Popriv

Help!
I'm looking to get back into this hobby after 20 years.
I had built a number of planes, I flew two 6' gliders for about 2 dozen flights then dropped it. ( the hobby that is )
Now I would like to get into powered flight and have been looking at kits in the $300 range.
These would come with a radio of questionable quality? only good with this receiver?

I now think a better solution for me to get back in the game is to finish a plane that has been hanging from my ceiling for over 20 years!
I took it down last night, cleaned off 1/4" of dust, and its pretty much what I'm looking for.
I think it was a Midwest model? The problem is, I long ago got tired of moving the box with all the unfinished parts around and threw it out. along with the instructions.
Its a 52" wingspan held on top of the fusilage with elastic bands. The fusilage and wing are done and covered. All other parts were thrown out.
I need to add alierons to the wing, elevator to the tail, front wheel, all servos, receiver and connections, motor and gas tank.
I wont have a problem adding the control surfaces myself but the electronics, servos and the engine installation I'm not to sure of.

I also dont know what engine size it will handle.

I could post a picture of where I stand now if that would help?

As far as the radio I plan on buying a spectrim DX6 for just under $200 vs. the DX7 for $350ish.
Is it a mistake to go for the cccccheaper DX6? I plan on having multiple planes.
Hopefully I'll get this trainer going then I'll put new electronics in my old Segata glider and will probably add a more advanced powered plane once I get better.
With the Spectrim I can control all the planes with one controller and a receiver in each plane..

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I'm going to the LHS tonight and show them what I've got so far.


TIA

Steve

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

That's your best bet. Sounds like it needs a lot of simple things. It will be much easier for them to show you than for us to tell you.

Mttvannest

Steve,
As far as the radio goes, I use a Dx6i. I assume you mean this radio. The DX6 (no i) is a short range radio meant for park flyers. Before you choose between the DX6i and the DX7 just think what you will need from your radio. With 6 channel you have 4 for flight plus 2 more for retracts, flaps, bombs, or anything else like that. When it comes to programing options, the DX6i has everything the average sport flyer would need and more. No sense is paying for an extra channel on the DX7 if you'll never use it.
As for the plans and manual, I had the same problem with a midwest pitts special i bought at a swap meet. I posted a thread in the kit builders section and someone saw it and was able to email me a copy of the manual and plans. It was a 1974 kit, 10 years older than me! There is a ton of help on this site, just ask!

Matt

Popriv

[/quote]
That's your best bet. Sounds like it needs a lot of simple things. It will be much easier for them to show you than for us to tell you.
[/quote]


Thats what I thought. The LHS wants to push me into a RTF kit with radio included. seems to lose interest when he sees he's not making an immediate sale. I'll show him what I've got and if he doesnt cooperate I'll try a different LHS!


I'll look up the DX6 and DX6i I wasnt aware of the two!

Thanks for the info..

Steve

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

rctrax

Steve I am also trying to finish up an old partialy built model[Pitts special] that was started in 1974. All the plans and instructions are long since been lost.However since it is scratch built and I can work from all my stuf colected over the years I will probably make out all right.Most of those RTF models come with simple entry level radios and are all rifgt as far as they go but will fall short down the line when you want to upgrade. Then you will be looking for another radio.They're mostly name brand radios and are good as far as they go.For the rest of the build it is just a matter of aquiring all the parts you need including the engine which is the same as what you would be doing with any current kit build. The radio gear needed will generaly be included in the radio package you buy

carrellh

Since you have an airframe well underway, finishing it could be a lot of fun. If you do utilize the hobby shop's time and knowledge, please do not hose them and buy everything online to save a few bucks.

When my brother wanted his first computer radio, we didn't know anything about them. What do the features actually do? How do you do certain programming? One of the guys at Mike's got multiple models from Futaba, Hitec, and JR out of the case and showed us a lot about all of them. When the decision was made the LHS was about $40 higher than online and we have 8.25% sales tax on top of that. But, the patience and expertise we got was well worth the difference.


One thing to point out on radios. If the RTF models the hobby shop has are 40 & 60 size trainers from Hangar 9, Hobbico, SIG, or Thunder Tiger; there is nothing questionable about the quality of the included radio systems. They are perfectly good, simple, 72 mhz systems that will last many years, or until FCC takes away the 72 mhz band and we're all forced to go to something else.

There is nothing wrong with having one transmitter dedicated to your trainer and getting a whiz-bang super radio for subsequent models. You can get a perfectly good radio system for your trainer for about $120 and worry about 'super radio' for the next one.

