elenasgrumpy

My Feedback: (4)

Bill, That too sounds like an inexpensive yet workable way to do it. I see where that would give you room to lay-out wing halves for up to a 72" wingspan, What do you do when laying out the fuse? Build in sections and slide one end off of the board as you go? Just curious as to how you build a 48" to 57" fuse on a 36" board. Thanks,

Mark

bruce88123

Just fold it.




J/K It would really be better to buy a 48 in ceiling tile IMO. A tile is approx 48 x 24 and you could build diagonally for @ 53.5 inches

MountaineerFan36

elenasgrumpy:

I was in the same spot that you are. I thought there was no stinkin way I could build a plane of my own. I always considered myself the anti Bob Villa, cause I've have no building/mechanical skills at all. But, I received a lot of encouragement from the folks here on RCU and I was able to pull through and build my first plane. I can't describe to you the sense of satisfaction I got from building and flying my own plane. You can to. You just have to make the comittment to challenge yourself....and do it!

elenasgrumpy

My Feedback: (4)

Bill, Ken, Bruce, Patrick, & MountaineerFan, Thanks again for all the encouragement and good advice for a building board. I can manage that easily enough, and with the current delays in my flight training it will be some time before I'm ready for that #2 type plane anyway. I'm not throwing in the towel just yet. I WILL learn to fly, and when the time comes, I'll try to build my own plane. In the meantime I'll be right here watching & learning for a step up when the time comes. Thanks guys.[sm=sunsmiley.gif]

Mark

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

elenasgrumpy,
Another thing you can do for a building board is get a hollow core door. You can get a 2'x6' door for about $15-$20 normal price, but if you ask them for a damaged door you can get it for less than that. Then use 3M 77 adhesive spray to attach a ceiling tile to that, or you can use sheetrock screws if you want to be able to change the tile down the road. This will make a great building surface that will be very level. You can bring it out and lay it on your kitchen table, but when you need the table you can pick it up and move it out. If you're doing a good job with your build you won't have to worry about your work falling off because it's securely pinned to the work surface. Doing it this way you have room for the bigger wings or fuselages. Or like I used to do, build several assemblies at a time.

Just something else to think about.

Ken

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

Acutally I only used it to build the SIG something extra so it was big enough. Just get a bigger board or as was already suggested a hollow core door that has some damage to one side, then glue the foam to it.

elenasgrumpy

My Feedback: (4)

Yup, that sounds like a great idea, and you're right they are only like 19.99 or so for a good one @ Home Depot, and if they have one with a hole in it somewhere, they'll darn near give it away. My wife's gonna love you guys if she actually gets her kitchen table back![sm=lol.gif]
I thought alot about what all of you have said today & I'm gonna do it. Not right away, but I'm gonna do it, and for practice as soon as my hands get a little better I'm gonna start with that Guillow's Free Flight kit of the F6F Hellcat. I picked it up a week or two ago for my little nephew to hang in his room. Granted it's a much smaller build and doesn't have to be perfect as it will be hanging not flying. I think it will be good place for me to start. If I can build it fairly nice with those tiny little fragile pieces of balsa, then I should be able to build the 4* or the Something Extra. Thanks Guys.


Mark

elenasgrumpy

My Feedback: (4)

Just remembered I have a bedroom door (hollow core) that I have been procrastinating about replacing for a couple years now due to a hole that got put in to one side when my daughter slipped and put her elbow thru it. Sounds like a good time to get that long over due " Honey-Do" done! I'll get my buiding board & an attaboy from the Wife all at the same time!

Mark

krossk

My Feedback: (27)

Now you're thinkin' like a builder!
Shoot, knowing how to fly is by no means a requirement for building. I had my Tiger2 finished and flight-worthy 6 months before I solo'd. (Of course there was a non-flying winter in there...) I think anybody who enjoys flying but has never built a kit or from plans is missing out on half (or more...) of the fun of this hobby. Besides, when that nephew of yours catches on to where that plane hanging in his room came from, you're gonna have yourself a building buddy!

bubbagates

My Feedback: (32)

I could not agree more with this statement. We have a long term club member who has never flown but builds some of the best kits and arf's you have ever seen.

I have test flown a couple of his planes now and based on other people that have flown his planes over the years, having to add no trim is not unusual for this guy.

