TomCrump

I really like the Sig Kadet Sport, but check with your instructor before making the purchase. Some instructors may not be comfortable teaching a student of a taildragger. I have no issues with doing it, myself. I have a student that plans to learn on one this Summer.

I have two taildragger Kadet Seniors at the moment. One is an ARF. The other is a kit built Kadet Senior that I modified.

johnstoninia

That is a good point. I would not want to spend that kind of money to find out I can't learn on it.

52larry52

My Feedback: (1)

johnstoninia, The two ARF's that Tom Crump suggested (Sig LT-40 & Kadet Senior) are both excellent picks if you are up to assembling and outfitting your own first plane. Unless you have 10 thumbs and they are all left hand thumbs, a Sig ARF as a first plane to put together is quite doable for a rookie as the instructions are excellent (so are the planes) and easy to follow. It's a good way to know a little more about how the plane your going to fly and have to maintain works. With only a small amount of guidance from either a local club guy or the guys and gals here on RCU success is awaiting. Ask questions and research information before you purchase equipment or glue in that part your not sure of how it goes. If on the other hand you're put off by either the challenge or cost of putting a package together, consider finding and buying a "lightly used" ready to fly trainer from someone in your local club. However, shop very,very wisely if you decide to buy a used model plane. There is lots of worn out, been crashed, JUNK out there, and some less than honest owners all to eager to sell them to you. It's like buying a used car, gotta be a smart buyer. If you go the new ARF route get input from again either your local club instructor or the guys and gals here on RCU. You will get a variety of answers to most questions as there is usually more than one right answer but if you sort through the answers you will find a good solution. I.E.; I love "yellow" planes so I will tell you to buy a "yellow" plane, and maybe Tom loves "blue" planes so he will tell you to buy a "blue" plane but both answers are right so you buy what you think is best for you after hearing us both exult the virtues of "yellow" verses. "blue" planes. Should I buy a 2 stroke or 4 stroke engines will be like that. So will the glo, gas or electric power question. Welcome aboard and happy hunting to you. Enjoy the experience.

52larry52

My Feedback: (1)

johnstoninia, We haven't really answered your question of why you can't seem to find a new ready to fly .40/.60 trainer for purchase. Simple answer is "market trends". Ten years ago there were multiple good RTF 40/60 trainers available from both Tower Hobbies and Horizon Hobby (the two big mass marketers in this hobby) but with the surge toward electric power, sales of the RTF glo dropped off enough that I don't think either currently has any available. This is a very "trendy" hobby and stuff comes and goes sometimes quite quickly. I have seen many planes that I wanted to have but waited too long to get my dollars together and then they were discontinued and I missed the boat. Sometimes planes come back and trends reverse but right now I don't know of a quality, or even crappy plane for that matter, that is a RTF 40/60 glo trainer. You gotta piece together the package yourself. That's just the way it is right now.

AA5BY

Did you check with that local club. They may have club trainers. Our club has three of them donated over the years and we are giving lessons with them. Doing so gives a student time to build one for when they are on their own.

johnstoninia

Well, I am either in this hobby now officially, or, I just threw a load of money out lol. I appreciate all the advice you guys have given. I also have read tons of stuff on this forum, and out on the web. Here is what I ended up doing. First, I joined the AMA. Just waiting on my card. Second, I attended my local clubs meeting and subsequently joined. After speaking with some of those members, I ended up purchasing an Apprentice S 15E with S.A.F.E. I really wanted the Sensei, but most everybody in this club runs Spektrum radio equipment. I thought I should stick with what everyone had for buddy boxing and stuff.
I also am ordering the Sig LT-40 next week. I really do want to build my own. This way I can be flying the Apprentice while building the Sig kit. Also, the Apprentice will be much less expensive to fix during my learning curve (crashing curve). I also will be purchasing a Spektrum GX6 transmitter. That way I can fly both with one radio system.
The guys I've met so far in the club are awesome, and really helpful. I took my Apprentice up there Wednesday after getting it built. My instructor went over the plane checking everything I had done, and approved of my first "build". He proceeded to take it up for it's maiden flight. It went great, and after a few minutes, he landed it and gave me the controls. I was pretty nervous but here we go! I took off from the runway and it was beautiful. She was up about thirty feet, banked hard left, and slammed STRAIGHT INTO THE GROUND!!!
Talk about emotional roller coasters. Apparently something messed up in the RX or TX. We are not sure. My instructor and two other people saw my hands working properly, but the plane would not respond. What a bummer. There are no "club trainers" here as AA5BY mentioned, but there are really nice guys. Another pilot had his own Apprentice there and let me fly it. I had a few take offs and landings all without incident on my own.
I called Horizon on advice of my instructor. He felt there was something wrong in the plane. They had me mail them the plane yesterday. They are going to look it over and see if they can replace it under warranty. So, I guess for the next month or so I will be working on the Sig lol. I wanted to just go buy another plane right now, but my sensible side (my wife), said "heck no."
So hopefully Horizon does find the issue and takes care of this. In the meantime, I will work on the Sig when it gets here, and go watch everyone fly their stuff when they go. If the wind stays down we are going tonight. I know this was windy. I figure if there is another new guy looking on here I would tell my story so they can giggle at me. Kind of pricey to start this hobby, but what a rush it is flying your own machine. Even if it was only about twenty seconds the first time.

