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Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...

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Old 06-24-2008, 10:33 PM
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Default Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...

I know this has been posted a bunch of times, but I can't find the posts.

I'm getting a plane with a cowl and need to know how to set it up for fueling. The website suggests the Great Planes Easy Fueler Valve http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&P=8&I=LXK135

I know there have been other suggestions. What do you guys recommend? Also, I guess fueling until fuel runs out the muffler is a debatable way to fill, so what do you recommend for that as well?

I know you guys have some great graphics to explain this stuff; I hope you don't mind posting them again.

Thanks!

The big fat (well not anymore) orange kat that is stupidly addicted to pretty little flying toys,

GaRCfield
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Old 06-24-2008, 10:41 PM
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Default RE: Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...

I don't like the valves like the one in your link. They end up leaking fuel and/or sucking air. Neither is good. I prefer something like these:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXAHE1&P=0

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...?ProdID=HAN115

Basically they plug the fill line and push into the cowl. You pull them out to fill up. It's clean and simple. I would not recommend the T fitting in the second example. It is more trouble than it's worth. Just use a 3'rd line as your fill line. The Dubro set up comes with everything you need for the 3rd line.

Another option is to just leave a 3rd line hanging out the bottom of the cowl and use a plug like this: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXK138&P=0

What plane are you going to put it in?
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Old 06-24-2008, 10:47 PM
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Default RE: Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...

Phoenix Super Decathlon

I'm excited, can't you tell? I'VE BEEN WAITING 20 YEARS TO FLY A SCALE RC PLANE!!!!! Isn't it beautiful?



*This is not my pic. I did a Google Image search for the plane and found it. I take no credit.
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Old 06-24-2008, 10:54 PM
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Default RE: Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...

Chuck, I appreciate the link and it sounds great, but I am having a hard time visualizing how it works (the first link) - Do I install a 3rd line as if there was no cowl, and just run that line to this piece? I'm assuming this is a way to extend the third line through the cowl, and includes a plug, correct?

Thanks.

Oh, does the metal tube get used for the third line through the bung, fuel line from the metal tube to the silver piece, which mounts inside the black flange in the cowl, and the black plugs go from outside the cowl, through the adapter, and plug the line on the inside???
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Old 06-24-2008, 10:57 PM
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Default RE: Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...


Quote:
ORIGINAL: gaRCfield

Chuck, I appreciate the link and it sounds great, but I am having a hard time visualizing how it works (the first link) - Do I install a 3rd line as if there was no cowl, and just run that line to this piece? I'm assuming this is a way to extend the third line through the cowl, and includes a plug, correct?

Thanks.


Do these help any??

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Old 06-24-2008, 11:00 PM
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Default RE: Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...

See, this is the stuff I was talking about!

Yes Ken, it helps a ton. Thank you. What wonderful software.

That's my new engine, too
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Old 06-24-2008, 11:02 PM
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Default RE: Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...

I know Opjose has a different method which I'm curious about as well. I think the above mentioned is a cleaner look though.
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Old 06-24-2008, 11:05 PM
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Default RE: Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...

Those pictures say it all. One thing I would recommend on the 3'rd line is to run it just like the last two pictures except add a clunk.. That keeps the line at the bottom-rear of the tank and makes draining the tank a lot easier at the end of the day.

Which Decathalon did you get? This may not be a bad choice. Just remember that just because it has a high wing, doesn't mean it isn't aerobatic and can't get into trouble. I've seen a few of these fly and I kind of like them.

I kind of have the new plane bug myself. Great Planes is replacing my Cherokee and I plan on putting the OS .56-a in it instead of the .46-AX from the first one. My garage is too stinking hot to sit out there and build anything right now so I'm leaning toward a new ARF. Just can't decide what. I have a new Parkzone Corsair on backorder but that's electric so it doesn't really count.
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Old 06-24-2008, 11:06 PM
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Default RE: Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...

Oh so how do you know when it's full? Let fuel spill out muffler?
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Old 06-24-2008, 11:13 PM
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Default RE: Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...


Quote:
ORIGINAL: gaRCfield

Oh so how do you know when it's full? Let fuel spill out muffler?
Depends on the setup... If you can get to the pressure line on the muffler, pull it off and watch for fuel coming out. another option is to run the pressure line in a loop below the muffler and use a T. The short hose coming off of the T will be lower than the muffler so you'll see fuel run out of there first. Just put a plug in that short line.

When using a Pitt's muffler I often just put a cup under it and fill it until it runs out.
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Old 06-24-2008, 11:57 PM
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Default RE: Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...

