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Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

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Old 01-22-2003, 11:36 PM
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retnuh
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Default Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

When I did the final assembly on my Avistar 40 Select, I joined the two wing halves as the instructions stated. In another thread, someone stated that the wing halves should be epoxied together. Should I go back and do this? Also, is there anything else that should be modified from what the instructions state?

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Old 01-23-2003, 12:12 AM
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Default Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

Just depends on what you used to glue them together. I can't imagine you would have used anything other than CA. If so, just glue some fiberglass tape to the center section using either epoxy or thin CA. Be sure to glue to clean wood though, NOT COVERING!!!
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Old 01-23-2003, 12:27 AM
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Default Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

retnuh

Epoxy is used by many, some use CA others use Elmer's etc.

The strength of the joint is important, at the bottom of a loop there will be a lot of force placed on it. the fiberglass tape also adds strength, and the plastic tape that comes in some kits works too but the F/G seems stronger. There are many ways, but the strength of the joint is Critical.

Dan Z
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Old 01-23-2003, 12:41 AM
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Default Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

Knowing that my Avistar instructions do not mention glue at all, I'm assuming you didn't glue them together, just joined with the wing joiners. On the recommendation of a knowledgable person at my LHS, here's what I did.

Lightly rough up the surface of the steel rod and alignment pin with sandpaper. Balance the rod on your finger and mark the balance point with a marker. It doesn't have to be exact, you could also just mark the center. Trim away any covering that might be wrapped into the center of the wing. Using 30 minute epoxy, spread epoxy on half the rod and insert it in one wing half up to the mark. Do the same with the alignment pin. Spread epoxy on the exposed rod halves and the center of the wing half. Join the wing halves, and use masking tape to hold them together. Before the epoxy sets up, use rubbing alcohol to wipe away any excess epoxy that squeezes out of the joint. Once the epoxy cured, I installed the plastic wing joiners, but I doubt they're necessary now.

I recommend this since the Avistar wing being semi-symmetrical you can do some aerobatics with the plane. I've snapped mine around quite a bit and am glad I took the time to do this.
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Old 01-23-2003, 01:01 AM
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Default Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

Yes, definately epoxy the wing halves together. On my Avistar the only thing holding the wing together was those metal strips, and I am very lucky the wing didn't separate during a high speed loop. Instead the wing joiner rod bent in the middle and I was able to land the plane safely even with a gap between the wing halves. After I got a new joiner and epoxied the halves together I never had a problem.
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Old 01-23-2003, 01:17 AM
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Default Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

Hey retnuh, how exactly did you join the wing halves together ? what glue did you use, or didn't ?
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Old 01-23-2003, 04:45 AM
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Default Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

I have assembled/adjusted/repaired dozens of Avistars for folks. While everyone is mentioning the good part of epoxying the wing halves together, another critical spot is on the horizontal and vertical stabilizer. Those silly threaded rods just don't cut it after awhile, especially with the beating a beginner can dish out. Take the nuts off of the rods, remove both horizon. & vert stab, cut away the necessary covering, coat lightly with epoxy, then reassemble. Only other thing I can think of is to dab some epoxy around the servo mounting tray. Seen alot of them come loose after awhile.
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Old 01-23-2003, 07:23 AM
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Default Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

Quote:
Originally posted by klone
Yes, definately epoxy the wing halves together. On my Avistar the only thing holding the wing together was those metal strips, and I am very lucky the wing didn't separate during a high speed loop. Instead the wing joiner rod bent in the middle and I was able to land the plane safely even with a gap between the wing halves. After I got a new joiner and epoxied the halves together I never had a problem.
.I refuse to believe that.
It has the steel rod in the leading edge also.
That rod is solid steel 1/4 in diameter.
After reading this post I got mine out and I braced it with both hands against the work bench and applied about 40--50 pound of pressure on it and it barely gave in and when I let it go I rolled it on a flat surface and it didn't have even the slightest bend.
So then I measured the weight applied to it and it came out to 47 pounds.
So your saying that the remainder of the balsa wood and rubber bands will hold up but this 1/4 inch steel rod will bend?
If this did indeed happen then gluing the 2 wing halves together will (I assume) snap the wings where the rod bottoms out in the hole.
Accept my *apologies* if I'm wrong or missed something here.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++Heres how I balanced my Trainer.
I balanced both wing halves both CG and left and right tipping.
I put the 2 halves together and did the same.
Then mounted the wing and went over the CG and left & right and front and back.
My friend does it the other way.
He balances the fuse first because the muffler is off center then he does the same as I do with the wing but not each half.
He puts both halves together and does the CG and left & right tip balance.
It works. We held the plane up on the prop shaft and a small hook at the bottom rear and used mono line to raise it.
The left wing dropped a bit more then 3 inches but 2 drops of Elmer's glue on the other wing tip was all that was needed
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Old 01-23-2003, 01:33 PM
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Default Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

Rajul,
Since the instructions did not say to use any glue, I didn't. I will now take the wing apart and epoxy the halves together. I will also epoxy the horz and vert stabilizer.

