AstroDad

my buddy converted his trainer to a tail dragger once he had to repair the nose wheel about 10-times he wanted a simpler more reliable set-up.

to keep it really simple his tail wheel was in a fixed position so he really could not taxi, but it works just fine for takeoff and landing.

BigHog

My Feedback: (1)

Is there a good thread, or web site that already discusses the conversion? When the conversion is made, are most tail wheels fixed or steerable? I would like to do the conversion as I have four trainer planes, but want a steerable solution.

capo915

I dont know about all of you that are saying tail draggers are easier, but IMHO I dont trust anyone who learns on the tail dragger. We have some members that scare the !@#$ out of us when they cannot control there takeoffs and buzz the hangar almost everytime. The problem with tail draggers is they dont require as much input in rudder control as the trike so you can "oversteer" very easily and then over correct to some messy results. One member thought to learn tail draggers with a Piper Cub. He has 350 parts telling him he was wrong and he actually had a gyro to help. Tail draggers are a third plane accessory.

capo915

Really shouldnt do this. Why not take the plane off like in a pylon race and forego taking off altogether? The reason your friend repaired the front wheel is because hes landing too hard and probably should be practicing more than just making a switch. You can crack your fuselage with hard landings on tail draggers.

flyX

Tell me why a tail drager is hard ?

Maybe a real aircraft because of the pilot can't see very good during taxi.

It's only the enigne's torque. You won't have the same problem with an electric model.

The nose wheel on a trainer isn't exaclty precision and most noobies don't even bother
putting an extra wheel collar on the oposite side to prevent slop. And most people don't
even have it set up correlty to the rudder. And most noobies don't even bother puting
a little notch on the nose wheel to prevent the control arm linkage from slipping.
Becuae you gotta have a drimel.lol

You don't need a steerable wheel. All you need is a skid.

All you have to do is drill a hole through the center of the on pice elevator on trinners .
Then add a little sheet if thin ply if you're afraid it's going to break..

Then drill little groove on the bottom of the rudder. That's how it's done on a lot of kits.
You can use anytype of plastic cylinder retainer , such as the fuel line and just epoxy it.
Or use the little linkage ear thing ...the part that screws onto the airlerons rods at the center of wing.
It has a little tap that you can make a slot for ..on the bottom of rudder.

Or you can just wrap a little sheet of fiber glass on the bottom and just CA it. Than sand it a little bit
than put covering over it.

Just get the dubro trail mount asemybly for $2..This way there's a won't be presure to the rudder.
The wheel collar hit's the mount instead.

It's not that difficult. , you just have to mount it in the proper sequence.
mmm...Just make 90 deg bend on the music wire first.lol

brenthampton79

Well the reason taildraggers are harder to fly is because of the location of the center of gravity. On a trike the center of gravity is ahead of the main gear. which means the weight wants to pull the plane straight if you will and also when you are landing which should be on the mains first and you have some sink rate as the mains touch the ground wants to pull the nose down which kills the lift and stops some of the bouncing, However you can have it bounce due the type of gear I know.

On a taildragger the center of gravity is behind the main gear which means if you have some sink rate when the mains touch and your not in the three point attitude then the nose will pitch up due to the location of the center of gravity of the weight then causes the plane to attempt to fly again
as for the squirliness on take-off and landing the gear being ahead of the center of gravity makes the plane's tale want to pass the front of the plane just as on your car if you had only front brakes the car would want to swap ends on you.

for those that land with the trikes with all three wheels at the same time you are probably landing to fast or don't have the proper set up

as to the original part of the question why do it? I beleive its for the challenge of understanding another part of flight and being able to challenge your landing skills.
Brent
P.S. if you have more questions let me know

also fyi electric prop plane will have the same effects as a gas of the same power output, torque and P-facter will be same whether its an electric motor or nitro driving the prop, the only way to get rid of these two forces is a jet or ducted fan.

Indy Park Flyer

I converted my CMP Tiger II knock-off to a tail dragger for a few reasons. First, I like the way a tail dragger handles on the ground, especially when there is a cross wind. The tail dragger is easier to turn and can make sharper turns. In a cross wind you don't have to worry about turning with the wind, you just turn in the direction you need to go. I also want to get into WWII warbirds. My goal is to be flying a p-51 mustang in the next few years. Since the mustang is a tail dragger, I wanted to be comfortable with this landing gear configuration. I've only been doing this hobby for a couple of years, and this is only my second real plane. I had a Pulse XT for a few flights after I soloed my Alpha 40, but I totaled it due to pilot error, I was too fast into a turn and it got away from me. For me, I don't see a difference in flight characteristics, or landing between my tricycle gear trainer and either the Pulse XT or the new plane. All three were very stable in the air, and very easy to land. The one piece of advise I would give on a tail dragger is to make sure you do not have a castoriing tail wheel. It is harder to control a tail dragger with a castoring tail wheel, especially on take off. My new plane uses a Sullivan tail wheel with the stiffest wire it comes with. I have no problems going straight down the runway, with minor adjustments, on take offs, or taxiing back to the pits on landing. If you have thought about converting a plane to a tail dragger, I say give it a try, if you don't like it you can always change the landing gear back to a tricycle.
Indy Park Flyer

Hangar:

Hangar 9 Alpha 40
Texas RC Planes Explorer L
Hangar 9 Pulse XT ( Deceased)

flyX

The torque factor is from the engine turning clockwise if you're standing behind it.
The model pops back in the air due to wing buffering , the cussion of air between the wing and the ground during landing attemps.
It is more noticable on a low wing models of course.


