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  1. #26

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    Re: huh?

    Originally posted by khlash99
    I have been reading these post trying to figure out what I missed???? I am currently finishing an Avistar and there sure werent any steel rods and you definitely have to glue the wings together. I finally realized you guys must be talking about the foam wing one. I purchased the awarf. If not im in big trouble.
    .I don't think yopu missed anything.
    Some say they have no steel rod.
    Others say they bent theirs in a crash and it saved the wing but the rod in all my TH planes have the same steel rod so i'm not sure.
    Would be nice if the factory would tell us why some are wood and others are steel
    Vegas/
    The only Easy Day Was Yesterday.

  2. #27
    WORNBOOTS's Avatar
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    Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

    OK I should know better by now, but here it goes anyway"

    Some hobbico kits, same plane, different set up. The ARF the Select and some kits have changed the wing joiners from wood to steel and may in the future use C/F tubes.

    A wing endures stress, and has to have some give in its construction. Beyond design limits are sometimes over looked by US pilots (not pointing fingers)

    Take the 1/4" rod but the *same length* as the wing and it will bend in a very easy attempt. The wing absorbs and distributes the load over the entire area. the rod When installed becomes one with the wing as a end to end (wing tip to wing tip) structure.

    The wood dowel suffers from grain failure after it is flexed so far it will snap, and that is an example of beyond design limits.

    The wing on a trainer has lots of surface, and grabs lots of air in a Hi G maneuver. so it is more likely to pull more stress than a tapered or double tapered wing on a sport plane of same size and weight.

    Many planes have wing tubes, and can be detached for transporting. And they use different methods to keep the wings in place. So the wing does not always have to be glued at the root,

    This is just My 2" (but I have a new extinguisher)
    Dan Z
    **Enjoy the Thrill of Flight\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\' Become an R C Pilot**
    *I enjoy building 70\'\'\'\'s Kits as originally Mfg.*

  3. #28

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    Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

    Originally posted by wornboots
    OK I should know better by now, but here it goes anyway"

    Some hobbico kits, same plane, different set up. The ARF the Select and some kits have changed the wing joiners from wood to steel and may in the future use C/F tubes.

    A wing endures stress, and has to have some give in its construction. Beyond design limits are sometimes over looked by US pilots (not pointing fingers)

    Take the 1/4" rod but the *same length* as the wing and it will bend in a very easy attempt. The wing absorbs and distributes the load over the entire area. the rod When installed becomes one with the wing as a end to end (wing tip to wing tip) structure.

    The wood dowel suffers from grain failure after it is flexed so far it will snap, and that is an example of beyond design limits.

    The wing on a trainer has lots of surface, and grabs lots of air in a Hi G maneuver. so it is more likely to pull more stress than a tapered or double tapered wing on a sport plane of same size and weight.

    Many planes have wing tubes, and can be detached for transporting. And they use different methods to keep the wings in place. So the wing does not always have to be glued at the root,

    This is just My 2" (but I have a new extinguisher)
    Dan Z
    .Hi Dan,
    Working from the bottom up,
    you don't need an extinguisher.
    But there are some who have a covert way of telling you how wrong you are just because they have that insecure feeling and the need to be noticed.
    With that out of the way,
    The ROD in question in all the TH trainers and the Avistar have a solid steel rod that is only 13 & a 1/4 inch long.I also am against gluing the 2 halves together because it will prevent you from separating the wings and make a good structure inspection.
    Also if you need to recover it,
    doing one wing half at a time is a lot easier.
    The Avistar in it's factory configuration is a nice aerobatic starter plane.
    But when a bigger engine is installed many push it far beyond it's design limitations.
    BTW,
    The Airstrike with the 46 LX engine on it also has the same 13/1/4 inch steel rod like the TH trainers.
    Right now i'm trying to figure out why some kits have wood and the RTF have steel.
    I did E mail TH product support specialist some time ago but by the time they responded I forgot what I wanted to ask them.
    Anyway you made an excellent post and maybe some others will do a preflight before and after just to make sure everything is holding together.
    So far no problems on my planes and I have to admit that I do push the Hobbico trainer and make what I call bounce and go landings.
    The landing gear gives in a lot but I hear so many saying to beef it up.
    If the landing gear doesn't have any spring to it then the jolt and stress is applied to the plane.
    My landing gear is doing good so far.
    Thanks for the excellent post.
    Have a great weekend
    Vegas/
    The only Easy Day Was Yesterday.

  4. #29
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    Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

    Yes, the rod was bent and poked through the sheeting after cracking some ribs. But I cut power immediately and was able to land. The old rod I still have if you want a picture of it.