Thanks for all of the replies.
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Old 01-23-2003, 02:02 PM
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Default Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

I recommend that you do not glue them together IF you check the cheapie strap before every flight. The time the ground reached up and smacked my Avistar and knocked the firewall out, I'm sure the wing would have broken if I had glued it together. Instead, the rod bent a bit and the strap popped out. Easy repair.

It's much easier to straighten the rod than repair a busted wing.

If you DO glue it, then glass the jount and epoxy the rod in as suggested above. Just epoxying the root ribs together is worse than useless because it adds stiffness with no additional strength. This only increases the risk of breaking the wing where the factory design allows for some flex without breaking anything.
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Old 01-23-2003, 05:24 PM
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Default Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

I have seen the bars bend also. maybe they are not all the same.
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Old 01-23-2003, 06:39 PM
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Default Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

Quote:
Originally posted by cwat212
I have seen the bars bend also. maybe they are not all the same.
OK,
I give up.
Can someone explain to me how a 1/4 inch solid steel bar will bend and the balsa wing stay intack?
We just shattered a 1 inch diameter wooden dowel and had that steel rod clamped in a vice.
That dowel is stronger then balsa.
What am I missing here?
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Old 01-23-2003, 10:53 PM
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Default Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

Some things to consider:

1) The rod is very soft metal. When it fails, it's not a "catastrophic" failure. It bends a bit.

2) The built-up covered balsa wing is quite strong. When it fails, it's a "catastrophic" failure.

I dunno, but I'd be willing to bet that was a design feature to reduce wing fractures.

Which fault is more likely to be fatal?
1) Bent wing rod?
2) Shattered wing?

Which is easier to repair?

Hmmm....

Admittedly, the "rod bending" event will occur more frequently than a shattered wing. But, just like a sucking chest wound, it's nature's way of saying, "Slow Down!" Unlike a sucking chest wound or shattered wing, it's no biggie.
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Old 01-23-2003, 11:45 PM
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Default Epoxy, YES!!!

PLEASE epoxy the wing together....

I bought the Select model in February 2002. I roughed up the steel rod, slapped some epoxy on it and then epoxied the wing halves together...once they were together, I used a strip of 1" fiberglass cloth to reinforce it some more (cut back very gently about 1" of the covering on each wing half.) Use some rubbing alcohol on your finger to smooth out the epoxy before it dries and then let it set. Once it sets, you can sand it a little smoother, but don't sand too much off. Then, buy a strip of the sticky Monokote repair strops and cut out a piece to cover that part of the wing...

I did this and the wing is SUPER strong...unfortunately the pland has been tossed around a little (one set of cartwheels on a rough landing and another inverted fly-by that got a little too low!)

Seriously, you will not regret strengthening the wing...

It is a great plane!!!

-John
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Old 01-24-2003, 12:29 AM
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Default Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

Hi retnuh, use 30 or 60-min epoxy for joining, but never the 5-min type. glass the center of the wing if you can........
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Old 01-24-2003, 05:14 AM
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Default Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

Is this the Avistar Select that you put together? (RTF) I just put together an Avistar ARF last weekend, and there was no metal rod, just a small laminated wood joiner and an alignment peg at the trailing edge all of which needed to be epoxied. This was fairly easy to do - and probably much stronger than the metal rod and joint tape alone.
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Old 01-24-2003, 05:43 AM
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Default Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

I've been flying the hell out of my RTF version, never epoxied the wing. I haen't had any problems except for the screws falling out of the little metal wing clamps. CA'd those suckers in and haven't had trouble since. I know that I have exceeded the recommended speed and G's with this plane. Still holding together well.
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Old 01-24-2003, 07:36 AM
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Default Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

Quote:
Originally posted by jduran280
Is this the Avistar Select that you put together? (RTF) I just put together an Avistar ARF last weekend, and there was no metal rod, just a small laminated wood joiner and an alignment peg at the trailing edge all of which needed to be epoxied. This was fairly easy to do - and probably much stronger than the metal rod and joint tape alone.
.
THATS STRANGE,
Every trainer from TH (RTF) and that goes for their new bigger one has the steel rod.
The big trainer (RTF) Airstrike also has one.
That rod has some weight to it so if your ARF does not have,did you have to add a lot of weight to get the right CG?
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Old 01-24-2003, 07:57 AM
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Default Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

Quote:
Originally posted by bgi
Some things to consider:

1) The rod is very soft metal. When it fails, it's not a "catastrophic" failure. It bends a bit.

