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experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

Old 01-07-2007, 06:44 PM
  #1  
bskin101
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Default experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

Hey Guys. After a 15 years absence I have decided to get back into R/C planes. I have decided on the Dynaflite Butterfly as my re-intro bird. I have read all the ratings and past forum on this plane so I know that it is a slow and not intended to be flown in the wind. Since my absence i have lost the terminology:
What is polyhedral?
And Dihedral?

I should recieve my kit tomorrow. So i'm ready to get started. Since I have read about many folding winds I plan on making the wings as strong as possible. I have thought about using fiberglass strips on the wings but would like some advise.
I want to add alerions.
As for landing gear. I'm thinking about moving the landing gear closer to the tail and putting on a front wheel. It has been said in the forums that the front needs weight to balance out. So figured this would help even it out thought the main gear would be moved back.
Plus I would like to add a 6 Oz fuel tank for extended run times and again help destribute the weight. If the front wheel does not work then I will settle for a tail wheel.

Any Ideas or advise wanted.
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Old 01-08-2007, 06:38 AM
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Default RE: experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

Dihedral is a single angle in the wing surface, usually at the center, forming a VERY shallow "V". Polyhedral is 2 or more. The additional angles are usually about 1/2-2/3 out from the center. Di and polyhedral make the plane more stable and "self correcting". They also make the rudder more effective and the ailerons less effective.

Unless you overpower it, you won't need to strengthen the wings. BTW, a .15 is PLENTY of power for this floater.

I would NOT add ailerons. This wing is a polyhedral surface, and the whole plane is really designed to fly very well (and it does) on rudder only for turning.

Do not add a nose wheel. In any type of wind at all, the take-off and landing runs will be about 20 feet. What do you need a nose wheel for? Move the main gear forward a little.

A 6 oz. fuel tank will let you fly about an hour with a .15 (just kidding), Actually, it WILL have LONG flight times with this size tank, and it will help the balance issue.

Let me make a general comment. You're talking about several options and additions that will add weight to the plane. IMO, this is a mistake. More weight might help penetrate the wind, but might also alter the fine flying characteristics of this powered glider. I'd build it basically as is, it's a good-flying plane. Since you haven't flown in 15 years, I assume you haven't been building, either. Build your first comeback plane mostly by the book, then modify your scond plane after your building skills come back.

Dr.1
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Old 01-08-2007, 06:00 PM
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Default RE: experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

Thank you Dr1Driver. I am going to use a .15 to power the plane. I also have a .25 that I might put in later but I need to get the thing in the air b4 i start making engine changes.
No ailerons and nose wheel will not be added b/c your right. I just need to stick to the plans to get my feet wet again. Building will not be a problem for me b/c I am carpenter/contractor so I build things all the time.

Again thanks for the input.
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Old 01-08-2007, 08:51 PM
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Default RE: experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

When you get it done and flying DON'T dive it and pull up fast as they WILL fold the wing !!!! Even with a 15 on it. And as far as the wind goes, they do OK in a pretty stiff wind, you just have to pay real close attention to what you are doing, they fly backwards real good. Other ten that I agree with DR 1 Driver. ENJOY !!! RED
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Old 01-09-2007, 12:19 AM
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Default RE: experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

When you get it could you maybe post some pics of the manual? I have one of these from a long time ago given to me by my uncle but it didn't come with instructions to build it, and I have never built a kit before.
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Old 01-09-2007, 06:48 AM
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Default RE: experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

bte214,

If you've never built a kit, I wouldn't start with the Butterfly. Unless Dynaflite has cleaned up their act, the plans/instructions often bear little resemblence to the actual wood provided. That being said, an experienced builder will have little touble figuring things out.

Dr.1
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Old 01-09-2007, 07:32 AM
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Default RE: experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

A couple of buddies and myself have them, and I use an old OS 26, 4 stroke on mine. We love to fly them late in the evening, and idle them until it's almost dark, and then fly them until there is hardly any light left. Very relaxing style of flying. It is not unusual to get flights of more than 30 minutes with these birds and the slow flight. They really fly themselves, and we occasionally, "Disturb" them to make turns and keep them in view. Enjoy,

Bill, AMA 4720
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Old 01-09-2007, 11:21 PM
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Default RE: experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

bte214,

Dr1Driver is right. I just got the kit yesterday and the rumors are right. The pictures in the instructions are bad. The booklett itself is only 8"x10" open. Very Small, no TOO SMALL!!!
I have a lot of experince building things and this is my third plane so I looked at the plans and feel very confident.
bte214 I hope the kit still has the full scale plans. They are very important.
If not, you can contact Dynaflite or Great Planes and tell them that you want to purchase what you. It should not be expensive.

Thanks for the advise guys keep them coming.
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Old 01-10-2007, 06:26 AM
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Default RE: experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

I recommend that you do not cover the wings with anything other then Monokote. I know that Monokote has been getting alot of bad press lately, deserved, or otherwise. However, Monokote has stiffniss, which this wing needs desperatly. The one I built for a friend this summer was covered with transparent UltraCote. Although told not to dive the airplane, he did with devistating results. I was informed during the process of building of the weakness of the wing, so I beefed it up! Obviously it didn't help much.

