ScienceisCool

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I have been flying solo for a little while now and was wondering how much "expertise" or flights you should have before moving on to a second, low-wing plane? i know it will be different for everyone, but what should be the basic pre-requisites for moving on?

I'm really looking at the world models t-34 with a saito 56 4-stroke (my first 4-stroke)... how does that sound?

Thanks!

John

DTB

My Feedback: (15)

I am one of four AMA certified club instructors for my club. Before you move on, you should be able to take off, land, fly inverted, land deadstick, put the plane down in the same spot constantly and be able to get yourself out of trouble all without thinking about any of it too hard. You should be able to land from any direction and land crosswind. Being familar with rudder input is important. These are the most important things to me. There are ofcourse other recommendations, but these are the most important

The T-34 is a great flying plane, but it is a different type of plane. It lands a lot hotter (faster) than a flat bottom trainer, but you probably could handle it. If it is H9's T-34, be careful of the top and bottom cover as it is the same color and you can easily get backwards with it.

You may also want to consider a Ultra Stick 40 or 60. Another good choice is a Four Star 40 or 60 which is a low wing taildragger. This was my 2nd plane years ago now. I built the 60 size Four Star and I still fly it and it still flys great.

**UPDATE**
I just re-read you wanted a World Models T-34. I have flown this plane and it flys great. Still lands a little fast, but if you can do all the above items with no problem, then this plane will be a breeze. I fly the WM t-34 with a magnum 52 I think it was and it was so nice and stable. The blue and white scheme is easily distingushed apart.

The Yellow T-34 is my friends Bobby's plane, The WM T-34 is my Buddy Vincent's, my Four Star 60 with a YS .91FZ and the last photo is a photo of Bobby's Ultra Stick 40.

Liberator

Just my 2 cents, but I always have figured that when I can afford it, I have permission from the "boss", and when it makes sense, I get the next plane going. I try and plan about 2 planes ahead in terms of equipment just because it is expensive to have to re-buy stuff if you can avoid it.
I always like to have a second plane in the wings ready for gear installation. That way if somethign bad happens, I am not weeks away from flying again.

Tom

ScienceisCool

My Feedback: (1)

I'm flying an Avistar with a TT .46 Pro right now so i'm getting pretty comfortable coming in a little fast. I can land crosswind as well as any direction. The only thing i need to work on is flying inverted. I did it a little at the field today but the engine gave me a bit of trouble during it, think it might have been an air bubble in the line or something. the engine, at 3/4 throttle, cut down to just above idle and got no response from throttle input. I quickly came around for a landing and just before touchdown i gave it some throttle and it seemed to fix itself. Landed, checked it out, went up again right away with no further problems. Didn't try any more inverted flight today though, my nerves couldn't take it.

anyways, thanks for the responses. Just need to save the $$$ while i practice, practice, practice!

DTB

My Feedback: (15)

I think you are definitely on the right track with your learning. All these planes mentioned have some dihedral which helps stablize the plane more except the stick, but it is a high wing and you are looking for a low wing transition. Since you have a Avistar which is a sport trainer, you should be more familiar with a more responsive plane and a 46TT makes it fly faster also. I think once you get your inverted flying under key, you should be able to handle any of these. I do think the 4* is a better second plane simply because it can fly slower or come in faster if you like that also. It has a little more wing area, but again the T-34 shouldn't be too much of a hassle if you have mastered all the above items mentioned. The 4* flys very gentle but can be flown aggresively also. It is a very diverse plane and will grow with you as your skills are honed in more.

Like I said, I still fly my 4*60 and still love it and I am a 3D pilot. Ofcourse, I am hovering, torque rolling and flat spinning the 4* 60 now after building it years ago. It still flys great.

red head

Just a thought about your engine slowing down when inverted, may or may not help but try riching it about a click or two.

A neat way to learn inverted flight is to start with a loop and just before you get to the top ease in a little down elev. after a few tries you will get to a point that you can hold it there. One thing to remember when learning inverted flight, ALWAYS roll out, never pull out. If you pull you may just drive it in the ground --- you shouldn't be that low but --it happens. ENJOY !!!! RED

campbec

Hi John,

Go with the great advice already provided. I would echo liberator's advice and always have "something on the bench" that you can finish quickly if gravity wins the argument.

If the engine starts to quit when inverted and the high speed mixture is ok it is probably a tank position or a glow plug matter. If the tank is a little too high in relation to the carby this will still work ok until you try inverted with the tank anything but full. If the tank position and mix are ok try a new plug of the same range or slightly hotter.

