MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Dick, a Double application of CA is a definite No-no

Dr1Driver

Good point, Minn. I never used the wax line myself. I always relied on sight to determine the approximate center of the hinge. This ain't rocket science, people. I've put CA hinges into a 1/4" square balsa TE with a solid control surface and they never pulled out, so I guess the exact center isn't necessary.

Dr.1

FLAPHappy

My Feedback: (209)

Thanks Guys for your input. I will try, let me say try to install them correctly. I built planes 30 years ago, and the CA hinges were not invented yet, so I stayed with the old nylon hinges. They do take more time to install, but what I have learned here is,Ca hinges is the way too go , installed properly. I will use them that were supplied with the ARF's. Thank you for your comments.
Paul

kid chuckles

Well i learned something on this post and will have to check the Eratix I just got thru with. I did go back it think and put extra CA I did one side the other then went back to the other side again. I did not wait or anything. But did go back and repeat the process. Do you guys think not waiting over 15 sec. while doing the other side will matter. I pulled hard on them after hinging. They seemed fine. I always get mine lined up with a T-pin in the center but then pull them out right before applying CA and push my ail. up tite. Still end up with gaps but very small and from the wood not being completley straight on either side.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Kid, applying CA like that won't hurt, but the excess isn't needed either.

As for the gap, you NEED a small gap. Very often CA Hinge failure is due to people trying to close the gap completely.

Please read the link above for installing CA hinges and you'll see why

agexpert

My Feedback: (1)

For those of you with too much time on your hands;

There are many of us who have endured the inadequacies of CA hinges. We know how to install them, but later realized that they are just not sufficient for our style of flying. As I clearly stated, they are JUST FINE if you don't actually use them. People who fly with maximum throw, repetitive inputs, high stresses and who fly hundreds of hours that way should stay FAR away from such JUNK.

It's great that you can fly big ovals for a hundred years on paper hinges, but some of us don't fly that way. Any application with more than 30 degrees of throw, repetitive cycles and high aerodynamic stress requires and ACTUAL hinge, not a piece of glorified construction paper and some krazy-glue.

Get over yourselves. Just because some of us have found the limits to a design DOES NOT indicate, necessarily, that we are incapable of following SIMPLE instructions.

Jeez, what a bunch of know-it-alls. Ask yourselves why there are so few younger people entering this fine hobby, but do so in front of a large mirror.

CA hinges are JUST FINE for light applications. Technology has granted us more powerful TOY airplane engines, lighter TOY airframes, better TOY airplane design and frankly, we have outgrown paper/saran-wrap hinges. They are JUNK when used in a modern high performance TOY airplane...but they are just fine in any trainer of 'warbird'.

Seriuosly, do you really think you are that much smarter than everyone else, or are you just afraid of the little 10 year-old kids who can out-fly us all?

It's pretty sad, in my opinion, that anyone would assume that repetitive failures of a given design could only be due to 'improper installation'. Just in case you didn't notice, many of us can read, follow instruction, fly circles around you and give sound advice too. It's great that a man with over 30 years of experience in the hobby is willing to give advice, but he should be willing to take some too. (Not to mention that his knowledge of a constantly-evolving technology is as much as 30 years old).

This hobby is not just about scale warbirds anymore. It's a multi-faceted group with diverse interests and we are being ignored by the very people whom WE PAY to advance our hobby.

I, for one, have access to large PRIVATE acreage. That is where I fly. I have grown weary of club politics. I am selective about whom I invite to fly with me, and I can afford to have planes buit for me.

Please don't make such bold assumptions. You look foolish. CA hinges are not intended for CERTAIN styles of flying. We are not idiots, we can read and follow simple instructions. I appologize for my lengthy post, but I have grown weary of those of you who just plain REFUSE to acknowledge that this hobby is changing for the better.