The bare wing lacks torsional ridgidity due to no sheeting used in the wings construction. Therefore the wing's torsional rigidity comes from the covering material. Certainly the transparent Ultracote lacks stiffniss, in my opinion. I have an Airtronics Oly II with no sheeting in the wing; but, covered with transpartent Monokote. This sailplane was built in 1978 and is still going strong.
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Old 01-10-2007, 09:48 PM
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Default RE: experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

What is too much of a dive for this plane? Any thing over 45 degrees?
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Old 01-12-2007, 11:02 PM
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Default RE: experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

It isn't really the dive that hurts, it's the pull out at the bottom that usually folds the wings. Gentle movements work fine. Of course I guess if you could dive it and get it fast enough that could also do some damage.

When I was flying mine there were about 4 other ones in the club and I was the only one that survived because I had reinforced my wing a lot, they didn't and tried to do the same things I did and every one folded their wings. One other one lasted a long time because he flew it pretty calm.

I wouldn't normally keep harping on this subject but I know what it takes to build a Butterfly and I hate to see folks spend that much time and wipe it out real quick. Either reinforce it or keep the flying slow, smooth and easy !!!!
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Old 01-12-2007, 11:20 PM
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Default RE: experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

I absolutely agree with keeping it simple and light. Use light foam wheels, you can use mini servos, don't add to it, and use the .15. I use white glue for all wood to wood guing--no epoxy. When the water evaporates from the white glue you are left with a light, strong joint. Nothing evaporates from epoxy, so everything you put on stays, and it's heavy. I don't even use it for firewalls or landing gear blocks.

A new guy in our club tried to build his Butterfly extra sturdy thinking he would get more crash resistance. What he got was a dog that could barely get off the ground. Then he bought a .25 for it to make up for the weight, but it flew much faster and he lost control and crashed it in the woods. If you can get past the Dynaflite construction and just build as designed with a .15 it will be a really nice plane for your purpose.

Btw, lightness is especially important in the tail. You don't need a tail wheel if you fly off grass--a skid is fine and it can be steerable if there is a bracket--that's what I do for almost all my planes and ground handling is just as good as with a tail wheel. Save weight wherever you can. You can't make a plane crash proof, but if you build light it won't have so much momentum when it hits--that's actually better crash protection than beefing up. Good luck, and let us know. Jim
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Old 01-13-2007, 08:28 AM
  #13  
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Default RE: experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

ORIGINAL: red head
It isn't really the dive that hurts, it's the pull out at the bottom that usually folds the wings. Gentle movements work fine. Of course I guess if you could dive it and get it fast enough that could also do some damage.

When I was flying mine there were about 4 other ones in the club and I was the only one that survived because I had reinforced my wing a lot, they didn't and tried to do the same things I did and every one folded their wings. One other one lasted a long time because he flew it pretty calm.

I wouldn't normally keep harping on this subject but I know what it takes to build a Butterfly and I hate to see folks spend that much time and wipe it out real quick. Either reinforce it or keep the flying slow, smooth and easy !!!!
I disagree! I think it is speed which the airframe can't handle. Speed is built up in the dive and speed causes the wing to flutter. My guess is most of the failures which have occurred to this airplane were caused by flutter. The wing lacks torsional rigidity, as a I stated earlier.

I also disagree with not using epoxy. Epoxy has strength which white glue lacks and should be used wherever it is recommended by the manufacturer! Also, if you really want to build light, use CA. Some people react to CA and likely should stay away from using it. However, for the lightness of the build, nothing beats CA.

Buzzard Bait, I found your post could be confused and felt the need to clairfy that epoxy absolutely needs to be used in certain instances, such as the dihedral reinforcements at the polyhedral and center section joiner pin and tubes.
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Old 01-13-2007, 10:05 AM
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Default RE: experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

Mode One, I have used white glue over and over for dihedral braces, landing gear blocks and firewalls in countless airplanes for many, many years. My glue joints do not fail. I have a lot of experience behind that statement. Jim
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Old 01-13-2007, 10:45 AM
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Default RE: experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

On second thought, you've got a point--I need to qualify my statement about epoxy. White glue joints are strong for all wood to wood applications IF they are properly done. Read the directions on the bottle, and make good joints. White glue is not gap filling, or only slightly so. Epoxy is more tolerant of joints that don't quite fit right.

It's a very common mistake of beginners to think they need to use epoxy to make strong joints. Often they will build up glue filets with it thinking they will make it even stronger--the end result is a plane more prone to crash damage because of excess weight. But careful use of epoxy in limited areas will not build up too much weight.

I prefer white glue because it is lighter, less messy, quicker to use, it soaks into the wood a little, it gives excellent strength, and sands reasonably well (I like Weldbond--I think it sands better than some others). I don't like the fumes of CA and its refusal to be sanded.