Jburry

Go for it, finishing old planes is really the best part of this hobby to me. 2 of my 4 planes are vintage virgins, and I rebuilt them both. The first was an AAMCO S-ray (kit bash) that a friend built 20 years ago (the kit is actually 40 years old), a 50" 3channel 25 size trainer, and the other a Dynaflite Fun Scale Mustang 40, another 50" er.

Your trainer would likely do OK with a strong 25 size up to a lightweight 40 size engine. I'd suggest something like a strong .25-.35 or a bushing .40 size like the LA40 or one of its equals. Light weight is key in a plane this size, and being a trainer, blistering speed and power aren't the goal. It'll be plenty fast!

Here're some before and afters of the rehab projects I've done. Neither had flown in their former configurations. They're both excellent craft now.

J

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Carrellh,
Was that Mike's Superstore over in Carrolton???

Ken

Popriv

Here're some before and afters of the rehab projects I've done. Neither had flown in their former configurations. They're both excellent craft now.

Your 1st plane, the trainer, looks very much like the one I want to finish. what size was yours? mine has 52" wingspan.

Steve

Popriv

There is nothing wrong with having one transmitter dedicated to your trainer and getting a whiz-bang super radio for subsequent models. You can get a perfectly good radio system for your trainer for about $120 and worry about 'super radio' for the next one.
[/quote]

I liked the hanger 9 Alpha 40 for $299 but it wont be in till june. I can get it online but I would like to give the local guys some business.
I DONT KNOW HOW THEY COMPETE WITH THE INTERNET.

Good to know your thoughts on the package. Depending on how the trip to the LHS goes I may still go that route.

Steve

Popriv

I found it!

They still sell it! a midwest aerostar.

Now if I can get a copy of the instructions?


Steve

Jburry

It is a 50" span, powered by an LA25 (the old magnum in that photo was abandonned due to unreliability). AUW is about 3 pounds, IIRC, the extremely short nose required alot of lead to balance. Your aerostar has a much longer nose, and it should balance much closer.

Looks like the aerostar is intended for a 2 stroke 32-45, or a 4 stroke 40-56. You'd be well advised to aim for the top end of the recommended engine sizes (say a 2 stroke 40-46 or a 4 stroke 56). That will give you plenty of power. Looks like your wingspan is actually 62" (you said 52, was that a typo, or is this actually a smaller version, suitable for 25-36 size engine?)

J

Popriv

My wingspan is 52". it is smaller than the plane in the picture I posted.
Midwest still has the instructions for $13.
I think its a .20 size plane? what size engine for this?

I think getting this going as a trainer makes sense, instead of purchaseing the hanger 9 alpha 40 complete kit.
But on 2nd though, the 40 would be a more popular engine size?
when/if I total the 20 size plane I would have to put the engine on a smaller 20 size plane?

My thinking is to buy a spectrim dx6i and I can use that for all future planes / helicopters.
I now have two obsolete futaba transmitters and I like the idea of one TX fof all planes?

Or I could go out and grab the T-28 trojan electric foamy with everything included for $220 to fly while I finish the gas powered aerostar I have. Then I would need to also by the Spectrim DX6i.

If I succed on the electric trojen, would going to the gas trainer be a step backwards.

Also is the 20 size a limiting factor as far as gas engines go should I go with the 40?

So may questions as I try to decide what way to go, I'm getting closer though.

Sorry to ramble on....


Thanks for you guidance. Everyone has been a big help getting me back up to speed with the new tech.


TIA

Steve

carrellh

Yes it was. They are a good bunch. They have less airplane stuff than they used to but they have really good prices on fuel, and they still keep a good selection of props, engines, and radio equipment.

carrellh

In the '20 size' group of engines you have several choices that share the same mounting pattern and are similar in overall size
Magnum XL28
Magnum XLS36
OS 25LA
OS 25FX
Super Tigre G-34
Thunder Tiger GP28
Thunder Tiger Pro 36

There are others but these were easy to find, and in stock, at Hobby People and Tower Hobbies.
If you can pick one up locally that's even better.

I have an OS 25FX, new in box, that is waiting for a plane. My brother has a Magnum XLS36 and it is a very nice running engine.

Jburry

Popriv,

If it's a 52" trainer, then that's well in the .20 size range. I'd consider any engine from .25 to .35 viable for it. From there, it's up to you to decide what you'd like.

