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Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

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Old 10-10-2005, 05:54 PM
  #26
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

Dad has spoken. Are they actually into barbie or something else.

Here is a link to someone that did one. It looks like a SIG Something Extra. Kinda cool looking for being all pink

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=1971004

While your at it, check out some of the other planes it that thread, some really nice work in there
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Old 10-10-2005, 06:43 PM
  #27
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

Paul,
Thanks. That really does mean a lot coming from you.

Ken
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Old 10-10-2005, 07:09 PM
  #28
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

Ok everyone, We have been talking to SeeBee and he has decided to ask all of you to come up with the trim scheme for his plane. Ken and I will come up with a small prize (probably logos or something cut in vinyl).

What Seebee needs to do is let us know is what his daughters are into. The plane is mainly for him and his oldest daughter. So comeon' SeeBee, give us the scoop
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Old 10-10-2005, 10:32 PM
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

She likes everything little girls like barbies, dolls, butterflys, Disney princess, ect..... fav colores are purple & pink I cant think of anything more to put down right now!!!! She would be happy with just about anything. Feel free to ask any questions that you might have and I can ask her.

Thanks Jim
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Old 10-10-2005, 10:51 PM
  #30
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

thanks for doing this build thread Ken i will be starting by LT-40 build tomorrow and will follow this religiously for ideas. And the build could not be for a better cause. Keep up the good work

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Old 10-11-2005, 01:11 AM
  #31
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

When I first said I would do this build we (seebee1) and I didn't really have a covering design in mind. I was going to work up something when I got closer. But after some PM'ing back and forth during the day today we have come up with a different idea. We've decided to let you all, the RCU community, design the covering for Seebee. Remember that this plane is being built for him and his daughter, here is what Seebee posted about it earlier in the thread

Quote:
She likes everything little girls like barbies, dolls, butterflys, Disney princess, ect..... fav colores are purple & pink I cant think of anything more to put down right now!!!! She would be happy with just about anything. Feel free to ask any questions that you might have and I can ask her.

Thanks Jim
So Bubbagates and myself are going to run a little contest here to try and come up with the design for the plane that we are building for him. Motivation for the design should come from Seebee's daughter, and as he said above please feel free to ask him any questions you might have for her. While this is going to be a friendly contest, there are a few "ground rules" that we need to go by. They are
1. All colors used need to be those available from the line of [link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0091p?&C=QAA&V=TOP]Monokote [/link] .
2. No matter what color or design that is used please make sure you include the "Pay It Forward" and the "Navy Seebees" logos that I have included here.
3. While not mandatory we encourage the use of logos for other products used on this plane. These include Sig (LT-40), Futaba (Skysport 4 channel radio), Webra (.50 2-stroke motor), Top Flight monokote, Master Airscrew, Dubro, Tower Hobbies, and of course RC Universe. If you cannot find a good working copy of any of these logos please let me know and I'll get you copies of what you need.

So there you go. Nothing too fancy. What does the "winner" get?? Why the satisfaction of helping your fellow man or course!!! Actually, since Pay It Forward is pretty poor all around there isn't too much we can give, but I will put together a package of high quality vinyl graphics for the winner. I'll include the following:
2 ea, 4" RCU logos (your choice of color)
4 ea, 2" RCU logos (your choice of color)
2 ea, 3" Pay it Forward logo
4 ea, 2" Pay it Forward logo
6 each, pilot's name graphics (i.e. Pilot: John Doe) (your choice of color)
I'll see if we can't come up with a few more graphics to throw into the prize.

I'm included in this post a 3 view of the Sig LT-40 for you to use to design the covering scheme. I have a larger version of this file available on one of my servers:
[link=http://www.rcgraphicszone.com/rcstuff/LT-40_seebee1_large.jpg]Sig LT-40 3 view drawing[/link] . I've also included a copy of the PIF logo and a Navy Seebee logo for you to use.

Ok, I think that is it for now. If you have any questions about the design make sure you ask Seebee about it. Also, I'll be more than happy to answer any questions that I can.

That's it for now

Ken
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Old 10-11-2005, 10:31 AM
  #32
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

Yeah, I finally got to start building. When you are building there are a lot of tips that can help your building techniques, but there is one that in my opinion is the most important to learn and remember.

“Measure twice, cut once.” Sounds simple, but I see a lot of people really mess things up by not following this advice. When you are cutting take your time, you really can't undo a cut. Yes, you can sometimes glue things back together. But this causes all kinds of problems, so it's easier to just get it right the first time. I will usually measure/mark where I am going to cut. Then I will remove the piece to cut, and then place it back on the plans and measure again to check and see if it's still the same. I don't know how many times I have found that I was off when I made my first mark, and the double check saves me from screwing up.