He'll assemble/build whatever you want but expect it to take a while and you will pay, but the fit and finish is top notch. The last thing I saw he had just finished for someone was a very large scratch built Stinson using a Zenoah G-62. He had it at a full scale flyin at a local airport and no one could find a single flaw in the thing. He said it took him 3 years to complete it and I beleive it. All wires were tied down using wire holddowns and all the holddowns were facing the same way, even the black ground wires on the Hitech servos and extensions were facing the same way, all screws were button head and all facing the same way, I could go on and on, talk about attention to detail. [X(]

I'll never get to that level.

kerrydel

My Feedback: (2)

I went with the K.I.S.S. principle. This is a trainer and it will get dinged up. I envisioned somebody having to fix the plane. With simple shapes and all straight lines, the little girls could help with this (at least the 7 year old).

Decals could be made and applied as seen fit. I'm not that handy with Paintshop, so I'll leave that up to the experts.

Kerry

EDIT: A pattern could be made for the 'diamonds' to make sure they're all the same size. This 'tool' could be given with the plane.

elenasgrumpy

My Feedback: (4)

Kerry, Your thinking ahead approach is pretty wise. While being a " simple design" as you put it, it is still is an attractive one too. I gotta learn how to play with photoshop, it looks like fun. Maybe Minn gives lessons, lol. Well done![sm=thumbup.gif]


Mark

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

I just want to take a quick second to apologize to all those following this thread. The real world has reared it's ugly head the last two days and I have been just totally worn out in the evenings, to tired to even think about doing much building. On top of that, I tried to get some building done this morning before I headed out for work, and I was stopped in my tracks by a building screw up. Yep, you heard it right. The great Ken (cough cough, chuckle chuckle) screwed up. I tried to do some building last night when I knew I was really too tired to mess with it, and should have followed my instincts and not touched the build table, and when I was tired I built something incorrectly. Yes, I will document my screw up. I'm not too proud to have to hide my mistakes. All I will say is use this as an example, don't work unless you are 100% fully into building it. Because if you force yourself, or you work when you're not up to it, you will make screwups!!!!

More on the screw up in my next post.

Ken

figment

Another thing to consider when pushing yourself to build when you are tired is injury . I stayed up tonight to get some more covering done. I got a little groggy and consequently careless. I keep my trim iron very hot, about 275-300 degrees as I find that when I need it I am stretching or shrinking. Anyhow, I now have a nice 1" long blister where I layed my thumb on it while trying to get at a hard to reach spot []. We often see the posts about not flying alone for safety reasons, as well as other flying related saftey posts. I am here to tell ya to be careful during your building to. My last build I slipped with that dang ol' slot cutter and put a nice gash in my finger in a split second. This time I am cutting slots before covering to reduce the danger of slipping on the smooth covering.

Nite all,
Patrick

elenasgrumpy

My Feedback: (4)

Ken, That is one of the first things Dad told me as far as advice, don't try to build when your tired. I guess now I know why he was so adament about it. Sorry to hear of your little snafu, but I know you can fis it!

Mark

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

I guess that I owe some people an apology, it's been a few days since I posted here. I do apologize to those following this thread. This past week was pretty hectic for me at work, and until I can figure out how to put my son through Veterinary School by building RC airplanes I got to take care of work first . Although I was busy at work, I did have a little time to work on the plane here an there. The biggest thing that I didn't have time for was to keep up the posts here. So let's fix that now. As it stands right now, I've completed the wing. Well, at least to the point where it needs to be sanded but I won't do that tell later on in the build. I usually try to do all the sanding at one time, unless I need to sand something off while building to get ready for something else.

Alright, back to the build. With the 2 wing halves joined the next step in the instructions is finish out the sheeting by applying the sheeting to the top part of the wing. Before you do that, this is your last chance to double check all the joints in the wing. Take a little bit of time to inspect everything to make sure you have a good joint. If you see any joints that a bit iffy or don't look quite right to you, use your glue to run a small fillet of glue along that joint. This will ensure that the joint is nice and strong. Better safe than sorry if you ask me.