    One thing I forgot to mention was that the wing lifted off the fuse, and that caused it to bend. The rubber bands were not strong enough to hold it on to the fuse with so much load. I was also using a .46 engine which the Select is not really designed for.
    FARM Club

  5. #30

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    Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

    Originally posted by klone
    Yes, the rod was bent and poked through the sheeting after cracking some ribs. But I cut power immediately and was able to land. The old rod I still have if you want a picture of it.

    One thing I forgot to mention was that the wing lifted off the fuse, and that caused it to bend. The rubber bands were not strong enough to hold it on to the fuse with so much load. I was also using a .46 engine which the Select is not really designed for.
    .klone,
    I don't need a picture but let me know if the rod is steel like mine and 13 and 3/4 inches long.
    Also all the rods in my planes are shiny and all have one hole in one end.
    Yeah,
    You did push it but it's hard to believe the rod made of steel and that short would even think of bending.
    I think we can sure use a model aircraft structure engineer.
    Someone must know why the kits have wood dowels and the RTF have steel rods
    Thanks for writing and let me know about the rod.
    If you want you can send me a PIC at IamSF5@aol.com
    Vegas/
    The only Easy Day Was Yesterday.

  6. #31

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    Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

    As one can see from all the posts, everyone has their own opinions on these, and in the long run there is no right or wrong with any of these posts. I have built & flown dozens of these planes, and assisted in crashing a few of them. The newer versions of the ARTF do only come with a 5 inch wooden ply joiner. To be honest, I didn't even read the directions for that last one, but when I see a wooden joiner, it's epoxy those wing halves together all the way. There really wasn't anything wrong with the original design, with the steel rod, as long as you constantly checked those wing clamp screws. I have found in every Avistar I've seen, those screws eventually wallow out and come loose. If they do pop out in flight, that rod is only going to hold the wing together for so long before it does a beautiful spiral. Same goes for vert & horizon Stab. For anyone wanting the original question answered, you read all the responses, formulate your own opinion, then do what you feel comfortable with. As for me, it's glue, glue, glue.

  7. #32

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    Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

    Originally posted by grippm
    As , formulate your own opinion, then do what you feel comfortable with. As for me, it's glue, glue, glue.
    .Well,
    Whatever but it sure would be nice to know why/how/who went from the wood dowel to steel or vice versa and why.
    But as Dan pointed out the wooden dowel can crack under stress and you can't see it because it's glued in place.
    So if you epoxy the 2 halves you can still tear off a wing.
    The epoxy will just tear off from the balsa it's glued on to.
    I'm just guessing all this from other post I read
    Vegas/
    The only Easy Day Was Yesterday.

  8. #33
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    Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

    Actually The Point I was trying to Make are as follows"

    Stress over entire wing ( has to have flex )

    the wood will bend AND RETURN TO ITS ORIGINAL SHAPE within designed limits(whatever You choose those to be)

    A mild steel rod 13" or so long by 1/4" *ONCE BENT* WILL NOT RETURN TO ITS ORIGINAL SHAPE (not much flex but good strength)


    The ARF and AWRF and SELECT series of the AVISTAR and SUPERSTAR were all modified, the 96 and 2000 tech notes and Wing kits show wing joiners for both the ARF & AWARF.
    And STEEL rods for the SELECT version of each. After 2000?????????????? who know what they did.


    (Go to Tower H. and look at Avistar or Superstar 40's the check tech notes, at bottom there are two other models offered, check each one and the wing kits for each and the date on the end of the page)



    LXK965 Hobbico Sturdy Birdy II ARF w/Ailerons .20-.40,53"


    LXK967** Hobbico SuperStar 40 Select RTF 60"

    LXMU53** Hobbico Avistar 40 Select RTF 59"

    LXK970 Hobbico Avistar AWARF 40 II .40,59.5"

    LXPY56 Hobbico Avistar 40 II MonoKote ARF .40,59"

    LXK971 Hobbico SuperStar 40 ARF MonoKote .35-.46,60"

    LXK974 Hobbico SuperStar 40 AWARF.35-.40,60"

    I have had only one Super star" I bought out a guy 2 years ago that had only taxied it, but ground looped it into a bush.

    It has no detachable wing (no steel) and no bolt on tail (slot and glue) I gave it to Dago Red 2 weeks ago, but I'm sure he will tell anyone who asks, How it was assembled)I never flew it and only bought it for the radio and engine.

    Anyway as "grippm" points out there is many oppinions, and it is Your own choice to make.