That little blue trainer I pic'ed above is flying nicely on an OS 25LA. A very sedate and well mannered little engine, it's stood up to all the whipping I've dished out to it. Certainly not a powerhouse, it is a respectable performer so long as you let it rev a bit. I found a 9x4 prop to be best on it. Spun at about 13.3K rpm, when tuned 300rpm off peak, and pulled her with authority. I'm running a 9x5 now, at about 12.8Krpm, doesn't have the same climb rate or short take-off, but it's a touch quicker in the air, which I was looking for. It's also a very inexpensive engine, and cheap to run. I get up to 10 minutes on 4 oz of fuel, but keep flights to 8 or so to avoid deadsticks.

There are many other great engines in this size range by OS, Supertigre, Thundertigre, Magnum, GWS, Tower and others. Bushing engines (like the 25LA) won't make the same power as the ball bearing engines, but they're much cheaper (in general) and lighter.

The only drawback to a 25 size trainer is that they're smaller. That means they can be a bit tougher to see, especially for a newbe, who tends to fly further away (usually unintentionally). I didn't have any difficulty with that, but it's the concern many will voice. Be sure that you apply a color scheme that allows you to tell top from bottom easily, at 400' or more. I like dayglow highlights underneath, or some other large, bold markings. You probably know this from your glider days.

A glow trainer probably would not seem like a step back from a 'leccy like the T28 trojan. I have no experience with that plane, beyond the adds here and in the magazines, but flying a glow plane just "feels" different to me. I've flown a few of a friend's little electric sport planes (all much more capable than the Trojan), and I just didn't feel the same magic. I am in this hobby primarily as an excuse to run beautiful little engines, though, so I'm biased.

When you complete this plane, I hope you'll find a club and instructor to help you out. Your old experience with gliders and such will definately be an asset, but there's a learning curve and it involves more than just the flying. A few flights (more or less) training on the buddy box will have you sorted and soloing in short order. I've managed to learn to fly RC (3rd season starting now) without putting a plane in, a testament to my instructors and my willingness to listen to them.

I'm not gonna comment on the radio gear, but whatever way you go there will serve you well. Standard size servos work well in a plane this size, I'm fond of the Futaba 3004's. Cheap and tough.

You've gotta post some photos of what you've got there, and show us how your build goes. I'll be looking forward to it!

J

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Carrell,
I haven't made it down there in about a year, but that's a good thing. Mike's is a five hundred store!!!! It costs me five hundred bucks every time I walk in there!!!!!

I try to get down there once a year if I can so that I can stock up on fuel. Best prices I've seen.

Ken

Popriv

You've gotta post some photos of what you've got there, and show us how your build goes. I'll be looking forward to it!

J
[/quote]

Thanks for the encouragment!

I found a club with a flying feild thats on my way home from work!
I've stopped by and met some of the guys, seen a few crashes! got alot of advice.
Lazy loopers in foxboro MA
I just joined the AMA this week.
I found two LHS to patronize.
My two girls have grown and left the nest so Its a good time to get back into this.
I built this Aero star when the girls were babys.

Current plan is to finish this plane and buy a Spectrum DX6i TX. Then as I build my collection I can just add receivers.
A couple of weeks ago I bought a coaxle helicoptor. A E sky Lama V4, for indoor flying.
So I'm getting my flying fix playing with that right now.
I'll also want to get a new reciever for my 20 year old Segata Sailplane.
I dont know if Ill be able to reuse my old futaba servos with the new spectrem receiver?
Then I have intrest in larger 60 engine plane and a small electric park flyer... But I think I'm getting ahead of myself :-)

Here are some pics...

Steve

Jburry

Nice looking little plane, Steve, that should do the job well. Fudging up elevators and ailerons shouldn't present any difficulty at all. Be sure to fuelproof the firewall with some epoxy or fuel proof paint.

Other than that, looks like you'll need to fabricate a servo tray (not much trouble), or maybe you can simply install a rail on each side of the fuse, with servos running crosswise. I set my mustang up that way, worked very well. Actually, is that what that piece of wood in the bottom of the fuse is for? Can't quite tell from here....

Then a fuel tank (wrapped in foam), a receiver and battery (both in foam), and a few pushrods, and you're flying. A couple evenings to a week of evenings work, depending on how handy you are.

Looks like a fun little ship, should serve you well. The covering job has withstood the 20 years very well! Ya see more wrinkles on the average ARF.

That's great that you found a club on your way home. Flying means an extra 30km on my ODO for each trip, if I leave from the office. almost 70km round trip from home.

Your old servos should work with your new receiver. Futaba puts a little key on one side of their plug that typically will have to be clipped off for it to physically fit the new receiver, but other than that it's the same. I'm assuming you've got something like S148, S131's or something of that vintage (late '80's...). Just be sure they work well before you fly them. Hook up the radio, and use your fingers to resist their travel as you work the sticks. Should repond strongly, smoothly, and centre well. I just put 6 of this vintage in a plane, and they all worked just fine. They'd been in storage since '89.

