donxavier

My Feedback: (3)

I am asking advice to all those that have landed the F-22 on proper landing instructions from beginning to end don't leave out a smigit
If you feel it really doesn't make a difference on what aircraft you land, all landings are the same feel free to help me out and post your instructions on how you feel it should be done. I am a sponge waiting to soak up your input and insights?

brett65

My Feedback: (18)

You need to practice slow flight with it, that way you can get a feel for how slow you can go before it stalls. PRACICE IT AT A HIGH ALTITUDE THOUGH! You don't want to stall and crash. Check this stuff here too, it talks about the ground effect, and landing techniques. http://www.rcuniverse.com/university...id=0&classid=0

bassmanh

My Feedback: (5)

don,

isnt the instructor you got teaching you how to fly ? he/she will help you when the time comes to start learning how to land





bassman

donxavier

My Feedback: (3)

I haven't gotten an instructor yet. That's the end of next month when I get my drivers license back and I can drive myself to the club until then I am all ears. I haven't gained what little insight I do have in this hobby and others by sitting back waiting for it to land on my lap, I do my home work first. Like I said I am a sponge, but I do appreciate your wit bassmanh[8D]

YUKONFLYR

Don - Good to see that you are doing your homework

I have not flown the Raptor however configrured like a trainer it should fly somewhat like that if Hanger 9 has put a trainer stamp on it!

When test flying a new plane I usually stay far away from slow flight. Prior to landing I do a practice approach at a fast pace to see the sink rate and control that it has as it slows down. From that I will make a decision on how high to start from and at what speed to come in during landing.

Standard landing is as follows.

Fly parrallel to the runway on your downwind leg and make you base turn and then turn final approach to the runway flying into the wind. On a test flight I usually keep the power on until I am lined up with the runway. Reduce your power and let the nose of the plane drop a little to keep it flying and loosing altitude. Make sure you do not dive the plane and or allow it to porpus up and down. If you do.....throttle up and make another approach. Better to go around than to try to force an approach that is less than perfect. So now you are loosing altitude and gliding towards the runway. When your plane is about 15' above the ground you need to start think about reducing your already slow rate of decent and at 10' you need to start rotating the plane from the nose down position to a more neutral or flat position. To much rotation and the plane will climb and again, PIO ( pilot induced occialation) or porpusing will occur. So you start to rotate and at about 5 feet the plane is now flat and its decent is much slower. As the plane slows down the nose can be lifted up without the plane climbing. Your wings angle of attack can be increased without much more lift being generated due to loss of speed of airflow over its surface. At about 1 foot your plane should be in a nose high attitude or tail low attitude, all you have to do now is wait for it to touch the runway and keep the plane straight with the rudder as it rolls out to a stop.

The above is easier said than performed

Most students will get the plane lined up and get the decent correct and then the rotation part is too fast and occures after the plane lands on its nose gear and is deflected upwards to a nose high attitude. This is a normal event as a student..........there is lots to do on a landing, one of the reasons that trainers are bouncing up and down the runway. When this happens to you, throttle up to full power and go around. There is no shame in going around on a missed approach........

Good luck

Richard

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

The most important part of landing is having the plane descending at a controlled rate with the nose level or slightly up. Where you establish this attitude (as you start your downwind, or just before touchdown or anywhere in between) is purely a matter of personal style. I normally teach my students to establish this attitude early in the approach pattern, preferrably on the base leg or even the down wind leg. Its easier to establish this attitude when the plane is higher than to wait until the plane is over the runway or nearly so as Yukon Flyer describes.

Once the plane is in this attitude, its easy to add some throttle to gain altitude, or ease off the elevator to gain speed. Speed can be added much quicker than it can be taken off.

With the plane in this attitude, you simply make small corrections as necessary to keep the plane on center of the runway. Once it descends to the runway, the main LG should touch first, causing the nose to drop onto the runway. As the nose drops, the lift on the wings is further reduced, and the plane will not bounce. If you push the nose down as your approaching and the nose touches first, you will increase lift, and the plane will "bounce" off the runway.

Brad

Adui

Hmm.

From one new pilot to another, here is my take from various questions and practice.

I slow WAY down on my downwind leg, I get her going as slow as she will fly without stalling, and then I keep a slight nose up, (as described) and use the throttle to control my altitude. As I make my turn to base, and then to final, I add just a touch of power to prevent a tip stall in the turn. The amount will vary depending on wind speed and direction, and the model used. I then throtle all the way back and let it settle onto the runway, all the while I keep the nose slightly up. (usingthe throttle to make the glide long enough of course)
I come into my final approach roughly 30 feet up, probably too high since I usually land long (Still at 20ft most times as I cross the runway threshold[:@])

It is important to note a few items.

First; practice the slow flight WAY up high for at least a full flight before trying this. I recommend deliberately stalling the aircraft several times to get used to recovering, as well as learning exactly how slow it is safe to take her without stalling.

Second; my aircraft is an Arrow, by Hanger 9. It is a semi symetrical winged trainer, and a more traditional high wing trainer than what you fly. It floats quite well, and when it stalls it is more of a speed bump that a true stall. Soo, all this what I do. While good for you to try, it needs to be adjusted as you learn the stall characteristics of your aircraft.