    PS (why? They try to make arf's more versitile, being able to remove the wing for transport is a good selling point, but does not mean its a good setup.)

    Happy Flyin
    Dan Z
    **Enjoy the Thrill of Flight\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\' Become an R C Pilot**
    *I enjoy building 70\'\'\'\'s Kits as originally Mfg.*

  9. #34

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    Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

    Originally posted by wornboots
    Actually The Point I was trying to Make are as follows"
    Dan Z
    . Thanks for the nice post Dan but to be honest with you i'm fed up with dealing with TH.
    That tote box I put together for a kid came in Kit form and most of the wood was warped.
    Then I looked in the smaller catalog and saw the same item for close to $25.00 less but they refused to give me credit.
    They said to return it.
    I said I already did my best to soak the wood, keep weights on it and I put it together.
    Uhhh Sorry
    Is there anything else we can do for you.
    CLICK!!
    TH sells many good items at very good prices and what has me confused is why they continue to keep selling the junk made by others.
    They just lost a sale on a trainer.
    They won't fold up because of me but I paid $49.00 more and got what I wanted.
    I was able to look at the different models and look at the covering and picked up an Airstrike .
    What a beauty.
    I got to open up the box and give it a real good eye ball inspection.
    Has the Hi-Tech radio system in it.
    I stopped at used clothing store because they have an area where they just toss what they call junk in bug boxes.
    In the past I found car phones and late model cell phones for just a few bucks.
    Today I saw a radio controlled jeep.
    It had a 9.6 volt battery@1600 mils, a 9 volt battery at 4.5 600 mils and the charger.
    All for $10.00.
    I gave the Jeep to a kid walking down the street and kept the electronic parts.
    The batteries are worth more then that.
    They call me the trasher but I get some good deals
    Vegas/
    The only Easy Day Was Yesterday.

  10. #35
    WORNBOOTS's Avatar
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    Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

    Whirley Bird

    [They call me the trasher but I get some good deals]

    Thats the best way to do it, And how about the SMILE on the kid's face" or did You get the *Man are You nut's look*?

    Keep Up the spirit, That was great!

    And for tower' I will not renew my Super Saver again, I don't buy ARF or ARC so I cant use that reason. But the interest in profit and the quality of goods has suffered.

    What if Lou Andrews and Claude McCullough and Phil Kraft and on and on' Were just getting into the hobby today?????

    No matter what You fly or drive, This hobby can teach skills that are way beyond the normal learning curves. How many Here went to collage to be an RC Pilot?

    Dan Z
    **Enjoy the Thrill of Flight\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\'\' Become an R C Pilot**
    *I enjoy building 70\'\'\'\'s Kits as originally Mfg.*

  11. #36

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    Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

    Originally posted by wornboots
    Whirley Bird

    [They call me the trasher but I get some good deals]

    Thats the best way to do it, And how about the SMILE on the kid's face" or did You get the *Man are You nut's look*?

    Keep Up the spirit, That was great!

    And for tower' I will not renew my Super Saver again, I don't buy ARF or ARC so I cant use that reason. But the interest in profit and the quality of goods has suffered.


    Dan Z
    .Hi Dan,
    I just got off the phone with TH and I have a pre built box coming Monday shipped at their expense.
    I also informed them that the last time I made purchase I used my Card and I gave an ad number for a $15.00 discount plus I had a coupon for another $10.00 that never applied to the Super Star Select 40 trainer.
    They didn't want to talk about that but I have been known to be a fighter for my rights and I have nothing better to do then call my local consumer affairs division and tell them how TH refuses to accept their own coupons.
    I wil get my credit due.
    Getting back to that box,
    if the wood can't take a # 6 screw without splitting then it' doesn't qualify for a tote box.
    Not as far as i'm concerned any way.
    I have a nice Military box here that I used to keep all my rigging supplies in.
    It's built to last a life time.
    I just need to install some dividers.
    It's also built to take a lot of abuse.
    BTW,That kid was happy with that Jeep but I think i'm going to give him the batteries and charger.
    All he can do with it right now is look at it.
    I made a kid happy today and now i'll make his Mom happy because She won't have to get robbed at the RAT SHACK
    Vegas/
    The only Easy Day Was Yesterday.