With the advent of 2.4GHZ freq-hopping technology, the necessity of dedicated flying sites will wain. A runway is just a flat spot on the earth, nothing more. A club can exist independent of a flying site and I suspect that many more will...Again I apologize for my passionate response, but I am a bit frustrated by the stubbornness of the 'old guard'.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Your point is well taken, but this is why I emphasize that before gluing, the control surface must be deflected MORE than it will move in flight. The problem here is that if you fly with excessive control throws, this will create a larger gap than some people find comfortable. I have actually SEEN people move the surface, and then say, "That's too much gap" and then close the gap a little before adding glue. BAD MOVE.

So agexpert has a good point, if you plan to fly 3-D you may want to consider something like a Robart Hinge Point or other pinned-type hinge.

Charlie P.

Heck. I thought CA hinges were the new cutting age technolong that the "new kids" brought about and I was adapting quite nicely.

When I'm not ARFing around I take the time to set pinned hinges as I do prefer them.

Yep. That's me. Slow, lazy racetrack patterns.

Age and treachery can always triumph over youth and skill.

People skills have to be practiced just like flying skills. If you give up when it gets hard you don't develop and get stuck doing race-track patterns and getting nowhere.

Dr1Driver

Well, agexpert, you and I couldn't be farther apart on this subject. You know what you know and I know what I know. Anythng I post in here I've either done or seen done successfully. Your mileage may vary.

I, personally, have installed CA hinges on pylon racers, a giant scale Stinger, and Unlimited-class competition fun fly planes. That's about as extreme as you can get. BTW, Unlimited-class competition fun fly was what 3D was before people knew to call it 3D. When you're doing 3' diameter loops 4' off the ground at full throttle, that's extreme. This is on a 48" wingspan plane with 5" wide ailerons and a 4" wide elevator. A .32 engine typically turning a 10-4 prop at over 15 grand.

Minnflyer makes some good factual points. If you make the hinge line gap too tight, you'll stress the hinge. If you do any of the other no-nos other posters, including myself, have mentioned, THEN they will fail.

I don't fly lazy circles. I have a self-designed Miss Martha-type that'll run about 100 mph and will cut its own tail off in maneuvers. All at full throttle. 3 turn per second rolls and a vertical rolling full throttle Death Dive that ends with a square corner pull out. That's extreme.

I'll repeat and stand by it - if your CA hinges are failing, they're not installed properly.

And on that note, I'm outta this one.

Dr.1

hungryandbroke

Use everything that comes with the plane, CA hinges, linkages, tanks, and so on. Then when your plane crashes tell the manufacturer their BS failed and you want them to send you a new plane!

Personally I've never used CA hinges. Always used dubro pinned hinges and after many flights they even have a tendency to come loose. But, since I pin the dubro with a toothpick on each side after I install them they never pull out completely.

If I ever did use CA hinges I'd be sure to pin those on each side too with a toothpick.

Next time you go out to eat, grab a handfull.

kid chuckles

Does not the manufactuer selling the planes ARF"S send what they think is the best pieces at the lowest cost to them. It would not be less cost if they were having hinge problems. Do the really big planes use fiber hinges I have seen them on several 100 size planes and have them on a couple. I am not good enough to break them i guess lol. But do planes such as say a 27% Cap 232 come with fiber hinges? I am pretty sure my buddies came with robart type hinges. With his ARF package. Man i have done some of the stunts that have been described above but then had to take on oxygen. Something to get me breathing again lol. But i for sure like there easability. Someone never had a plane can set there hinges if they just read the manuel of how.
Minn i was thinking that well you know guys put hinge tape to cover the gaps so that is why i take the pin out and get close as possible. Have never had one come out or anything but do understand your gap point and may go back to leaving the pin gap. Thanks guys learn something everyday.

Charlie P.

My Ultimate 1.60 (43cc Fuji) 30%+/- came with CA hinges and that's what I used to hinge it.