Finally, if your trainer flies anything close to how mine does, it will want to drift all over the place when flying so slowly, (at least it does for me) So work on keeping it strait, and find a speed that is slow enough for you to comfortably land with but high enough to keep you going down the runway and not drifting back and forth. (this is the part Im still working at LOL)

jetmech05

I just taught a gentleman with a Raptor....
First I have some bad news for you....get rid of the 3 blade prop...get a nice APC 10x7 2 blade and a new spinner..I found that the 3 blade prop that comes with the airplane just doesn't produce the thrust needed..and the 10x7 prop will give you ground clearance get 2 or 3 of them....you can move up to an 11 prop after you get good at landing....
Second I'm sure we pulled the flaps up and left them up...
Third Adui gave some good advice...throttle is altitude..and elevators become speed.....
Fourth....I can show you how to fly..but it's impossible for me to write it all down....
Get with and listen to your instructor..Good Luck.. Have fun

Nathan King

I haven't come across two aircraft that feel the same, landing included. That's why I say that most beginners don't really understand things until they get a half dozen aircraft or so under their belt. I have flown the Raptor. All training gear was off except the flaps were halfway extended. The Raptor really slows down fast in that configuration. As for flying and landing - it's far too complex and involves too much nuance to explain from a computer half way across the continent. Patience.... Wait for your instructor to show you these things.

Another thing, because of it's smaller profile it is a little more difficult to keep proper orientation on than a typical trainer. It wasn't difficult to keep orientation by any means, but a little more difficult than a standard trainer.

Steve Steinbring

Flew the F-22 Raptor the other day in its trainer mode.

Like Jetmech stated get rid of the 3 blade prop, raise the flaps to at least half way up. The airplane was a slug coming off the ground and took a good while to develop sufficient airspeed. I practice stalled the airplane up high, no bad habits just dropped straight away.

The landing I flew was a powered approach to touchdown. I didn't fly the airplane again I'm sure performance will increase with a better prop and raising the flaps. Frankly it was the worst flying airplane I'd flown in a while. However, I'd like to fly it cleaned up without the wingtip devices in place, could be a nice flier.

donxavier

My Feedback: (3)

The above is easier said than performed

Most students will get the plane lined up and get the decent correct and then the rotation part is too fast and occures after the plane lands on its nose gear and is deflected upwards to a nose high attitude. This is a normal event as a student..........there is lots to do on a landing, one of the reasons that trainers are bouncing up and down the runway. When this happens to you, throttle up to full power and go around. There is no shame in going around on a missed approach........

Good luck

Richard





This is exactly what I did after even after 3 approaches. I saw first that I was coming in to fast so I throttled back up same thing again because I didn't want to slow so much as to stall. I didn't however learn at what speed it stalls. The last try I came in so high that by the time I was within landing distance it was way ahead of me so I could not see, what you call rotation, I brought the nose up to high. Now I don't know if it was because my speed was still to fast or because I was still up to high. From the that distance it was hard to tell. I know what your talking about. Everything that has been said is very helpful. I will practice slow flying up high to see at what speed it stalls, this makes a lot of sense since I was afraid to come in to slow for fear of stalling. I am not sure if it drifs all over the place at slow speeds, again I had it going pretty fast. The stock prop I ruined my first time trying to get it up. I went to LHS to get a new and they didn't have the stock and I didn't want to wait so I got a 3 blade 10/7 and 10/8'3. I was told to try the 10/7 first and that's what I did and from what little I know it worked pretty good for me. It had power and speed, but was kinda slow at take off and gaining altitude, that was with the flaps down and the droops but like I said I don't have much experience except for my foamies and the FS one sim.

One last thing, is there anyway I can get a drawing or picture of what the 4 legs of the landing patern look like?

Jburry

This is the best landing tutorial I've read yet: Complete with diagrams!

http://www.masportaviator.com/ah.asp?CatID=8&ID=20

J

donxavier

My Feedback: (3)

Are all the monster trucks savages???

donxavier

My Feedback: (3)

Beautiful.. exactly what I was looking for Jburry, Thanks

jetmech05

Gonna teach yourself without an instructor? I remember your last post....

donxavier

My Feedback: (3)

I am gonna get an instructor (read the whole thread) but I still like to do my own research and data collecting. I didn't get this far in this hobby and others by waiting for info to fall on my lap.Thank you very much[:@]

Nathan King

No, it's good that you are taking the initiative and finding out answers to your questions yourself. It's good to educate yourself from multiple sources rather than blindly trusting one individual.

LufthansaCFI

So I'll ask.

Why did you lose your driver's license?

donxavier

My Feedback: (3)

I rather not say at this time.

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

I know someone said something about this above somewhere, but I'll restate it.

First thing to do is fly the plane high up, and slow it way down; you need to learn how much throttle your plane takes to actually fly (like make turns without stalling). For me, 3 clicks of throttle and I can fly with a little wind, able to turn around, make a figure 8, whatever.

Once you know how little throttle you need to keep the plane under control, follow the pattern and pretend to 'land' 30 or 40 feet above the ground. You want to examine the descent rate of the plane - once you've turned to final, lose a click of throttle. How fast does the plane come down? That is the descent rate - the rate at which the plane loses altitude. More throttle slows the descent, less throttle causes the plane to descend faster. You use your throttle to control how high the plane is from the ground when landing. You will need to be using a little bit of elevator, but this is actually controlling speed more than altitude.

So now you know your descent rate. You turn to final and adjust the descent rate so that your plane will land in the first bit of runway. You are holding a little elevator, and making adjustments to throttle to get the plane to land in the right spot. When you are just over the runway and ready to land, lower throttle, and use elevator to keep the plane flying a few inches off the ground and here is where you lose all your speed,, and fly this way as long as you can. If your plane jumps back up, too much speed, and maybe a little too much elevator. You want to come down and glide over the runway and lose your speed there, and have the plane settle down from a few inches/foot up.

jetmech05

If those 3 flights you were discussing in post 11 are the same ones from your first post....then I misunderstood.....sorry about that.....
your welcome very much