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Industrial Arts in Schools Today

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Old 08-19-2008, 08:00 AM
  #51
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Default RE: Industrial Arts in Schools Today

WE have a lot of responsibility for the shape our schools are in. We actually are responsible for what our politicians do, and for what our educators don't do.

Yeah, kids today have a lot to learn. Unfortunately, since the bar is continually being lowered, they aren't even being exposed to much of it.

Get off your butts and go vote. Vote out the people who aren't doing the job you think should be done. And if your choice of replacement doesn't start raising the bar, boot that sucker. In the US, it's the citizens who are supposed to run the country by their choices. So get off your butt and choose people who'll do what you think needs to be done.
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Old 08-19-2008, 11:22 AM
  #52
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Actually, the bar keeps being raised. Where does this idea that standards are continually being lowered come from?

da Rock, what's your experience in schools today?
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Old 08-19-2008, 11:40 AM
  #53
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ORIGINAL: MikeL

Actually, the bar keeps being raised. Where does this idea that standards are continually being lowered come from?

da Rock, what's your experience in schools today?
How about the fact that schools want to lower standards and not allow zeros to be given. Dallas schools actually want to start grading on effort not achievement. That's a plan for making a bunch of losers. You can't have a winning side in alot of schools today during recess games, they don't want kids to know that they were losers. Too much PC today. I know when I lost, it made me try extra hard the next time around in whatever it was.
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Old 08-19-2008, 12:33 PM
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ORIGINAL: brett65

How about the fact that schools want to lower standards and not allow zeros to be given. Dallas schools actually want to start grading on effort not achievement. That's a plan for making a bunch of losers. You can't have a winning side in alot of schools today during recess games, they don't want kids to know that they were losers. Too much PC today. I know when I lost, it made me try extra hard the next time around in whatever it was.
This is another problem today. Kids don't know how to fail. I read an article recently where large corporations are having to provide counseling for their 20-something employees becuase for the first time in their life they are facing any kind of failure and they just don't have the coping skills to deal with it, and it's messing them up. It's sad, but we've created this problem. Kids today are shielded from failure in every aspect. Every kid gets a trophy on the soccer field, no "F's" on report cards, semester exams instead of "Finals" (because finals are too traumatic), not keeping track of a teams season record, and so on and so forth. These kids have never had to deal with the feeling of failing so they don't know how to deal with it when they hit the corporate world. It's sad, be we as a society are failing our kids because they aren't being taught the life skills they need to survive in the world. I'm like Brent, when I failed it just made me want to try harder so I didn't fail again.

Ken
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Old 08-19-2008, 12:36 PM
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ORIGINAL: Bob Mitchell
learning how to learn is the single most important factor.
I am currently a Senior in college pursuing a degree in Mechanical Engineering. When I was a sophomore, I had a physics teacher that is the smartest man I have ever met and probably will meet. His class was very unstructured. Instead of schedules and curriculums, he walked in every day and asked if we had any questions. If we did not, then he would not be very happy. Instead of teaching us about physics, he let the students lead the class and come up with the theories and equations on their own. Of course, he gave helpful hints and nudges to lead us in the right direction, but it was a very effective way to teach the class.

There were a couple of things that he taught us that I will never forget and has helped me immensely throughout the rest of my college career.

The first was to read every day. It did not matter what, but just read every day. There is so much wisdom and knowledge hidden in text and most people will not seek it out. The more you read, the more likely you will find these little gems of information and wisdom.

The second was college is not about learning things, but about learning how to learn. He started this lesson by asking us to list everything we would need to know after we graduated college. Of course, this was not possible and his point was that we had to learn how to learn. Since then, I have taken a whole new approach to all of my classes and my grades are better now than they have ever been, and I feel like I am actually doing less work for those better grades. My girlfriend is baffled by me because she works her butt off studying all the time and does not get the grades that I do, and I do much less work and excel in my classes.