The first thing done to to double up the main spars. The main spars are constructed from the 1/4”x1/2”x36” hardwood piece and the 1/4”x1/2”x10-1/8” balsa piece. Be very careful when you pull the 36” spar material, because there are two 36” pieces with the same dimensions. One is hardwood and is used for the main spars in this step, and the other is balsa and is used elsewhere. It's easy to use the wrong piece in a situation like this, but that could cause major problems. The hardwood is used for the spar and it is this piece that is the backbone for the entire wing, if you use the balsa piece here by mistake the wing will end up being weak and will likely fail in flight. Glue the smaller piece to the end of 36” hardwood spar and clamp the two together until the glue dries (see pictures). Once the glue dries you can remove the clamps and proceed to the next step.

Locate the main spar on the plans and pin it to the board in place. Make sure the inside edge of the spar is accurately located on the plans. Take extra care when securing this spar to the building board. The entire wing will be built off of this spar and you don't want it moving around as you built, this would result in a wing that is warped or crooked. Once you have the spar completely secured you will cut it even with the outside edge of the outside rib. Use a razor saw to cut this off (and remember “measure twice, cut once”).

Find piece WS-B2, which is a piece of sheeting. This will be placed between the main and the rear spar. For those using CA, you'll put this piece in place and then run CA along the front edge where the sheeting meets the main spar. For me using wood glue I place a bead of glue along the edge of the sheet and put it place. Once I have it in place I'll use magnets to secure it in place.

Locate the 1/4”x3/8”x36” balsa stick used for the rear spar. According to the plans this piece is supposed to be done the same way as the main spar, in the fact that the spar is secured on the plans and then is cut at the outside edge of the outside rib. I did that procedure on the main spar only to show how the instructions tell you how to do it. I don't like cutting it in place because it's hard to cut without loosening your magnets/pins, it tears up the plans underneath as you cut, and it's hard to cut it straight (see attached picture). For this spar (and the rest in this build) I placed the spar in place on the plans and then I marked where the cut should be (remember, measure/mark twice- cut once) and then used a miter box and razor saw to make the cut.

Although it wasn't listed in the “nice to have” list of tools you should consider getting a miter box. This let's you make very straight cuts with a razor saw and will help improve your build. I like the new Midwest (shown in pictures) miter box because it's got cuts for 0°, 22.5°, 30°, 45°, and 60°. And it also has a grid of holes inside the box and there are three pegs that can be used to secure your work while you cut. I highly recommend getting it.

Ok, once the rear spar was cut to length I went and put it in place. The rear spar needs to be glued to the bottom sheeting that was put in place earlier. I marked where the piece will attach, and placed glue on the rear spar. I then secured the rear spar to the plans, making sure it was completely straight across the length of the wing. Just like the main spar, the rear spar needs to be straight and kept secure in order to build the wing properly.

One thing that some people won't do when the to a build thread such as this is admit when they screw up. In the spirit of hoping that others will learn from my mistakes, I will admit to a screw up . Although it wasn't a huge one. When the WS-B2 is in place it is actually the sheeting for the skin of the wing, therefore it should be on the outside of the wing surface, and flush with the spars that it is attached too. When I put the rear spar in place, and glued WS-B2 to the rear spar I didn't have spar tight against the building board. Because of this WS-B2 wasn't even with the outside edge of the rear spar. Luckily I noticed this before I went any further, and I was able cut the rear spar away from WS-B2, reposition the parts, and re-glue them. If I hadn't noticed it at this step the only thing I would be able to do later on would have been to sand and/or fill in the mistake. So, I got lucky and I was able to correct the problem.

Pictures
1. Applying glue to 1/4”x1/2”x10-1/8” balsa piece before glueing it to the 36" main spar
2. Main spars clamped while glue dries.
3. Sawing off the main spar.
4. Applying glue to the edge of the first piece of sheeting
5. Example of crooked freehand cut
6. Midwest miter box. Makes getting straight cuts very easy.
7. Securing the WS-B2 sheeting.
8. Both spars, main and rear, in place secured to the building board.
9. A look down the spars from the inside edge of the wing.
10. A look down on spar from above. This shows the alignment on the lines printed on the plans.
11. A look down on both spars from above.
12. Both spars and sheeting secured in place.