A bad habit to develope with a trigear trainer is to push down on the elevator right after touch down to prevent the model from flying again
becuase you came in too hot. You can get away with it on a pave or smooth runway, but on dirt or grass you're helping the nose dig even more.
Or you came so hot, it smacked the ground and pop back up again That's okay everyone has to learn how to flair sometimes or somehow.
Or you pulled too much by increasing the AOA, so the model will just drop, then smack, then pop back up.lol
If you push on the elevator after touch down on a trial dragger...you must have purchased a collection of props and enjoy the art of repairing
your vertical stab

A tail drager is almost in a prefect 3 piont laning posistion, depending how high you install the tail wheel.
A good instructor will have instructed you to alway trim the model slighty nose down for landing procedures.
You increase the aoa slightly to slow the model down, then flair, then stall it for touch down.

A tri is not in a 3 piont landing posistion , due to simple fact the you must stall the wing or AOA of the wing.
Unless of course you think you're on an aircraft carrier doing a harrier.lol They have cables and hooks to stop the aircrafts though.
Plus nice shock abosbing landing gears.

B.L.E.

The location of the landing gear in that picture of the converted LT-40 is a good rule of thumb, right at the leading edge of the wing. Move it farther forward and it will never nose over but will ground loop more easily. Move it farther back and it will be less likely to ground loop but will nose over if you don't land just perfectly or even if you give it too much power on takeoff before you have enough airspeed for the elevator to become effective.

I also find that the soft spongy "lite" wheels make gound handling less squirrelly. Their high rolling resistance couples with the plane's natural tendency to transfer its weight to the wheel outside the turn to act like automatic wheel brakes that fight the turn, a stabilizing form of feedback.

capo915

"A tail drager is almost in a prefect 3 piont laning posistion, depending how high you install the tail wheel."



P-51 and warbirds in general would disagree with you!

flyX

well ...come it hot and don't try to land or fly a mustange like a trainer.
A mustange you must fly..a trainer will land itself.
That's why most noobies don't really land thier models. They just guide it in.lol

Have the trim set slighty nose down, so you won't stall too soon or apply too much AOA.
mmm ..when the it's going towards the earth..it's gaining speed. Speed is your friend sometimes.

The model dosn't know if it's 1' off the deck or 500'..it's all in your head.
You move sticks differnt just becuase it's only 1' off the deck.
A good instructer will make you fly the model around slightly above stall speed before you earn your wings.

Adui

Well, I didn't convert my trainer to a tail dragger, but I did replace those flimsy wires with a real main gear strut! Dubro nylon (?) main gear. I've had the strut for over a month and just procrastinated putting it on because I was too lazy to do the disassembly required to add the reinforcing block in the fuse. (That and I been workin' on my SPAD )

I finally ran out of things to do to the SPAD until I get my servos. So I did the work, a few days ago to add the new main gear to the Arrow.

I had to add DOWN elevator to the trim, only a very small amount. I expected the drag to cause it to need up elevator...

Anyhow, bottom line I wish I'd done this to my plane before I ever soloed! My wire gear would flex on the best landing making ground control for touch and go's next to impossible. My first landing with the new strut, I came in a bit low and tried to extend the glide without power. Well the glide extended but i bled off enough airspeed that when it was finally time to let her down she stalled. Being it was only a foot or two off the ground meant that it was just a hard landing. BUT!!! That hard landing would have meant bringing it in for gear re bend. The new strut took the force without so much as a bounce, and powered right up for a perfect line down the runway liftoff and my best touch and go ever!!

NICE!!

As for the tail dragger question. Ive read enough to decide that my SPADStick Im going to build next will be a tail dragger!!! The kids Debonair will remain a tricycle build for now, since it is a trainer.

Allfat

My Feedback: (1)

I have thought about doing this to a plane I have, but I have one question. What would happen if I just put a skid on the rear of the plane? Would it still be steerable if I just power up the engine and use rudder to bring the tail around? Or would I be better off to put in a steerable tail wheel? BTW, this is on a 60 size Stik. I have been having problems with the front gear and staying straight. It wants to bend sometimes when taxiing and sometimes when landing. When landing, it makes the plane nose over and bend the gear. I have tried to bend a couple of them back, but went and bought a couple of new front gears at my hobby shop to replace them. It seems like this would be a fix for this problem, take the front gear out of the system entirely. And it will give me some good tail dragger practice to get me ready for my 4* that I have on the build table.

YUKONFLYR

Steerable tail wheel is much better. Skids dig in and cause issues. a thin teflon pad might work, but installing a tailwheel is nothing, just need a flex cable back to the rudder servo, or even linkage from the rudder to the tailwheel.

If you are really lucky and the bottom of the rudder lines up with the fuse, then you can install like a Sig Something extra, mount the tailwheel and then use a piece of clear plastic tubing glued to the bottom of the rudder, the arm from the tailwheel or tailwheel lever goes in the tube for a real clean tail wheel install

Good Luck

Richard