Once I'm satisfied with all the joints I glued into place the WS-T2 pieces. I know that I'm starting to sound like a broken record here, but it's worth saying again-- “Measure twice, cut once.” This advice never gets old. Double check that the sheeting fits BEFORE you put the glue on. If the fit is a little bit off, use a sanding block to trim it to size. Once your happy with the fit go ahead and glue it into place (Pictures #1, #2, and #3). Just like the bottom sheeting I wasn't at all happy with the way that WS-T1 fit (picture #4), I just can't bring myself to lay huge bead of glue in there to fill a gap. Nope, nope, nope. I'm not going to do it. So, like the bottom sheeting I beveled the edge of the sheeting so that it fit properly against the leading edge. And also like the bottom sheeting, there is now a gap at the back of the sheet. This is easily taken care of by cutting a strip of balsa from the scrap wood and gluing it to our sheeting. (pictures #5 - #9). Once the sheeting is in place I used pins and weight bags to keep it all secure while the glue dried. Picture #11 shows the sheeting all in place and ready to move on.

Pictures
1. The first WS-T2 sheet in place.
2. Test fitting the WS-T2.
3. Gluing the WS-T2 in place.
4. Test fit of the WS-T1 against the leading edge.
5. Beveling the edge of the sheeting in order to get a better fit with the leading edge
6. Finished sanding the bevel.
7. Test fitting the sheeting in place, measure the gap in order to cut scrap wood to fit.
8. Cutting a piece of scrap wood to add to our sheeting.
9.Gluing an addition strip of wood to our sheeting.
10. Glue set to dry
11. Sheeting finished

Until next time

Ken

elenasgrumpy

My Feedback: (4)

I better go to bed , I'm starting to see things. I thought I saw a T-pin on Ken's building table.


Mark

shd3920

I know you prob aren't anywhere near this point yet Ken, but do you glue your dowels in before or after covering? I am thinking it would be easier to glue them in before covering because after the covering it will be very hard to get in there and glue them. Also with them just sliding in and not having any contact with any wood except the fuselage around the dowel holes, I would like to add scrap balsa between the dowel and the formers so I can have more wood to glue them to. And that certainly can not be done after covering. So I have the dowels in now with the scrap balsa shoved in BUT I AM NOT GONNA GLUE THEM YET until I hear from you and maybe some other members about the advantages and disadvantages of gluing the dowels in first. It shouldn't be too hard to cover the plane with the dowels in and the dowels would have more support. What do you guys think?

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Mark,
Good eye!! Yes, you did see a T-pin there. I just said that I don't build with pins anymore, that doesn't mean there still aren't uses for them. The one you see in picture is used to poke the dried glue out of the end of the glue bottle!!!!!

Ken

PipeMajor

My Feedback: (1)

I recommend following the instruction booklet and glue them in AFTER covering. The dowels have very little force trying to push them in/out of their holes. All of the force comes from the rubber bands trying to rip them through 1/4" of lite ply on each side. Ain't gonna happen.

Sig did a good job engineering this kit. No need to 2nd guess them.

Besides, glueing them in afterwards makes it MUCH easier to cover the fuselage without having to work around the dowels. Just flow in some thin CA and, if you like, a tad of med CA on the outside. Don't make the same mistake I did and pour in an excess amount. When I turned the fuselage over the CA ran out and spoiled the spoiled the gloss on the MonoKote.

I WOULD put a coat of some type of fuel proofer on the dowels. I used a clear polyurethane. You could also use colored (or clear) dope.

PipeMajor

My Feedback: (1)

That's the way I did mine and I highly recommend it. Start with the root rib, attach it to the bottom spars & sheeting, add in the shear web, next rib, next shear web... keep on working your way out to the tip rib.

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

I know what you all are thinking. I promised you a screw up, and I haven't delivered it yet. Don't worry, I always live up to my word. If I promised you a screw up I'll definitely deliver a screw up. In fact, it was in this next step where I screwed up. Before we get into the step (and the screw up) I'll let you know what caused the screw up. That's easy, trying to hurry a step while I was tired. This is one of my cardinal rules, don't build when I'm tired. I know better but I let myself get into a bit of a panic because I wasn't getting anything done on this build, so I sat down to work when I was tired. And I was quickly rewarded with a mistake. Luckily it was an easy mistake to recover from, but not all of them are. I've had mistakes that the only way to fix them was to buy new wood and cut out new parts. So here is my advice, don't force yourself at the building table. If you're tired, or you just don't feel like sitting there to build, trust your instincts and get away from the building table. Go spend time with your family, read a book, watch tv, surf RCU (my personal favorite), just do anything but build. Trust me on this one, personal experience speaking here.