Until next time

Ken
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Old 10-11-2005, 10:39 AM
  #33
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

It seems we're getting into a rhythm now on how I'm going to post. The amount of information I post, or how many steps I cover is pretty much limited to the number of pictures I can post at once. I can only post 12 pictures at a time, so each construction post I make is going to be limited to how many pictures I can post that support the text in each post. One thing I wanted to do from the start of this build thread is to make sure there are pictures of everything that I do on the build. The old saying “A picture is worth a thousand words” really is true. So I hope that I'm letting everybody have plenty of chances to see what is going on. Like I said in one of the first posts, if there is something that you don't see in the pictures I post please let me know and I'll see if I can't get a picture for you. Trust me, I have tons of pictures that aren't getting posted in this thread.

After laying down the rear spar the next step is going to be another piece of sheeting (WS-B3) that spans between the rear spar and the trailing edge. When we get to the trailing edge there is a huge note that should be read and understood, otherwise there could be a lot of confusion about what is going on with the build. The trailing edge is already notched for you to place each rib in. These notches are the gospel of where the ribs are placed. And this is what the note tells you. If the notches in the trailing edge don't match up with the plans, then you should use the notches on the trailing edge as your guide to placing the ribs in the wing. The plans tell you that it's possible for the plans to shrink or expand and that could cause the notches to not match the trailing edge. While this is true, it's also possible that you don't have to plans completely flat and stretched out when you pinned them down. If the plans are WAY off (not just a little bit) you might want to consider repositioning the plans on your building board. If so, carefully pull the pins out holding down your work up to this point. Once your work is free move it out of the way. Remove your plan protector and remove the tape holding the plans down. To reposition the plans tape down one side and use your hand to smooth out and stretch out the plans moving away from the edge that you have taped down. You can double check against the trailing edge while you stretch. You might be surprised just how much the plans were off. Once you have it close you need to get everything back on the board. Replace you plan protector. Carefully re-pin your work to the board, a making sure it's all in the correct position as it goes back down, and that the spars are once again straight.

Before I put down the trailing edge, I need to to lay down the next piece of sheeting which goes between the rear spar and the trailing edge. Putting in the piece of sheeting is just like that last one that I put down. I put a bead of glue on the sheeting and glued it to the rear spar. Just like before you'll want to make sure it's all weighted down it's flush with the bottom of the rear spar. You don't have to wait for this glue to set before you move on to the trailing edge. That is one thing I like about working with wood glue, I've got about 30 minutes before the glue sets, so I can put several items on and then wait for them all to set. As the instructions said, I placed the trailing edge down lined up on the inside edge of the wing as my guide. After repositioning the plans the notches matched up a lot better than before (And you only thought I was giving advice, but it never happens to me. Nope nope nope . That really happened, that's why I knew about repositioning the plans!!! ). Once I know where the trailing edge will sit I applied the glue to attach it to the sheeting in place, WS-B3. As with the main and rear spar this trailing edge will keep the wing straight, so it's important to secure the trailing edge accurately to the plans. It's also important to make sure that the trailing edge sits flat on the building board. To get an idea of how it should sit I dry fit a rib on the plans. The bottom of the rib should sit flat with the building board, the end of the rib should be firmly seated in the the notch of the trailing edge, and the top and bottom of the rib should be flush with the top and bottom of the trailing edge. Once the trailing edge is positioned on the plans where it should be, and the bottom of the trailing edge is flat on the building board I went ahead and secured the TE on the board. I made sure that it was straight all the way across the wing.

This looks like a good place to stop. I'm going to let all of this sit and make sure the glue is set, and then I'll start placing the ribs this evening.

Pictures
1. Securing sheeting WS-B3 in place.
2. Test fitting trailing edge.
3. More test fitting of trailing edge
4. Larger view of trailing edge test fit.
5. Dry fit a W5 rib to check alignment of the trailing edge
6. Securing outer edge of the trailing edge.
7. View from above of trailing edge to show alignment
8. Another view from above of the trailing edge.

Until next time

Ken
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Old 10-11-2005, 04:44 PM
  #34
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

A great thread you have here Ken. Very well done. Very informative. Those magnets look great as well!
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Old 10-12-2005, 06:18 PM
  #35
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

Ken,
Its looking great! keep up the great work!!!

Thanks Jim
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Old 10-12-2005, 09:08 PM
  #36
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

Holy forces of nature batman! I have to get a magnetic building system together!

Great thread Ken!
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Old 10-12-2005, 10:09 PM
  #37
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

figment,
I'll tell you this much, once you build with magnets you'll throw all of you pins away forever. It cost a little bit, and took a bit of work to get set up, but it was well worth it. I love it.

I do want to apologize to anybody following this thread. There are only 2 things that will take me away from building. The first, and most important, is my family. And the second is my St. Louis Cardinals!!!! Go Cards!!!!!!!!! I have a light day of work tomorrow, so I'm hoping to get some building done during the day.

