Allfat

My Feedback: (1)

When I started I bought a used plane with a pretty old engine in it. That thing was a bear to tune and was fairly unreliable, so needless to say I had plenty of deadstick landing practice. One time, I was practicing stalling the plane to learn how it reacts, and it quit right as it stalled. I was pretty high, but too far away to bring her back to the runway, so I put it down out in the field. Kept everything level and despite a fairly hard landing, all I had to do was rubber band the landing gear back on and I was flying again.

Another one happened and I decided to try to make it to the runway, and I made a couple of stupid moves and had to do a pretty tight turn on the final leg. Well, lets just say that I was about 1 foot high enough to avoid disaster. That really got my heart pumping and my knees knocking. But the landing made it to the runway and was nice and smooth.

By the way, I put a new OS engine in that plane and have had no problems since.

hogflyer

Deadstick landings are definitely part of this hobby. The best way to get comfortable with them is to practice them. On a calm day (5 – 10 mph winds) go up high over the runway, kill the engine, and then learn the glide characteristics of your plane.

Last night I was flying a buddies Tower Kaos when the engine quite (overheated from bad bearings while on a vertical upline). No problem other than the 22 mph wind I was flying in . It was strong enough that it kept the tail from coming around while gliding downwind (I couldn’t turn the plane around) [X(][X(]and I ended up landing 30’ short of the runway in some taller grass[>:]. Other deadsticks on that plane I’ve landed it right in front of myself, but not in that strong of a wind. Sometimes it works to plan, other times you’re lucky just to get it down safely and in one piece.

Hogflyer

Bob Mitchell

>> If your engine quits, just bring it in. If you feel it won't make it back to the runway and it looks like it will go in the weeds, make a normal approach and slow it down as normal right into the weeds. Thing is to commit. To commit and then change your mind doesn't work well. <<

When I was training for full scale night flights my instructor gave me the following advice about being committed to an engine out landing: "Choose the largest dark area you can see, and hope it's a field, not a stand of trees. When you get down to about 300' AGL turn on your landing light. If you don't like what you see, turn it back off again."

Bob

cruzomatic

My Feedback: (17)

Bob, great advice. I agree about committing to the landing. I've seen some people try to make it back to the runway and loose their plane. Deadsticks aren't too bad if you're hight and fast. Low and slow, find a spot and land it. A deadstick on take off, point the nose down, get some airspeed and land it. Do not turn around. I've walked many, many times to retrieve my planes, better taking those long walks to get an uninjured plane versus taking a short walk to get a busted up plane.

Bob Mitchell

Yep. You're always better off going in under control/wings level rather than not. Doesn't matter whether you're flying a 747 or a 40 size trainer.

The instructor's comment was obviously a bit tongue-in-cheek, but he made his point. I still smile whenever I think about it.

Bob

bruce88123

Think about it for a bit. I think you WILL turn it off. I was flying cargo at night in a single engine plane for a while over swampy terrain. My boss asked why I always wore my skydiving parachute during these flights. I told him that if the engine quit and I saw no place safe to land - I was jumping. He started wearing HIS chute after that discussion. I also always flew above 8000 ft AGL to give me time to attempt a restart or jump safely.

cappaj1

My Feedback: (1)

Just another interesting thing you can do to make dead stick landings more realistic on the simulator G4.

First turn on Kill Engine option to Always in the Simulation menu - see how to do this in an earlier message in this thread.

Now, for more realism, turn on wind and turbulence. This will cause the wind to shift speed and direction just like in real life.

Go to Simulation/Settings menu.

Then expand Wind and Weather and single click Global Wind. Set both Variation and Gusts to 40. Set Wind Velocity to whatever you want to simulate - I suggest about 10 - 12 for a trainer.

Then expand Turbulence Systems. Set Turbulent Layer Height to the maximum height you will be flying, say 200 feet for example. Set the other two options at 10.

I've played with these settings alot and although you can set these higher, you'll find this a good mix.

Again, this is for Real Flight Generation 4.

Have fun!

goirish

does anyone know how to do something similar with the FSOne. I have the G3.5 and the FSOne, I like the FSOne better as far as seeing the field when practicing landings.

