely in relation to how it was held.

So, I start to move the aileron via the control rod and noticed immdiately that it was VERY stff. It appears that the chap who bulit this wing placed it so that some of the wings weight was carried by the aieleron torque rod and thus it shifted. It may be hard to visualize but when I dry fit the win halves together the the servo attachment points for the control rod were at least 3/4" different in orientation and length. The left panel offers the same amount of deflection up or down. Because the rod slipped on the other panel you would be lucky to get 1/4" deflection up but your get 3-D travel down. To match the upper deflection of the good half requires that you push the torque rod into the covering on the bad half. If you add some elbo grease you can get additional deflection but you can feel the entire wing structure tighten. I don't care what anyone says, this shouldn't be this way.

At this point I called Richmond RC and this is when my blood pressure went through the roof. The gentlemen at Richmond RC that I spoke with was pleasant. I calmly described visually what I saw as the problem. I mentioned the orientation of the torque rod and how it was positioned in it's wing half versus how the the torques rod was positioned on the good half. After trying various ways to verbilize this problem I was met with "I'm not sure what you are saying", again I try to paint the picture of a missapplied torque rod. Again I'm met with the same "I'm not sure I can understand the problem". At this point I just say the wing is defective and I would simply like to have another shipped. The response this time seems to indicate a better understanding but the response is "may not be a problem" and a replacement "may not be neccesary". The person at Richmond RC requests that I make photo's of the wing halves dry fitted and send to them so they can see the problem. I'm thinking that if you really know your product, a sketch by Leonardo Divinci isn't going to provide a picture other than that the wing is fouled up.

I work as a Materials Manager directly responsible for purchasing. When I buy a product from either a distributor or directly from the manufacturer I expect that the Quality Control at the MFG is robust enough to detect problems and correct them as a means to eliminating quality problems. This plane cost me $$105 US including shipping. Given that it was constructed in Vietnam my guess is the cost was in the neighborhood of $20-$30. Now, if I have a problem in my line of work I have to balance the cost of talking to a vendor, describing the problem, and arranging for return. If this product cost less than $100 my company will spend more to complain and return than the product is worth and we would be better served to place it in the dumpster and then find a more quality conscious Distributor/MFG.

I was going to fly tomorrow morning. Instead, since I don't own a digital camera I will be taking the wing halves to work and taking pictures with my companies camera per RichmondRC's request.

What do I ultimately Want? Well for one I wanted a quality product the first time. Second I wanted a distributor of my faulty product to make the decision to correct the probem immediately in order to make me happy. I would have expected that to be the norm with VMAR/RichmondRC given their less than stellar reputation with the members of RC Universe.

So tomorrow I'm making pictures and I'll include a shot of my Hangar 9 Alpha wing to show them how it should have been done. In a very small level in their defense they have not had time to respond to "my pictures". They in fact may decide I'm not full of it and send me a new wing but because they are putting me in a position that I have to prove the defect they are on the s**t list with me now. It's really sad because I am absolutely drooling over the VMAR MIG-21. Needless to say if they do not correct my problem I am tempted to rekit this arf and send it back to them. Yep, you betcha, I 'm mad as hell I'm I'm not gonna take it anymore.

Like Death and Taxes be assured I'll be reporting back as to the outcome of my complaint

Jay Wood
AMA 821563

piper_chuck

My Feedback: (12)

Jay, go flying today. I should be home this morning (I've got yard work to do) and I only live about 10 minutes from the field. I've got a couple digital cameras. Bring the wing with you and give me a call. You can swing by the house and we can take some pics.

gboulton

My Feedback: (15)

Jay,

First of all, let me say that you and I sound similar...we demand quality work when we grant our custom to an organization, and expect nothing short of stellar support from that organization. If we part with our hard earned dollar, there needs to be some genuine VALUE in return.

I suspect we similarly REWARD those organizations/vendors who DO live up to our expectations by becoming fiercely loyal customers.

So please understand that I'm NOT 'ripping into you' here...I think we're two peas in a pod.

That being said, I must admit that I'm having a difficult time visualizing the problem as you describe it...I THINK I have a handle on it, but I'm not sure. In all honesty, had you been asking 'how do I fix this?' I would ask for a picture myself, to be sure I was clear on the issue.

It sounds to me like, so far anyway, their response and request have been reasonable, though admittedly not what I'd call 'exceptional'.

Consider that a few of things are possible:

1) Perhaps they've been victimized by customers taking advantage of them due to their earlier poor reputation, and wish to be sure that there is, indeed, a problem.

2) Perhaps they have every intent of resolving the issue as quickly and efficiently as possible, but wish to make sure they are resolving it in the manner that most quickly gets YOU flying. Consider that it's POSSIBLE (from their point of view anyway) that his is a 'minor' isssue with some hidden, but easily implemented, repair, and once the see the pics they just say 'Oh...sorry...i see now..just jiggle X while Joggling Y and it'll clear right up'. Were that the case, they would have saved you several days of transit time.

I guess my point here is this...I agree with you, things SHOULD be done right the first time...but in the event they're not, I think it's fair and reasonable of the company to want to be certain of the nature of the issue before suggesting a course of action or offering a remedy.