Ken
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Old 10-12-2005, 10:46 PM
  #38
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

Baseball season is still going??? I thought it ended when my Braves got knocked out in that 18 inning marathon [:@] Yeah, yeah, I live in TX and the Astros moved on, but I am from pre-Marlins Florida. Love my Braves. Never fear though, NBA is weeks away! GO SPURS!!!!

Patrick
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Old 10-12-2005, 11:00 PM
  #39
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

Figment,
Well, I gave up on pro football a few years ago (I think free agency is killing the sport). And with the start that University of Oklahoma has this year, my Cardinals are the ONLY thing I have going right now!!!!!

Ken
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Old 10-13-2005, 06:59 AM
  #40
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

Looking good Ken,

HAW, I'd rather be making left turns at 200mph. I did the Richard Petty thing in Daytona a few years back and even at 150mph, WHAT A RIDE.

Now take the same track climb onto a superbike and do it again...talk about having white knuckles...but I loved every minute of it
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Old 10-13-2005, 09:41 AM
  #41
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

Re: Magnets,

A few years ago I worked in a Gov't Machine shop. I used to build on the Surface Grinder Table. This is an Electro-Magnetic Table that was flat to within .0001 (That's One Ten-thousanth of an inch) Needless to say, I built some pretty straight wings.

Ever since, I too no longer use pins either. Although I don't have a magnet setup, I find weights to be much better than pins.

Nice Job Ken, keep up the good work!
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Old 10-13-2005, 12:47 PM
  #42
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

Ken,

That magnet system looks great. Where did you get the parts and/or plans for this. I am thinking that I might switch to magnets versus pins.

Rob
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Old 10-13-2005, 01:22 PM
  #43
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

Rob,
The construction article is located here [link]http://www.airfieldmodels.com/information_source/how_to_articles_for_model_builders/tools/magnetic_building_board/index.htm[/link]

It's a very complete article and will give you the link to where to buy the magnets from. check it out and it should answer all your questions.

Ken
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Old 10-13-2005, 04:35 PM
  #44
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

Let's see more building. Lots more, and lots of pics.
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Old 10-13-2005, 05:32 PM
  #45
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

Very Nice Thread Ken. Your effort will be well rewarded with all the happy people out there building for the first time!! Bravo.
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Old 10-13-2005, 07:52 PM
  #46
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

Thanks Ken.

I am definitely going to start acquiring supplies to make a magnet building kit. I can see so many advantages to it even with the little building experience I have (the Slow Poke build).

Rob
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Old 10-14-2005, 10:00 AM
  #47
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

Ken, All I can say is WOW! I'm gonna save this thread. So I can use it if I try to build the 4*. But take it easy on my Sooners! They'll be back my brother! Mark T.
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Old 10-14-2005, 10:14 AM
  #48
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

Mark,

With all good intention and not to try to reall steer you away from Kens thread, but MountaineerFan36 did a wonderfull thread on doing a 4* 60 that Ken helped a ton in

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=3070885

But I'm sure Ken with have even more info in here as well
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Old 10-14-2005, 01:41 PM
  #49
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

Sorry if it seems like I took a break from building, but until I can figure out how to get paid for building airplanes I still have to work occasionally!! Plus as I said in a post 2 nights ago, I took a break to watch baseball. But because of the publicity this thread seems to be getting (and some good attention that it may get later. No details yet, but we'll tell you if we can get it worked out) I'm going to be squeezing in building here and there as I can do it. Even if I only get 10-15 minutes at a time I'll try to get something done on it.

Before I start posting today's info I just wanted to ask if anybody it working on a covering design. Seebee1, Bubbagates, and myself are all pretty excited about the thought of having the readers come up with his covering design!!!!

Part of the purpose for me doing this thread is to help new builders learn to build, or help those who aren't builders to become builders. So when I have tips or tricks that I use, I'll put them out here. The first 2 tips are 90° building brackets, and weight bags.

90° building brackets
These can be used for either the magnetic building system that I use or for a regular system that uses pins. One of the most important “tricks” for building a good plane is to build it straight. And one way to make sure it builds straight is to make sure that things that are supposed to be square really are 90°. When you build a wing the ribs are almost always placed at 90° to the building board. Usually when I build a wing I put in place all of the ribs before I start gluing them in place. This way I can make sure everything is where it's supposed to be before I start putting glue on it (this is just like reading the instruction manual that I mentioned earlier. Surprises aren't a good thing when you are building a plane). So in order to lay out the wing I needed a way of holding the ribs in place while I'm laying up the wing, and also something to hold the ribs in place while the glue dries. So I came up with these 90° brackets.