52larry52

My Feedback: (1)

Really? You did the takeoff on your first flight? This was OK with your instructor? REALLY? I said there would be some difference of opinion between us on some stuff but "the student does the takeoff on his very first flight" ! WOW. I can't believe it, I do, but that's crazy IMHO. I'm reading your post and going "yeah this is good", "that's good", "that's good", and then I get to the part where you takeoff and I go "WHAT?" I have never heard of that instruction technique, never! Normally, the instructor will do the takeoff, bring the plane to a safe altitude (what we call three mistakes high), then turns the control of the plane over to the student through the buddy box and if the student looses control then the instructor releases the trainer button and takes back over, recovers the plane and brings it back to stable flight again at a three mistakes high altitude then gives the control back to the student when he is ready. I am not my clubs official "instructor" (though I have been asked, I turned it down) however I have taught several students to fly including a "problem child" that was deemed as not "capable of learning to fly" by our official instructor. I have been successful with several other students that had problems catching on so I am not without instructing experience. When I do instruct I don't use self recovery systems just the buddy box on both glo and electric trainers. Other instructors, please chime in here, is this a new normal way to teach?? johnstoninia, I sorry you lost your plane. It sounds like you were getting good help right up until they had you take off without having had some stick time up in the air at a safe altitude. I have no explanation for this approach to teaching. Let's hear what others say about it.

TomCrump

When I was an instructor, landings were the LAST thing taught. I didn't want the student to know how, and then try flying without supervision.

Edit:

I meant to say that take offs were the last thing, taught.

52larry52

My Feedback: (1)

Tom, don't you mean takeoffs were the last thing, that was always my rule. I didn't want the student to sneak out by himself and take off (the easy part) by himself and not be able to land with out damaging the plane. So I wouldn't allow a student to do any takeoffs until he did his first landing. By then he had enough control of the plane that I could usually turn that session into a first solo, once he did a landing I would have him turn the plane right around (he could at that point fly it in the air and he just landed it) do a take off with coaching, fly the pattern and do another landing and bingo, he just soloed! The old "takeoffs are optional but landings are mandatory" thing.

johnstoninia

Yeah, I will be honest, it wasn't "instruction" like I thought. I will say I have been on the simulator a lot! I can fly the heck out of my computer lol. If I had realized how it was going, I would have bought the Sensei because I liked that plane more. I bought the Apprentice so we all had the same radio gear, but ended up not really mattering because we did not buddy box. Anyway, the general conclusion everyone came to was the plane had a problem. As I mentioned, I flew another member's Apprentice that same night and did take offs and landings on my own without any incident. I was told that he has seen issues with other planes that had the safe mode thing and he did not like them. Another member there said his first plane had it and he hated it. I think he said it was a Seqoia (spelling?). He kept it for a week then bought his current Carbon Z Cub. I told him that seemed like a big 'ol plane to learn on. He said he loved it as his trainer. I almost bought that plane as my first on his recommendation, but the cost was too prohibitive right now. They also questioned if the TX could be part of the culprit. It came with the GX5 I believe. I was told they have seen problems with that too. That is a reason I am going to get the GX6 as my TX now. Plus it has more functions that I like such as the timer, and mixing etc.

TomCrump

Ya. I have a common old age malady. Brain farts. LOL

Takeoffs were the last thing that I instructed the students to do.