Quote:
I have a new Parkzone Corsair on backorder but that's electric so it doesn't really count.
*laughing...
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:07 AM
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Default RE: Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...

The simplest way I know of is to stand the plane on it's nose and fill it through the muffler pressure line until fuel runs out the carb. With the carb lower than the crankcase, you will almost have to try to flood the engine. Using a syringe takes the guess work out of how much fuel is going in. The best part about this method is it is simple, fool proof and doesn't add to the list of possible trouble points in the system.
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Old 06-25-2008, 02:39 AM
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Default RE: Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...

I have used the fill valves for many years with no problems. I have also used the fuel dots. Each have there merrits.

Cheers
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Old 06-25-2008, 08:59 AM
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Default RE: Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...

gaRCfield, That is a fantastic airplane, but be careful, it can bite you.

It is really a more advanced plane than it looks. This is one of the reasons many people have had problems with them. They LOOK like a nice sporty plane, but they are aerobatic dynamos.

What makes it so aerobatic is that it has a very short tail moment (Distance between wing and tail) This makes it very quick to respond to things like snap rolls - unfortunately, it also makes the plane easy to snap when you DON'T want it to. To prevent this, you need to keep the speed up. Get some good speed before you take off or it can torque roll on you

Look at it this way... In the full-scale world, there are no private pilots who own a Decathlon for traveling from point "A" to point "B". Anyone who owns one uses it for Air Shows - Or just because they like doing aerobatics.

Note: A Decathlon is a Citabria with a bigger engine. Do you know where they got the name Citabria ? It's "Airbatic" spelled backward.
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Old 06-25-2008, 09:26 AM
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Default RE: Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...

Another good option, without any valves that can cause leaks in your lines:

[link]http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0095P?FVSEARCH=S750[/link]

Alex
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Old 06-25-2008, 10:22 AM
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Default RE: Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...


Quote:
ORIGINAL: MinnFlyer

gaRCfield, That is a fantastic airplane, but be careful, it can bite you.

It is really a more advanced plane than it looks. This is one of the reasons many people have had problems with them. They LOOK like a nice sporty plane, but they are aerobatic dynamos.

What makes it so aerobatic is that it has a very short tail moment (Distance between wing and tail) This makes it very quick to respond to things like snap rolls - unfortunately, it also makes the plane easy to snap when you DON'T want it to. To prevent this, you need to keep the speed up. Get some good speed before you take off or it can torque roll on you

Look at it this way... In the full-scale world, there are no private pilots who own a Decathlon for traveling from point "A" to point "B". Anyone who owns one uses it for Air Shows - Or just because they like doing aerobatics.

Note: A Decathlon is a Citabria with a bigger engine. Do you know where they got the name Citabria ? It's "Airbatic" spelled backward.
Interesting. I did read that it is much more sporty than a Cub. I talked to the guys who trained me at my club, and they weren't happy about me getting a flat bottomed wing pane (the Cub). They said I'd be much better off with this plane (Decathlon). Since I have my Dolphin in good flying condition, I plan on taking my time assembling the Decathlon. I think I will be good and ready for it by the time it's ready to fly. I definitely appreciate the head's up on the flight characteristics. My plan is to use the 55AX in this plane with a 13x5 prop to try to keep the speed down a little but still keep plenty of air moving around the plane.
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Old 06-25-2008, 10:28 AM
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Default RE: Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...

gaRCField,
Please do not let the high wing of this plane fool you into thinking it's docile like a trainer or a cub. In full scale the Decathlons are ADVANCED aerobatic trainers. What that means is they use this plane to TEACH guys to do all those fancy advanced aerobatics you see at airshows. This plane can and will do just about anything. If you underestimate it just because it's got a high wing you'll wind up taking it home in a trashbag. Many people think this thing will fly low and slow because it "looks" like a Cub, and they get burned for it. Ask Minnflyer to tell you the story about his dad flying his Decathlon. I'll leave the details for Mike, but the last line of the story reads that the plane comes home in a trash bag.

You especially don't want to "slow" this plane down as you said above. That's what happened to Minnflyer's dad.

Ken
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Old 06-25-2008, 10:44 AM
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Default RE: Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...

I'll just tell ONE of the stories - between my dad and brother (Who are both excellent fliers) they crashed several of my Decathlons [:@]

But the last one was the most classic - My dad insists that every high-wing plane should fly like a Cub. After several decathlon crashes due to trying to fly it like a Cub, I had eventually given it to him cause it had been repaired so many times. The last time it flew, he was coming in for a landing - floating it in as nicely as can be.