The brackets are made from extruded aluminum. You can pick it up at Lowe's/Home Depot/hardware store. The aluminum shapes that are available are great for a lot different things in this hobby. I've used them for things ranging from these brackets all the way to making sanding bars. Check them out and see if you can't come up with some ideas of your own. Anyway, back to the discussion at hand, the aluminum I used for these brackets is 1” angle aluminum. I then cut that into 1” lengths. I then drilled a small hole on one side of the bracket. This hole only needs to be big enough for the shaft of a thumbtack to go through it. After I was done cutting and drilling the brackets I went back with my dremel to remove any burrs that were on the edges, and I also had to remove burrs from around the hole I drilled. One final step is more for you piece of mind than anything else, use a square to check each bracket to make sure that it's actually 90°. If it's not it's better to throw it out than try to correct it.

Once you have all of your brackets done they're ready to use. I used thumbtacks with the bigger heads on them to hold them in place before I went magnetic (you can get the pins at Office Depot/Staple/Office Max/Wal-mart). Place a bracket on each side of a rib (you'll probably come up with a lot of other uses for these once you get going) and put a thumbtack (I use a latch magnet on top of each bracket to hold it in place) through each hole to secure it in place. Actually pinning a bracket in place and getting it in the CORRECT place takes a little bit of practice, so you may want to practice up with scrap wood before you start on an actual plane you are building. The best practice would be to draw a straight line and using a scrap piece of sheet balsa practice putting down the brackets (on each side of the balsa) so that the sheet is exactly on the line you drew and it stays there and at a 90° when you let go of it. Once you can do that you're ready to start building

Weight bags
I couldn't even start listing all of the uses for these. The list would just be too long. I've seen other people use a lot of different things for weight, all the way from rocks in an old sock all the way to sand in a ziplock bag. I started off using sand in an old sock, but that didn't last too long. The sand worked it's way out of the weave of the fabric and there was sand all over my building board. I then tried sand in ziplock bags. This was a bit better until the bags got small holes in them and once again there was sand all over my building board. So I had to come up with something better. I had a bunch of the camoflage material around (I cut up my old army uniforms), so I decided to make them out of that. I used BB's for the weight in them. I make 2 different sizes of bags, 3 lbs and 1 lbs. The 3 lbs bag is 5” square and 4” square. I'm no seamstress with a sewing machine, but with a little practice I was able to do the work that didn't look all too bad. For those that don't have access to a sewing machine there is an alternative that you can do, just don't laugh too hard when I tell you. Use an office stapler. Just a regular old stapler that you have on your desk right now. Cut your material and close it up by stapling the sides shut. It may not be pretty, but it will work and do the job!!. The only problem with using BB's is you have to be careful when using a magnetic building system like I do. I was using the bags and my magnets started disappearing. I couldn't figure out what was going on until I turned a bag over and found the magnets sticking to the underside of the bag!!!

Tools
A couple of quick notes on tools. I have 2 small X-acto rulers that I picked up at a LHS. There 2 tools are totally awesome. They get more use than just about anything else I have. While you don't have to have the rules from X-acto you will need at least a small square. You will need it so that you can check that parts are sitting square (yes, you are using the brackets we just built, but it never hurts to double check). The smaller the better so that you can get in between those ribs and other cramped spaces. A great source for small rulers would be [link=http://www.micromark.com]Micro Mark[/link] . They are also a great source for all sorts of tools for hobbyists. I have to warn you though. Be aware that repeated viewing of MicroMark's catalog or website can result in empty wallet syndrome!!!! They are a really great company. Check them out.

Well, that's enough for this post (like I said above, post sizes are dictated by how many pictures I can post). I'll post the next post this afternoon as soon as I can write it up.



Pictures
1. X-acto 90° square/ruler. See text.
2. Weight bags. 1 lb bag on left and 3 lb bag on right.
3.Weight bags in use. Holding down ribs until glue dries.
4. 90° bracket made from extruded aluminum shapes
5. 90° bracket.
6. 90° bracket showing drilled hole for pin.
7. Double checking 90° angle before putting second bracket in place.
8. 2 brackets used opposite of each other in order to keep rib at 90° angle.
9. Another view of brackets in use.
10.Closer view of brackets
11. Yet another view.



Until next time

Ken
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Old 10-14-2005, 08:36 PM
  #50
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Default RE: Pay It Forward Build Thread!! Sig LT-40 build

I realize that this is a build thread, so I promise that there is actually some building being done!!

Right now I have most of the ribs set in place. So while I wait for the glue to set and dry, I'll be writing up the build steps and have them posted here. I should have them up here before too long. [8D]

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