Jim
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Old 01-13-2007, 11:12 AM
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Default RE: experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

The only Butterfly I ever saw fly crashed on the second flight. It was dived by it's student pilot which folded the wings at about 200 feet after pulling back hard to loop I guess. The instructor had taken the plane up and basically turned the plane over to the student who decided he wanted show everyone what he had learned on Realflight.......not much I guess. I had previously refused to instruct him because of his attitude.
He never came back, just as well I suspect.
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Old 01-13-2007, 11:23 AM
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Default RE: experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

I built mine last winter and flew it more than any other plane last summer. I found the instructions very good, material good and had no problems with construction. Covered it with Monokote I had left over from other planes, powered it with a Thunder Tiger 15. I beefed up the wing at the bends slightly with extra music wire and 1/16 ply. I had to add 3 3/4 oz. nose weight and have a 6 oz tank that gives me half hour flights. As their instruction manual cautions, this is a "powered sailplane" and should be flown as such. It's not designed as a stunt plane. It's a relaxing plane, easy to fly (I usually hand launch per book instructions) and great for just crusing around looking for thermals. If you want to really exercise your heart and nervous system, leave the Butterfly home and take a TF P-47 or Corsair to the feild.
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Old 01-13-2007, 01:26 PM
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Default RE: experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

ORIGINAL: buzzard bait
On second thought, you've got a point--I need to qualify my statement about epoxy. White glue joints are strong for all wood to wood applications IF they are properly done. Read the directions on the bottle, and make good joints. White glue is not gap filling, or only slightly so. Epoxy is more tolerant of joints that don't quite fit right.

It's a very common mistake of beginners to think they need to use epoxy to make strong joints. Often they will build up glue filets with it thinking they will make it even stronger--the end result is a plane more prone to crash damage because of excess weight. But careful use of epoxy in limited areas will not build up too much weight.

I prefer white glue because it is lighter, less messy, quicker to use, it soaks into the wood a little, it gives excellent strength, and sands reasonably well (I like Weldbond--I think it sands better than some others). I don't like the fumes of CA and its refusal to be sanded.

Jim
Jim, I agree whole heartedly with you about using carpenter's glue and use it myself. I may use it to glue dihedral braces, also. The reason I felt I needed to disagree, was you could be misinterpreted as stating white glue could be used to replace epoxy.
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Old 01-14-2007, 04:26 PM
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Default RE: experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

Guys thank you for your input!! I have just finished the fin and stabilizer. Tonight I might have time to start the wings.

I do have another question:
What are the best hinges to use? Pivot point hinges, CA hinges, or pinned hinges?

Again thanks for you help so far!
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Old 01-14-2007, 05:00 PM
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Default RE: experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

The CA hinges are fine. Doesn't the kit come with them? Or, you can use any type you prefer. For ease of installation, however, CA hinges work fine and are easy to install. Also for this airplane, which flies slowly, they are more then strong enough. Each type of hinge takes a special method for installation. I would think going to the Search option and typing in "Hinging" will expose you to 50 knock down-drag out arguments about which way to hinge is best.
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Old 01-29-2007, 05:53 PM
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Default RE: experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

Well it has been a couple of weeks and I am almost at the point of covering my Butterfly.
The instructions have not been to bad. But there are some complaints. You would like to think that a plane that is as well known and has been around for so long that the plans and instuctions would have all the kinks knocked out.
I am going to stiffen the wings. I plan to put webbing between the spars on the wing ends polyhidrel and apply fiberglass tape on the over the top and bottom spars.

any ideals?
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Old 02-20-2007, 10:39 AM
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Default RE: experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

The Butterfly is one of the great "slow fly" airplanes, I have two, one with a Magnum 25, the other is electric powered. I seldom fly the Mag powered any more since electric gets me up to find thermals and I can shut down the motor. When I lose the thermal I start the motor and go after another one. To save weight I eliminated the landing gear, and used a carbon fibre wing rod. To go electric you need to extend the nose so the balance is is easier to obtain. Good luck, you will really enjoy this plane.
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Old 02-26-2007, 09:18 PM
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Default RE: experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

hey guys!
i am about to start covering my plane. I had to take a couple of weeks of for some other honeydos but now i'm back to work on my butterfly.

I just wanted to show how i strengthen the wing joints so they will NOT FOLD.

1st i used a 1/8th inch thick ply and made a gusset to go into the connecting ribs and touching the adjoints ones. Then used expoy to srt them in place.
2nd i used the included 1/16 music on the leading edge and trailing edge. Look at pics. I expoied them to the L&T edges so give exrta support.

I have an idea on how to stop the wings from fluttering but i don't know if i will use it or not.
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Old 02-27-2007, 07:09 PM
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Default RE: experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

Looks like you are getting it done!! Keep us informed as to your progress, it's fun to watch someone else do all the work, and we would like to see what it looks like when done.

I still stand FIRM on flying it EASY and SMOOTH, it will last a lot longer that way!!!!!! ENJOY !!! RED
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Old 02-28-2007, 10:00 PM
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Default RE: experince on Dynafite Butterfly needed.

Thanks Red.
I do plan on keeping the plane on a nice and slow pace but i do have my days that i might want to put a .25 in it just to see what it can do. I hope that only happens once b/c i do not want to do something stupid and lose this plane to a crash from being to rough.

Red have your wings ever folded on your butterfly?
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