The next step is preparing and installing the Center Section Trailing Edge Pieces. These extend back from the trailing edge and contain the torque rods that move the ailerons. The pieces themselves come with the groove for the torque rods already cut into the pieces, but you will need to cut a notch into each one for the torque rod to exit and also give it room to move back and forth. First take the 2 pieces and label “left bottom” and “right bottom” (picture #1). A lot of you might think that you don't need to mark the pieces Left and Right because you can keep them straight, and it seems a bit silly for someone as smart as you to label the parts. Trust me, mistakes happen. It's easier in the long run to just mark them now. If you look at picture #6 you will see that I also lightly marked the trailing edge with left and right. Why did I do that? Because when you are working on the wing in this step you will be working with the wing upside down and it's very easy to get mixed up and get your left and right backwards. Hopefully a few of the other experienced builders watching this thread will speak up and point out that they too mark thinks like this as they build (Bruce? Paul? You guys watching?). Use the dimensions that are provided in the instructions to mark the notches for the torque rods (pictures #2 & #3). The instructions call for using a razor knife to carve out the notch. Although it's possible to it that way, I much prefer to use a dremel (trust me, this is a must have tool for any builder) and a routing bit to carve out the notch (picture #4). If you don't have a Dremel you can still use the razor saw, hobby knife, or razor blade to cut the notches. Whatever you use to cut the notches just take your time and do a little bit at a time. Getting into a hurry is probably the biggest cause of mistakes when building a plane. Picture #5 shows the finished notch. Picture #6 shows test fitting the parts to the wing, I'm not gluing anything in place at this time but just testing.

The next step is to prepare the torque rods for installation. Identify the correct sides to install these on. Picture #9 shows a test fit of the torque rod. Notice the brass rod on the outside of the torque rod, this is used so you can secure the torque in place and it can still rotate inside the brass rod. To prep the torque rod for installation use a piece of sand paper to “rough up” the outside of the brass rod. This give the glue something to “grab” to when you glue it in place. Picture #10 shows using Elmer's glue to glue these in place. What?? You can use Elmer's to glue to metal? Actually, no you really can't glue metal with Elmer's. That's they lucky part because I used the wrong glue. You guessed it, we're to my screw up. Although you can't see it in picture #10, I installed the torque rods in the wrong sides. I didn't realize that I had done this until I was at the next step, which was gluing the Center Sections to the wing. When I was gluing them in place I checked to make sure the torque rods didn't have any glue on them and that's when I discovered that I put them on the wrong side. So I quickly removed them and wiped all the glue off before it set. So I lucked out. I was also lucky that I had used the wrong glue, because it was pretty easy to get the torque rods out of the parts (picture #11). Picture #12 shows the remains of the Elmer's after I removed the torque rods, this needs to be cleaned up and removed before re-attaching the torque rods.

Ok, that's all the pictures I can post at a time, so I'll take a break here and continue the posts this afternoon.

Pictures
1. Marking the parts “left” and “right” as per the instructions.
2. Marking the notch for cutting.
3. Marking the notch for cutting.
4. Using a Dremel tool and a routing bit to cut the notch.
5. The finished notch.
6. Test fitting the parts in place.
7. Preparing to install the torque rods
8. Rough up the brass rods with some sand paper so the glue has something to “grab”.
9. Test fit the torque rod.
10. Opps, using the wrong glue for the torque rods
11. Cleaning up after a mistake. Digging out the torque rods after putting them in the wrong side.
12. Need to clean up the glue after the mistake.

Until next time

Ken

carrellh

When I built my PT-60 I did something similar; but didn't notice it until after the epoxy was fully cured. On one side only, I ended up with the part of the rod that should point back to the aileron pointed toward the wing. I said several bad words and thought I had made a horrible error. Luckily I was wrong and the fix was really simple.

I was able to recover by cutting a groove in the other side of the TE stock and rotating the rod around. The plywood plate that glues on the top of the wing center covered up the slot on the wrong side of the TE.

R T W

Ken
It's nicce to see you are human and do make mistakes

Ron

elenasgrumpy

My Feedback: (4)

Ken, I knew there had to be a logical explanation for the T-pin!. I'm glad your little mistake was minor, & didn't set ya back too far. The wing is looking good. Don't push yourself to far, if skis are more appropiate than landing gear by the time the plane is ready to ship to Seebee, & his girls, we'll all just chip in and get ya some.


Mark