If, upon seeing the issue in pictures, they act quickly, efficiently, and fairly to fix the problem with a minimum of time and expense to you, then I think I'd be willing to call it an 'acceptable' experience.

Just my $0.02

bruce88123

On the other hand cat250, I think I understand exactly what you are saying/complaining about. I also believe that if there is an easy fix ,that Piper Chuck will see it and save you some trouble and otherwise you will at least have your pictures.

Good luck either way.

Mustang Man-RCU

cat250,
When I spoted this thread my first thought was" Oh no, not again". I do a lot of building/assembling for guys in my area and I have put several VMAR products together over the last few years. I'm sorry to say that not one of these projects have gone smoothly. I have spent more time on the phone and sending e-mails back and forth with the people at Richmond RC trying to explain and rectify problems with VMAR products than I care to think about. I could fill pages with details of my experience with these guys and VMAR stuff and sadly, none of it would be positive so I wont bother. Suffice it to say I learned a very valuable lesson as a result of my experience with these people and VMAR.
When someone asks me if I will put their VMAR product together, I'm just way too busy and cant possibly fit it in.
I wish you the best of luck with resolving your problem and sincerly hope there has been a change in attitude toward the customer at Richmond RC but I'm one of those guys that will only be treated that way once. I dont need that kind of grief.
Good luck.
Steve

Pilot Chad

My Feedback: (4)

I hated my VMAR too.

bruce88123

Chad, make up your mind. You said before that you loved it with the exception of the covering.

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Somehow I got the impression that you liked your Vmar Vstik, at least that's what you were saying about it. The only thing that you didn't like was the covering but you were going to recover it. So what was it? Did you love it like you said, or did you hate and just told us that you loved it? I'm just curious because you did a 180° turn with no warning, and it kind of had a few of us confused about it.

Ken

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

Since when???

YOU quoted many many times that you loved your VMAR Stik. It met it's demise because of pilot error as you mentioned in your thread, so I'm very very curious as to how you can possibly make a statement like this.

Please help us all to understand.

Fastsky

Good luck with getting your money back if you send the kit back to Richmond RC. I read where one flyer finally "got permission" to send a kit back because of all the things that were wrong with the kit. He sent the kit back and it took another 6 months of emails and phone calls before they refunded his money![>:]

Pilot Chad

My Feedback: (4)

I hated it after the covering came off. That made me extremely mad, and also the wood that it was biult with was crap. You guys jsut go out of your way to contradict me. Other than the quality of the plane, it flew great. Just not one to look at and not durable.

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

How can we possibly contradict something you wrote???

ckangaroo70

My Feedback: (51)

Quote: "I am so utterly happy with this Plane!"

I wonder how many people rushed out and bought one of these Planes after reading your post with quotes such as above? Peoples opinions are allowed to change, but some of your earlier post do seem to suggest that the Vmar Stick was the best thing since Hot Apple Pie. I own an Old Vmar Stick 60, and I would not recommend it to anyone even though I do enjoy flying the Plane, and the Plane flys well. It was just constructed poorly out of inferior materials, and not really that good of a bargain compared to other low cost aircraft that are of much higher quallity. I have stated some good points about it, and some bad. Readers can judge my assessment of the Plane, and make their own decisions.

My point is that when you offer your review of a Plane, it ought to point out what you like and what you don't like. Then as time goes by you can then reaccess your remarks, and make corrections as you learn more about the Plane, so readers who may be interested in what you post can take usefull information from what you say. So you might do readers a better service if you detail at what point you went from thinking it was awesome to thinking it was awefull just as a courtesy to readers who may be confused about your opinions at this point!

Cat250
I really hope you get that linkage problem straightened out. There was a review here on RCU that basically says that Plane is the greatest since Hot Apple Pie. Hope he don't come in here now and tell you the Plane sucks! Hopefully you will be able to get the linkage fixed, and the Plane will fly great like the reviews say, and you will get many happy flights with it! Good Luck!

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

Well. for a really loooong post it sounds like you have a bent aileron rod that is a 2 minute fix and for $100 for a built covered vietnam made plane you got exactly what you paid for if not better...go buy a $70 kit and 2 rolls of covering $20 plus and see if you can get someone to build and cover it for $10?...piper chuck can probably fix it for you, he's a good guy, I know from experience...you may be able to just "customize" the linkage, I guarantee you DONT want to send a whole kit back because of a stiff \ bent aileron linkage problem..just my 2 cents,,not criticizing you ,just a reality check..I got a .40 trainer off the bay for $41 and $20 shipping,the next day bay said they pulled his stuff and he was a fraud,, I figure, crap I lost $61 on a money order cause you cant stop payment on one...well a week later I got a trainer at my front door ..so I emailed bay and told them about it.....Rog

piper_chuck

My Feedback: (12)

I hope I can live up to the expectations set by Rog and Bruce.

mvigod

I am closing this thread now. I will reopen it once the original poster has sent his digital photos to the mfg and has given them time to respond. I think it is unfair to slam them without even giving them an opportunity to see the photos and make a decision on it.

If cat250 can PM or email once he has some resolution and wishes to post it in here I'll unlock it. Until then this is all conjecture.

Cat250 wrote
In a very small level in their defense they have not had time to respond to "my pictures".