Good luck,

J

Popriv

Hey J,

LHS guy was pretty good between customers. threw in an old roll of supercoat covering and some scraps of plywood to make servo tray.
He didnt have the spectrum DX6i TX that I want so I'll get that at the other LHS. You know, spread it around. Could probably do better online but I hate to not buy anything local.

As you can see I've been busy. added a thunder tiger 9130 PRO-36 Engine, dont know much about it, think its ball bearing?
I hope its not to big for this plane? I had to file the existing motor mount slightly to get it to seat all the way down on the mount.
( filed it wider, I didnt touch the flat top surface).
looks like I have to drill the mounts? Should I tap it or are bolts good enough?
Do you use any kind of lock tight?

got 2 plastic 10X5 props.

A 6 ounce flex tank. how long should the brass tube extend out the front of the tank?

So I'll attach fuel line to the brass tubes, do I need some kind of clamp? The fuel tank had thin wire I wrapped around the hose and weight.
Wrap the tank in foam and as I push it into the plane I feed the hose through the fire wall right behind the engine? Note in my pic that there is not much room between the firewall and the back of the engine. with the engine all the way forward as in the picture, there is 1/4" of clearance for the hoses to come through. Is that normal? Should the engine mount farther back and not out at the end of the mount? I'll take a closer look next time I'm at the field.
Do you ever remove your tank for any reason?


Thats great if I can use my old servos. LHS had some for $9 each, I dont know what they go for now.
The spectum TX doesnt come with servos.

Steve

Jburry

Hey Steve,

You have been busy. I've got no experience with thundertiger engines, but they've got a great reputation. Looks like a bb engine to me. It should fly the heck outta the little plane.

For now, don't drill the engine mount, you can leave that for the end. That way, you can slide the engine fore or aft a bit if you need to to get the CG as close as possible without adding weight.

Typically we drill and tap the engine mount for 4-40 screws. Some use those self tapping screws as an alternative. Mounts like that one with sloped bottoms on the arms don't work well with nuts, unless you file flat spots on the bottom of it. Having to file a mm or so inside the mount arms is fairly common in my experience.

****got 2 plastic 10X5 props. ****

Good start... You may need more!

****A 6 ounce flex tank. how long should the brass tube extend out the front of the tank? ****

a half inch would be about minimum, if it's going straight. You don't have to take the fuel lines out thru the firewall unless you want to. I like to run mine thru the top or side of the fuse and loop them to the engine. Makes them easier to access for fueling. Then you need about 1 or 1.5" of brass outside the fuel tank, bent (careful not to kink) 90 degrees in the direction you want'em to go. Use wire ties inside the tank to keep the clunk and clunk line on, outside the tank it's optional so long as the tube goes over the brass at least, say, 1/2" or so.

****Do you ever remove your tank for any reason? ****

Not often. Only if I'm having an engine problem I can't figure out. Sometimes it's actually a tank problem, or a tiny hole in the clunk line. Only one of my planes has required the tank out in 3 years. Do plan to be able to remove it, though, 'cause otherwise you will need to. Murphy's watching.

$9 servos must have been little mini's or micros, were they? Most standard size cost 15 bucks or more, but hey, ya never know. You've got a small plane there that could be flown with most mini's or a strong micro, but standard size ones will stand up to a bit of abuse better. I'd want atleast 35 in-oz in any new servos I bought for a plane that size.

Well, you've got a great start going there. Did you pick up some aileron and flat balsa stock to make your ailerons and elevator with? How'bout your nose gear?

Have fun buildin'!

J

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

That is a Dave Brown mount and all DB's come packaged with the appropriate size sheet metal screws and notes the proper size pilot drill to use. Its a good reliable system and no locktite is not required or desirable. Its an excellent mount with a lot of advantages as well as an excellent mounting system, give the system a chance by using it the way it was intended.

The mount you have is probably the 3035 or the 4045 at any rate both use #4 X 5/8ths sheet metal screws and the proper pilot drill size is 3/32.

John

Popriv

The mount you have is probably the 3035 or the 4045 at any rate both use #4 X 5/8ths sheet metal screws and the proper pilot drill size is 3/32.

John
[/quote]

Do I have to tap first or just screw into the pilot holes?


Thanks

Steve

carrellh

Sheet metal screws are very coarse thread. They cut their own threads when you install them.