Cheers,

Colin

sandfox

Sounds like everyone has offered good advice already. My second plane was a 4 star but i never got airborne with it. Got a little side tracked some years back and shelved flying altogether. As far as flying pre-requisites, I would venture to say since you are flying solo already you probably have them down. Just make sure you can fly in all types of wind conditions. I almost lost my trainer when I took off in not so ideal conditions. Make sure an experienced teacher/pilot takes off the maiden voyage and gets the the plane all trimmed out for you otherwise you should do fine.

Good luck.

saramos

My second plane was a 4 star 40. It makes a great second plane. Built stock, it will really float on the landings. Now, in my second season with the 4*, I have modified the plane by going from an OS .46LA to an OS .50SX, and removing one bay from each wing, shortenting the wingspan by about 4 - 5 inches. This adds lots of power, makes rolls much quicker, and landings are still very gentle. It's almost like gettiing a third plane for the cost of an engine. If you ever build a 4* I would recommend adding extra hinges one bay in from the tip. This will allow you to make the clipped wing mod easily.

As for when you are ready to move to a second plane, the advice given by others is good. Being able to recognize when you are getting into trouble, and getting out of it before stalling or loss of control is the biggest. I spent a lot of time putting my trainer into unusual attitudes and correcting them. I spend a lot of time practicing stalls and flying near stall speed.

Scott

FlyinTiger

My Feedback: (45)

No one has mentioned this yet, but with students that are ready to progress I always suggest they INCREASE the THROWS on their existing plane to make it more responsive...you'll be surprised at how differently a plane flies with more elevator, aileron, and rudder responsiveness!

If you have a computer radio start exploring the functions that it offers...add in a little expo with those increased throws, try out some different mixing combinations to get your plane to fly a little better, start using your rudder to coordinate your turns. You'll notice that if you start coordinating your turns on a trainer you'll have to add less power on the turn to final while landing. Plus, you will amaze your friends...

With some direction, you can still learn a LOT from your trainer, so after you get a second plane, keep your trainer around for flying (if you can afford to flight packs...RX, servos, battery, switch) so you can continue to benefit from your trainer long after you are flying that more aerobatic plane with the 4 stroke. Heck, you could even strap that 4 stroke on your trainer to break it in while you are waiting to get your plane, that way it will be ready to go when you finish building your second plane, and you will be confident in your engine.

Kudos to you for picking a 4 stroke...you may never buy a 2 stroke again, the four strokes are great engines and the most reliable I've ever had, and they sip fuel! All of the plane recommendations are great second planes! If you would like to build your second plane, don't hesitate to build while you keep progressing on your trainer. So much can be learned from building a kit rather than just assembling an ARF. Once you've built a plane you won't be afraid to make small modifications, like shortening the wingspan, as someone else has done on thier 4*...

The most important thing...always think about what you're going to do on your flight before you take off. Have a plan, have lots of fun, and learn something from EVERY flight. You will be extremely surprised at how fast you get to be an accomplished pilot by focused practice.

DTB

My Feedback: (15)

Very good advice there and I agree with that 100%. I still fly my trainer (SuperStar 40), but I have converted it to a bolt-on wing, taildragger and put a Saito 72 up front spinning an APC 13x8. Have you ever seen a trainer torque roll. It is a wild sight to see and has become a crowd pleasure during fly-ins. I even left the dihedral in the wings.

I also placed a little better photo of my 4*60. As you can see, many have agreed that the 4* is a great second plane in any size category.

FlyinTiger

My Feedback: (45)

Many people will modify their trainers so they will land on water, put a water proof radio box in and some floats on, very fun!

rwright142

I'll 2nd that! I am still in training (almost ready to solo) and when I first flew I had the throws set in the middle. After a LOT of porpoising and hard to handle maneuvers - blamed it on the wind of course - I set the throws on minimum. I am now able to handle my NexStar comfortably and can actually spend more time learning rather than fighting it.

So, I would take FlyinTiger's advice and move the throws. I would start with just 1 hole. You may want to start with the ailersons, then the rudder (you are learning how to use the rudder right?). And definitely learn dead sticks!

ScienceisCool

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks for all the advice everyone! I am learning to use the rudder, my instructor made it very clear to me that this will be important as i progress to where I want to go, warbirds. I will gradually increase the throws as well, this sounds like alot of fun waiting to happen! I've been meaning to increase them on the ailerons because it rolls very slowly right now which is good for landing and general practice but not for any kind of aerobatic maneuvers.