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

Lots of posts on the subject, but so far the best advise on the subject has been by Pilotfighter:
I've done thousands of deadstick landings, it's standard practice for pylon racers. Any deadstick landing is simple energy management. So here is a few more pointers:

Always consider the wind speed and direction before you fly. Your airplane can cover a long distance with the wind, a lot less against the wind. Don't fly far out and low downwind. Your flight pattern altitudes should be bowl shaped relative to the field and distorted by wind.

The distance the airplane will cover depends on wind speed and airplane speed. This one is a bit more complex, but there is not just one best glide speed. Full size pilots may be thinking that that's not what I learned in flight school, but the goal of flight school is to keep you from killing yourself. Unfortunately the real answer is more complex. The short version is that you will lose altitude faster and cover less ground the slower the airplane goes. The faster the wind, the faster it has to fly to cover distance.

Although the "S Turn" is the easiest way to burn off excess energy, it's not the only way. Crossed control forward slips and side slips will do it also. But I agree with learning S turns first. The good news is that they are also fun. They can vary from slight direction changes to quick turns where the wings are banked vertically.

If you can't make the runway, at least land into the wind with the wings level. This is one you must commit to early.

And finally, believe it or not, sometimes with trainers you can catch a themal or two and extend the flight another 15 minutes.

jpjamie

Dead stick refers to the fact that once the engine quits airspeed bleeds off rapidly and the joy stick (fighter pilot jargon for control stick between the legs....think about it) becomes a bit floppy because the air is no longer going over the control surfaces and the aircraft does not respond as before when the engine was running. When the engine(s) quits in any aircraft, the key is to keep airspeed up so you don't stall. The best thing a beginner RC pilots needs to know is that altitude is your friend. If your airplane is "up there" and the engine quits, the more "play time" you'll have to get airspeed up and get it on the landing strip. Since you can't measure airspeed, keep the nose down in a shallow dive and try to time things so you can turn onto final and land. You don't see a lot of dead sticks because todays engines are much better and a good RC pilot is timing his flight to avoid a deadstick. I like to practice deadsticks now and then. If you have a deadstick let the other pilots know about it immediately, so they can abort landings etc. and sometimes they can help you with "advice." One other thing, glider pilots always land "dead stick" since they don't have an engine to worry about. A wee bit of planning and practice gets you over the anxiety of dead stick landing and before you know it, you'll be "greasing" them in.

Hossfly

Reply to the thread vice the usual RCU previous.

I have performed many deadstick landings (two full scale). The main mistake that the RCer makes is to not sacrifice altitude for airspeed. I see this frequently. As expressed above, the model has to have airspeed to move forward and be under control. Airspeed has to exceed head-wind component to have ground speed (like a car) to move towards the intended landing spot. In addition, only airspeed above "stall speed" a frequently used term which defines nothing will provide adequate airflow to maintain control. An out of control aircraft very seldom makes a decent landing.

Be careful of using 360 degree turns to lose altitude as all turns add much drag, which requires more loss of altitude to maintain airspeed. However if high and close then a 360 may well be the ticket. That is a pilot judgment call and that is what separates pilots from airplane-drivers.

If you slow down and stay high, then you use a lot of the one amount of potential energy between the aircraftt and mother earth. Adjust your plan to use it wisely.

Each airplane has a minimum drag airspeed. That is the best glide speed for endurance and no-wind distance. Wind makes things different. BTW a 727 at 210-220 KIAS can glide no-wind distance farther than a J-3 cub given the same altitude at its best glide speed.

LufthansaCFI

Had my first dead-stick today. I was just turning base when the engine quit. Made a pretty nice landing. Turned out my fuel had gone bad, probably due to me dumping my unused fuel after each flight back into the jug.

jpjamie

I hate to get off the thread, but this is kind of related, I "dump back" unused fuel often and it has (so far) never caused engine problems for me.

LufthansaCFI

Well, the fuel could have also absorbed a bit too much water condensation I guess. It was the last bit of fuel in the jug. I changed fuel and the problem went away. I read an article about reusing old fuel and it said contamination could get back into your supply this way. Not that I believe EVERYTHING I read .