  12. #37
    GotCoffee66's Avatar
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    Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

    I epoxied my wings, "had" the all wood version with no steel rod. Saturday I dumb thumbed mine while doing a low high speed turn toward me when the plane pitched down and toward me, I moved the stick to the left instead of under the low wing. She came down hard, wings broke in half, shattered the outside tips it hit so hard. The fuse was shattered almost half it's length. I'm fairly new so was my first plane and still am in shock. Like losing a dog. I liked the Avistar so much that I have one on order and should be here in a week. I have a new .46 Tower that was going to put in next week. Radio is fine, engine fine, one servo a little screwy now so will sell on e-bay... (just kidding).
    Ray

  13. #38

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    Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

    Originally posted by GotCoffee66
    I epoxied my wings, "had" the all wood version with no steel rod. Saturday I dumb thumbed mine while doing a low high speed turn toward me when the plane pitched down and toward me, I moved the stick to the left instead of under the low wing. She came down hard, wings broke in half, shattered the outside tips it hit so hard. The fuse was shattered almost half it's length. I'm fairly new so was my first plane and still am in shock. Like losing a dog. I liked the Avistar so much that I have one on order and should be here in a week. I have a new .46 Tower that was going to put in next week. Radio is fine, engine fine, one servo a little screwy now so will sell on e-bay... (just kidding).
    .
    If that was an Avistar you crashed then you flew beyond your limits as a newbie.
    Next time keep it higher.
    I have a lot of flight time but the only thing I do at low alitude is touch and go at a rather high speed.
    You'll love the trainer 60 but even that will crash if you do the same at low alitude.
    It flies slower and will respond slower.
    Keep it high and if you lose it then let the controls go and it will level out.
    I guess that 13 inch steel bar wouldn't save those wings.
    I looked at many kits and I can't justify paying so much for balsa thats so thin you can see light through it.
    An out of control plane like that can rearrange your face with that prop.
    Be careful.
    Vegas/
    The only Easy Day Was Yesterday.

  14. #39

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    Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

    Originally posted by Whirley Bird
    .
    THATS STRANGE,
    Every trainer from TH (RTF) and that goes for their new bigger one has the steel rod.
    The big trainer (RTF) Airstrike also has one.
    That rod has some weight to it so if your ARF does not have,did you have to add a lot of weight to get the right CG?
    Actually, I have the ARF version and not from TH - I bought it from my LHS. I don't know for sure, but from the pictures I've seen of the Metal-Rod version of the wing, the Metal Rod is almost right above the CG, so it wouldn't have much effect, if any.

  15. #40

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    Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

    Originally posted by jduran280


    Actually, I have the ARF version and not from TH - I bought it from my LHS. I don't know for sure, but from the pictures I've seen of the Metal-Rod version of the wing, the Metal Rod is almost right above the CG, so it wouldn't have much effect, if any.
    .I agree 100%
    But like I said in my other post if I can do with the wooden joiner then I can shead close to a pound of dead weight.
    But then some others say that I'll have to glue both wing halves together
    Vegas/
    The only Easy Day Was Yesterday.

  16. #41
    GotCoffee66's Avatar
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    Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

    Originally posted by Whirley Bird
    .
    If that was an Avistar you crashed then you flew beyond your limits as a newbie.
    Next time keep it higher.
    I have a lot of flight time but the only thing I do at low alitude is touch and go at a rather high speed.
    You'll love the trainer 60 but even that will crash if you do the same at low alitude.
    An out of control plane like that can rearrange your face with that prop.
    Be careful.
    The debris in my garage shows me that I flew beyond my limits. Have to live and learn. As for safety, that is the first thing my trainer taught me. I use stakes to hold my wings back when the plane is in the pit.
    When the crash happened, it was about 250-300 yards away. The only people on the flight line were my buddy and I. Thanks for the advice about the 60 trainer but a new avistar is in the mail. I am a safe flyer for poeple and other's personal property, as for the SPAD flyers in the area; they can clear the whole desert when they come out.
    Ray

  17. #42

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    Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

    Originally posted by GotCoffee66


    The debris in my garage shows me that I flew beyond my limits. Have to live and learn. As for safety, that is the first thing my trainer taught me. I use stakes to hold my wings back when the plane is in the pit.
    When the crash happened, it was about 250-300 yards away. The only people on the flight line were my buddy and I. Thanks for the advice about the 60 trainer but a new avistar is in the mail. I am a safe flyer for poeple and other's personal property, as for the SPAD flyers in the area; they can clear the whole desert when they come out.
    .Nothing wrong with the SPAD.
    As for the safety,
    Im not new to R/C but getting back into it after some time.
    I haad a total of 15 planes and only crashed one.
    To big,to fast and no throttle control.
    I now do al my flying on a farm or the big paved lot just 200 yarsd from me.
    Even today I do all my aero batics up high.
    Mother Earth seems to be a magnet for model planes
    Vegas/
    The only Easy Day Was Yesterday.


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