He said, "look, just like a Cub".

I said, "It's NOT a Cub!"

He settled her in, then zipped up the throttle to go around again and the plane promptly lifted off and torque-rolled back into the runway.
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Old 06-25-2008, 10:53 AM
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Default RE: Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...

Ok. I will be ready for it. Really, I will

I had a pretty long talk with my instructor, determining which plane would be right for me. He said I am already at the intermediate stage, quickly moving into an advanced pilot. We looked at wing loadings, size, airfoil shape, etc. of a few different planes, and decided that this was a good plane for me for the level I am at right now, not to mention the level I will be at in the 3 or 4 weeks it will be before this plane is ready to fly, and I have burned another 2 or 3 gallons of fuel in my Dolphin. My flying has changed A LOT since my careless crashes, and I am constantly working on things to improve my flying, in all conditions, and at all speeds. I will not use the slower props I mentioned; thanks for that advice. I will give all this a little more consideration before I actually buy the plane, but I do think it might be the right choice for me. I know I was talking about having a 'lazy flier' but I am quickly finding that my Dolphin is indeed a lazy flier! It's amazing what a few little tricks in your technique can do! Speaking of which, I gotta take an exam so I can get to the field for training night!

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Old 06-25-2008, 10:59 AM
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Default RE: Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...

I set mine up with A fuel dot and use A clunk like Chuck said. I can hear the the tank getting full on all of my planes just before the fuel comes out the muffler. If I can get to my pressure line I pull the line and plug in A catch can so I don't waste fuel or leave A nasty mess behind. On my engines with A pump I just catch the over flow at the breather line.
I think the Decathlon is one of my all time number one planes, at least in the high wings. When I was still living up in the hills of Calif. I took my eyes off mine for just A couple of seconds, by the time I found it again it was spinning right through the oak trees along the side of the hill next to the field. The wing was still in A tree and the fuse left A trail of stuff for about 20 feet along the side of the mountain.
I sure liked that pane!!![] I am thinking about building another one for A gasser I have needing A home.
Chuck, our temps have been about the same as yours, maybe just A yaste cooler. This week it has been in the mid to high 90s.
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Old 06-25-2008, 11:59 AM
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Default RE: Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...

Hmm. Tonight's training night, and I'll talk about it again with the instructors at the field, and see what they think.

thanks for the warnings.
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:03 PM
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Default RE: Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...


Quote:
ORIGINAL: gaRCfield

Hmm. Tonight's training night, and I'll talk about it again with the instructors at the field, and see what they think.

thanks for the warnings.
gaRCfield
I sure have to admire you. You say you have been flying only a month or two and you are approaching the advance stage. Sure wish I could learn that fast. Seems like it has taken me a long time. But I'm older and my thumbs don't work so fast.
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:09 PM
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Default RE: Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...

On good weather weeks I fly 4 days a week, sometimes twice a day! I spend lots of time on this site sucking up all the information I can, then really try to put it into practice. I ask a lot of questions, and I imagine some of them might seem basic to more advanced pilots, but understanding little basic components of things really helps me to understand what's going on in the air. I used the sim a bit before I started flying, though haven't touched it since I put a real plane in the air.

I'm a mechanical engineering major too, and have a decent understanding of mechanics, aerodynamics, etc., so flying just makes a lot of sense to me. I hope to end up in the aerospace industry.

There are a few other guys who started when I did, and I definitely have advanced a lot faster than they have (not criticizing by any means, I think I just have more time and more of a drive to excel at this).
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:19 PM
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Default RE: Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...

Anyway,

I know theres' a way to install a filler or some kind of line where the fuel tube comes out of the cowl then goes back in, which can allow you to do a pinch test or see if there are air bubbles in the line...does anyone have a pic or a link to this (Opjose)?

I'm starting to thing that the Decathlon is the next plane in the chain for me, and if I take my time with assembly and get a bunch of flying in with my Dolphin I should be in good shape
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Old 06-25-2008, 12:40 PM
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Default RE: Fuel valves, fillers, and dots for cowls...


Quote:
ORIGINAL: gaRCfield

Anyway,

I know theres' a way to install a filler or some kind of line where the fuel tube comes out of the cowl then goes back in, which can allow you to do a pinch test or see if there are air bubbles in the line...does anyone have a pic or a link to this (Opjose)?
This is pretty simple. Just drill two holes in the cowl and run your fill line out one hole and back in the other. Cut the line outside of the cowl and use a piece of brass tubing to join the two lines back together for running the plane.

Ken
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