Nathan King

Yeah, I know guys that dump back fuel and never have a problem. Others seem to run into trouble. Me personally? I've had two half gallons go bad - both were stored in my garage. I think it has more to do with where it's stored than about anything else (assuming you keep them sealed).

cappaj1

My Feedback: (1)

Don't know how to as I don't have FSOne but an ad I read on it says it should be able to do it and that it has turbulence, thermals, and such, and I quote:

"With FS One you get more than photorealistic fields, gorgeous skies and realistic looking aircraft. You get incredibly advanced aerodynamic modeling that simulates every possible aspect of real-world flight. Post stall effects, tip stalls, torque and gyroscopic effects, propwash, ground effect, wind, thermals, turbulence"

Thumprding

By all means learn to dead stick land. There is a big difference between I need to land now and get it right, or close to right, or just on the ground some where by me, verses I can go around and do it again. Practice dead sticks from all kinds of flying conditions from being on approach to the top side of a loop to just completing a down wind turn, tooo. This is where an electric is nice to have because you can just shut it off, land then turn it back on and go right back up and try again


The other part of learning to dead stick is that it teaches you more of the the flying characteristis of your plane. How well does it glide, how does it stall, how easy is it to recover a stall, how much air speed can I bleed off with a flare, and so forth. That will become important as you progress from a docile trainer to more advanced planes and more advanced manuvers.

EpoweredRC

Yu need to practice and when you start flying you need to practice once you can land good and fly really good with engine on, I see so many people have a dead stick and they have No clue what to do, we recently added a check list to our club for new pilots and it was not on it, i said it should be but some said No, I think everyone should have to do it to prove they can.

heck just pull back to a idle and land its almost the same thing. just make sure you don't stall the plane, many pull up to try and get every foot to the runway and run out of speed and stall it and to lots of damage, depends on where you fly also, at my Field you have a drop off on both ends and can't see the plane from the flight station, some Fields you would just be walking quite a bit to pick up the plane.

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

If you have to walk more than 20 feet to pick up the airplane after a deadstick landing, then you need more practice.

Adui

I disagree. I deadsticked right on power up for a go around. I was making my approach, and being a new pilot didnt get it quite right, I was going to lad long, possibly off hte end of the runway. So I powered up and began to climb out for a fly around, and ran out of gas.
Since I was in a 30 degree or so climb with low airspeed she stalled, I recovered but had to glide it down off the end of the runway in the rough. There was no possible way to safely return it, and so I had to walk about 350 feet to recover my bird. Had I even attempted to turn it around I would have lost the 15 or so feet of altitude I had in a hurry. The result would have been more repairs than the broken nose gear I had to fix needed.

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

In that particular case, you did the right thing. But you also need more practice.

In my earlier post I mentioned that your flight pattern should be based on altitude and distance, related to the wind direction and velocity. As long as you maintain flight within those limits, you should always be able to land on the runway, rolling out pretty much right to your feet. Lower than that, you are in the coffin corner. There you do what you can to just get down without damage to the plane, or damage to property, or personal injury.

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

This would be ok in a 1/2A plane ,,I deadstick every landing, my 1/2a stuff, my .40 trainer, my stick, my extra, and the uproar...I did loose a trainer, turning too fast to line up the runway, I was too low and with the sharp turn the plane basically fell out of the sky..infact I have only 1 powered landing under my belt and it was someone elses trainer.....Rog

Charlie P.

I disagree, too. Depends on altitiude and whether you're upwind or downwind when it occurs. Sometimes the better part of valor is to walk a little ways and collect an intact model. My last dead-stick was after a low and slow touch and go practicing with an apron flap and trying to get the right down elevator mixed in. I konked out 100 ft down the runway and 20 ft up just after giving her full throttle. Had I tried and switched-back I'd have cartwheeled. (Big rookie mistake to turn downwind in a deadstick at low altitude). Better just to nose down and land 200 ft away than try and bring her back.

In fact, this image was taken where she landed.

cappaj1

My Feedback: (1)

I'm confused - when you say you deadstick every landing what do you actually mean, that you intentionally just fly until you run out of fuel?

Also, what is 1/2A mean, half scale, and if so, what's the A stand for?

bruce88123

1/2A planes have like an .049 engine on them and usually no throttles. So unless you want to try to land at full throttle you wait until it burns dry.