.
.Not on any of the planes I have.
The rod is 1/4 inch solid steel.
------->>>>The rod is very soft metal. When it fails, it's not a "catastrophic" failure. It bends a bit<<-- How do you know this?
Balsa leading edge vs solid steel rod and the rod bends and wing survives??
Well,
We couldn't bend it here in the shop under 47 pounds of weight plus we also used a 1 inch wooden dowel.
The dowel shattered.
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Old 01-24-2003, 08:09 AM
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Default Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

Quote:
Originally posted by PigMan Buggerus
I've been flying the hell out of my RTF version, never epoxied the wing. I haen't had any problems except for the screws falling out of the little metal wing clamps. CA'd those suckers in and haven't had trouble since. I know that I have exceeded the recommended speed and G's with this plane. Still holding together well.
Hey PigMan,
I'm with you.
Haven't flown my own vistar yet but flew another one owned by a Guy who I can't get to fly.
He just watches.
I did the same.
Glued in the screws and forgot about it.
That 46 engine really make that trainer fly.
Also makes you think what it will do with even a bit more power
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Old 01-24-2003, 01:27 PM
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Default Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

Whirly Bird,

How do I know the rod bends a bit? Because I've bent mine twice. I have money that says the wing would be a pile of balsa splinters both times if the wing was glued.

Plane still flies great. Now if the wing had folded, I'd have one less plane in the hangar. Don't tell the wife.

It wasn't difficult to straighten the rod once I decided that the "usual" methods didn't work out so well. I laid it on my garage floor with the ends down and bent center up. A few hammer taps and it's fine.

Perhaps all the rods aren't made of the same material.

If you guys feel the need to glue the wings together, that's great. I'll no longer argue against it. It's your plane. :thumbup:

About the CG changing because some wings have a wooden wedge joiner: Isn't the rod on the CG? If so, you just end up with less weight when you get the wooden joiner.
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Old 01-24-2003, 02:12 PM
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Default Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

GLUE THAT WING TOGETHER. Don't put peoples lives in danger. CA it and glass and then never worry about it.
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Old 01-24-2003, 03:16 PM
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Default huh?

I have been reading these post trying to figure out what I missed???? I am currently finishing an Avistar and there sure werent any steel rods and you definitely have to glue the wings together. I finally realized you guys must be talking about the foam wing one. I purchased the awarf. If not im in big trouble.
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Old 01-24-2003, 03:31 PM
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Default Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

Not a foam wing. The RTF version is a wood wing, it has a steel joiner rod, and metal brackets to actually hold the wing together. The instructions call for no gluing, just attach the wing brackets.

The AWARF has a wooden dihedral brace, and epoxy is required. So it sounds like you are on the right track with the gluing of your wing.
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Old 01-24-2003, 03:35 PM
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Default Should I re-do my Avistar wing?

Quote:
Originally posted by bgi
Whirly Bird,

It wasn't difficult to straighten the rod once I decided that the "usual" methods didn't work out so well. I laid it on my garage floor with the ends down and bent center up. A few hammer taps and it's fine.

Perhaps all the rods aren't made of the same material.

If you guys feel the need to glue the wings together, that's great. I'll no longer argue against it. It's your plane. :thumbup:

About the CG changing because some wings have a wooden wedge joiner: Isn't the rod on the CG? If so, you just end up with less weight when you get the wooden joiner.
Well I just went to my desk thats made of steel.
I used the upper part of my body and pushed down hard.
The rod did take a slight bend but bounced back again.
I tried again and I would say I applied a good 100 pounds of weight to it and now I have a very slight bend but you can't tell unless you roll it on a flat surface.
I'd say the weight is close to a pound and it's 13 and a 1/4 long and one end has a hole in it.
If I can i'd like to get rid of that and remove some weight.
BTW,
I never glued any of my wings together and so far had no problems but I sure use a lot of rubber bands.
Thanks for the input
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