52larry52

My Feedback: (1)

Tom, Oh thank goodness, I was starting to think I was loosing it! I also have those brain fart moments and thought this was another. What is your take on how they let johnstoninia take off on his first flight, even with a stabilization system and forgetting that a glitch/brown out may have taken his plane down? No buddy box either!!! Sounds crazy to me and the results weren't good.

TomCrump

I would never let a student take off on the first day. The student would need to demonstrate full control over the model, first. This takes several sessions, before I have the confidence in the student's abilities.

52larry52

My Feedback: (1)

Amen!

F4 Phantom blue angles

I learned on a Senior Telamaster. Very good Trainer! But it is discontinued now. However,the Sig Kadet Senior is a good choice. The Sig Kadet mk.2 is good,but it is alittle more unstable than the Senior. You want a plane with a big flat bottom wing,and not over power it.

Redpilot

What a great resource!

jucava

I agree with you guys, and we were discussing this matter at the club, the industry is missguiding the new comers. Trying to undermine the need for an instructor with the self righthening systems.

They are very good but not as good as an experience instructor or flying mate/buddy.

That is the difference between a model that will last 10 seconds or 10 years.

fliers1

The industry has to stay in business which is why they are selling self-righting trainers. It has been proven that the for profit industry financially cannot depend on the non profit club system for customer service.
Some clubs only have training on one day a week, in some areas where training weather is few and far between. Wonder why so few businesses carry kits and all products needed for building them?

jucava

But you are getting an individual that buy an airplane, set it up, fly 5 maybe 10 seconds, crash and get disappointed. He or she will never buy another rc plane ever.

As a business owner my self, that is not an ideal plan, you want a returning customer.

jucava

Regarding why so few places carry kits the answer is easy:

People is lazy and is getting use to instant gratification, press a button and things get done for them, they lost the joy of creating something useful from a few materials.

Have you notice how few skill craftmans exist near you?, on any trade.

fliers1

The point is, the industry member is still selling planes and it's up to the customer to find someone to help him. If he doesn't find anyone to help, there is still a chance he could get his self righting plane up and down without breaking too much. As far as kits go, why would anyone spend months building a plane from a kit and then not find anyone to help him learn how to fly it? Laziness has nothing to do with it. I ran a hobby shop a few years ago and I offered to teach all of my customers to fly whether they bought a plane from me or not. Once they realized they could learn to fly without crashing, they bought kits, spent the time building them, usually through the winter. I helped set their new built kits to fly and spent an hour or so to further train them,. Turns out the majority of my customers loved building and bought many more kits and all the material required to build them. BTW, most of my customers weren't even previously in the hobby.

fliers1

When I had my hobby shop, I suggested to all of my distributors including Hobbico, to send a employee to me so I could train them how to fly and then train their customers, or other employess.
After all, how many businesses have employees who are accomplished in whatever their business is all about? So, those at Hobbico didn't bother to take my idea seriously and filed for bankruptcy. Not saying that if they did give my plan a try it would have kept them in business. But other distributors have at least gotten back to me and showed a little curiosity. Who knows?

jucava

We live in a society where the instant gratification is the norm, the value of getting satisfaction by doing something is getting scare by the minute.

Why built when you can buy, if buying is cheaper, again instant gratification.

The distributors only care about what can they sale today, I'm guessing you have a lots of kids in your club, in mine we have 2 out of 200 members, when those 198 get tired or too old to fly there goes the hobby.

Kids and adults alike are getting disappointed with models crashing after a few seconds, that is what I see in my area.

fliers1

Come to think of it, I've been satisfying that instant gratification situation for decades now. What I mean is anyone who I met in and out of my shop had a desire to learn to fly ASAP, human nature I imagine.
They didn't have to join a club or AMA, nor buy any equipment, just take my tx and have fun learning to fly my trainer.
I always had trainers ready to fly and on their first lesson, I got people flying, taking off and landing..with minimal assistance from me. That is how I kept my shop open for several years. I didn't get much help from the local clubs as they choose to buy mail order even though I matched mail order pricing.
I still have trainers ready to fly and when I get a call I meet them at the flying field, which is only 4 miles from my home. I offer them a free hour of instruction and if they want more, I suggest that they join one of the local clubs, if they live in the area.
Other than what I did, I guess there is nothing anyone can do to change the mindset of the instant gratification crowd.

easystar123

My Super Frontier Senior makes a great trainer for any newbie pilots. I have this plane over ten years now and it's ultra reliable. I have it fitted with a fourstroke engine and it's very graceful to fly.