Might be interesting to ask of those who have had fiber hinge failures whether they balance their props and spinners? Vibration will stress any material and stress causes failure. And a model should be flown on a fast low pass occasionally to listen for flutter, as well as a pre-flight to spot signs (opening of the holes in control horns or servo arms from vibration). About 20 seconds of aileron flutter will also do in a CA hinge, so if you're overpowering the model and underthinking when to reduce throttle it could have fatal results.

You don't blame a $50 Michelin tire that fails because you're doing 150 mph down the highway and it ripped apart. That's misuse of product. If you over-engine you should over-hinge and over-control linkage. That's just common sense.

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

Well, Age.. you certainly told us. And we certainly appreciate that.

Have a good day... and don't use those CA hinges.. but I hope you won't mind if we continue to do so becaue we trust that we installed them correctly.

We've beat this horse to death, that's for sure. As Dr., I'm outta here.

CGr.

danny31292

I use ca hinges on all my planes. I have found out that the great planes ca hinges are complete crap. They will hold fine in flight. However when I deadsticked my extra and planted it preaty hard the hinges came right out on the rudder. The fibers stayed glued in the slot but the plastic part that was the inside of the hinge ripped out.(They are plastic hinges coated with a fiber material that wicks the ca and holds to the wind) I'm using radio south hinges now.

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

I've seen some hinges that the outside layer.. ?? came off like some sort of covering. I tossed them and opted for some Dubro's that I bought at the LHS. I don't recall if they were Great Planes or not (the ones that came apart on me).

CGr.

danny31292

Sorry about my completely illegible post. The great planes ca hinges are plastic that has a a layer of ca wicking fiber completely covering it. When I hit the rudder the hinge stayed in the plane section but the other half(the rudder half) came out. What came out was not the half of a ca hinge but the plastic inside of the hinge that did not have the fibers on it. The hinge is not a piece of wicking material but a sandwich of wicking material with a structural piece of plastic on the inside. Maybe this is easier to understand or someone else can clarify.

Iflyglow

My Feedback: (79)

I have seen it happen in person with GP and Dubro's. I bought a few different brands years ago, and made up some samples to test there strength to destruction. The only ones that I could not get to delaminate or break were the Sig easy hinges and the Radio South blue hinges. I did not like the out come of the Dubro and Greap planes products.
Now, All I use is Radio South, and have never ever broke one or pulled it out.
I had to use a 6" vise grips to destroy the Radio South hinge.

agexpert

My Feedback: (1)

LOL.

Illiteracy truly is a terrible problem.

It would be helpful if you could get someone to read all of the words to you before you make a another feeble reply. Just in case you didn't notice, there are a lot of people with as much or, perish the thought, even more knowledge about certain things than even you.

As far as, 'beating this horse to death', why did you make this drippingly sarcastic post. Was it necessary, helpful or informative?...no. Was it personal?...sadly, yes.

You can go on believing that you know better or you can wake-up to the fact that your attitude is turning-away many younger potential participants in this fine hobby. The AMA has begun to recognize it, although a bit late. Please tell us all again how anyone who has a failure of a CA hinge has OBVIOUSLY installed them improperly. When you are finished with that, please explain again why it is that membership is down while sales of TOY airplanes, TOY airplane radios, and TOY airplane engines/servos/recievers of all types sizes and power classes are up.

Really sir, did you really need to pretend that you were so much better than the rest of us who enjoy this fine hobby. It really is important to read all of the words of a post, in-context, before making a reply. If you demonstrate an acute inability to accomplish that task, one can only assume that you are having difficulty with reading comprehension in general.

"We've beat this horse to death, that's for sure. As Dr., I'm outta here".

"CGr".


L O friggin L!

harmsway

What size hole do you suggest?

agexpert

My Feedback: (1)

LOL

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

For what?

harmsway

The small holes you put in the slots for setting CA hinges.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

About 1/8 inch

somegeek

My Feedback: (2)

I've had great luck with CA hinges in a few planes and no cracking or failures.



somegeek

harmsway

Minnflyer, thanx for your help. Also, your tutorial on CA hinges was very educational.
Thanx again, I learned alot.