As for the engine stalling and fuel tank location, where should it be in relation to the carb? I think the engine is a bit lower than the tank.

almost forgot to mention that my next plane will be an ARF because i dont have a place to really build a kit, nor do i have the extra tools necessary. We live in a small apartment and if i take up any more room the better half will... well, ya know. I do plan on moving to kit planes as soon as we buy a house in the next year or two and i have a garage i can put to good use.

John

bruce88123

The Goldberg Tiger II comes in 40 and 60 sizes and is lots of fun too and good flying manners.

livinma1

My Feedback: (15)

I myself have been flying an avistar for about 2 years now and recently started to look into getting a low wing plane but unable to find one ready to fly and didn't want to build one since the season is in full swing. I had a extra 300 that I purchased off a club member last year that I never flew since my club members told me I wasn't ready for it. Well after l took it to a club members house to work on the extra he asked me if I was flying this plane and I said no because I was told not to and he got upset because he seen me fly and believed that I can handle that plane. So he was like this weekend you are flying this plane and fly it I did. A bit nerve racking but I zoned out and flew the plane. A tail dragger is definitely a different kind of plane. I was going for the sig four star and still recommend a low wing trainer. For the most part if you believe you are ready for that second plane go for it.

Mark

DTB

My Feedback: (15)

Good story Mark. I do think after 2 years you mastered the trainer to the fullest. It is good that you were able to handle the extra 300. I wouldn't recommend that to someone who hasn't been flying as long as you have. The Sig Four star is available as a Kit or an Arf. It all depends on if you want to build/modify the Four Star or just put it together in it's original form. Everyone is different in this hobby, some catch on quickly and some take longer. These rules mentioned are in the general sense of speaking. They don't apply to everyone the same. For instance, I learned quickly and now I am a certified AMA instructor for my club out of 100+ members. I agree with your statement, "For the most part if you believe you are ready for that second plane go for it., but I have seen many students who thought they were ready and ended up destroying a brand new plane because they were impatient and got a little cocky because they could take off and land a trainer. I think if others and your instructor say it, then you probably are ready, but wait for others to verify your thoughts before jumping boat.

ScienceisCool

My Feedback: (1)

i agree.. i know i'm not ready quite yet but with more practice i should be able to comfortably move on to a low wing plane in about 4-6 months.

as for which plane will be my second.. i think i've settled on the WM T-34. I like the sig 4 star but i really like the looks of the T-34 a little bit better. If i was going the racing/3D route i think i would probably chose the 4 star for sure. I think i would, personally, be happier with the t-34 in my collection.

anyways, thank you so much guys for your advice and input. i feel comfortable i'm on the right track to a successful "career."

John

DTB

My Feedback: (15)

After reading what you are able to do now except flying inverted, I seriously doubt it would take another 4-6 months. Flying inverted is an easy trick to master and you should have it mastered with practice in another month or so.

I think you will be ok with eh WM T-34. It is very stable, much more than the H9 version. I have flown them both and the WM is more stable. It lands as easy as a trainer honestly, so you will be fine with it. I would advise you to not fly it like your trainer at first because each plane is different and it will handle differently than the avistar does, but you will have no problems with it.

Good luck and take some photos of it when you get her down.

ScienceisCool

My Feedback: (1)

i will post pics when i finally get it... but it will be another 2-3 months at least before i get the $$$ to buy the plane, motor and flight pack. I'd like to keep my trainer functional because my brother is thinking about taking up the addiction...err... i mean hobby.

Thanks for your advice DTB!

John

livinma1

My Feedback: (15)

You got it right the first time "addiction". When you start sneaking planes into the house you are a certified addict.

LOL

Mark

DTB

My Feedback: (15)

When you acknowledge you are an addict. That's the first step to become worse. Now you have an excuse to do it.

SLOWFLY58

Hi John
Everything posted so far has been good solid advice, I highly recommend increasing the throws on the Avistar if you are comfortable with it now. I have been away from the sport for awhile and started back in January of this year flying the Avistar. About six weeks ago I increased the throws to around 75 degrees of deflection (THIS IS A LOT !!!) and discovered a completely different airplane !!! The guys at our club could not believe this so called "advanced trainer" could rock like this !! I had it spinning through snap rolls last week faster the the guys could could count them. I would strongly advise not to jump to this extreme all at once, take the advice from the guys who posted earlier, increase the throws but take them up one notch at a time. You mentioned that it might be a few months before your second plane is ready. That will give you plenty of time to work with this much more responsive Avistar.

Just another two cents worth.
Dale