My point is that learning how to learn and learning how to find information is a VERY valuable lesson to learn and will make everything in your life easier.
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Old 08-19-2008, 01:02 PM
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ORIGINAL: brett65

How about the fact that schools want to lower standards and not allow zeros to be given. Dallas schools actually want to start grading on effort not achievement. That's a plan for making a bunch of losers. You can't have a winning side in alot of schools today during recess games, they don't want kids to know that they were losers. Too much PC today. I know when I lost, it made me try extra hard the next time around in whatever it was.
When I hear things like this, it causes me to wonder. Facts are verifiable. When you say that Dallas schools want to do something, it seems clear that they have not done that thing. Do you have anything from the Dallas school board that indicates such a plan, or is this mere rumor? From where have you heard this? Do you know it to be fact?

I won't argue about too much PC today. I will add that there is too much willingness to believe "facts" promoted by people with an agenda. Usually that agenda involves making money by means of retaining an audience and exposing them to advertising. Sensationalism is the word, I believe.
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Old 08-19-2008, 01:23 PM
  #57
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Default RE: Industrial Arts in Schools Today


Quote:
ORIGINAL: MikeL


Quote:
ORIGINAL: brett65

How about the fact that schools want to lower standards and not allow zeros to be given. Dallas schools actually want to start grading on effort not achievement. That's a plan for making a bunch of losers. You can't have a winning side in alot of schools today during recess games, they don't want kids to know that they were losers. Too much PC today. I know when I lost, it made me try extra hard the next time around in whatever it was.
When I hear things like this, it causes me to wonder. Facts are verifiable. When you say that Dallas schools want to do something, it seems clear that they have not done that thing. Do you have anything from the Dallas school board that indicates such a plan, or is this mere rumor? From where have you heard this? Do you know it to be fact?

I won't argue about too much PC today. I will add that there is too much willingness to believe "facts" promoted by people with an agenda. Usually that agenda involves making money by means of retaining an audience and exposing them to advertising. Sensationalism is the word, I believe.
It was from a local paper report from Dallas, that the morning radio guy read.
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Old 08-19-2008, 01:39 PM
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Default RE: Industrial Arts in Schools Today

I would estimate that our education system peaked in the late 40's or early 50's. The GI bill and a lot of people that had first hand experience with both the depression and a world war. Anyway colleges received an influx of movtivated men and women. But since, the courses have become watered down at all levels, and quite frankly today there are just too many wimps. Now high schools and colleges are impeded by helicopter parents, and nobody can allowed to fail or succeed.
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Old 08-19-2008, 01:51 PM
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Default RE: Industrial Arts in Schools Today

Here is why our education system is so messed up.[link=http://thetimes-tribune.com/articles/2008/08/17/news/sc_times_trib.20080817.a.pg1.tt17orlando_s1.187589 5_top2.txt]http://thetimes-tribune.com/articles/2008/08/17/news/sc_times_trib.20080817.a.pg1.tt17orlando_s1.187589 5_top2.txt[/link]
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Old 08-19-2008, 01:53 PM
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ORIGINAL: hobbyenthusiast

Here is why our education system is so messed up.[link=http://thetimes-tribune.com/articles/2008/08/17/news/sc_times_trib.20080817.a.pg1.tt17orlando_s1.187589 5_top2.txt]http://thetimes-tribune.com/articles/2008/08/17/news/sc_times_trib.20080817.a.pg1.tt17orlando_s1.187589 5_top2.txt[/link]
That's why I want school vouchers! Give me my taxes back to pay for a good private school!
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Old 08-19-2008, 02:20 PM
  #61
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Default RE: Industrial Arts in Schools Today

All I know is when my kid came home from school and I go through some of his work.
Filling the BLANKS as a senior in HS, the bar had gone way down.
To top it off it was the same type of work I received in grade school. My grammer is not so great...if you notice.
My kid didn't do one term paper or book reports. I did term papers in the 4th grade.

I've had to trained many kids for vocational programs at my place of employment. They can't even use a ruler.

Even when I took courses at a local college just trying to obtain my AA. The highest math class that was available was algebra II.
I took algebra in middle school. Easy freaken A..but I wasn't getting more educated.
My kid couldn't even do fractions when he was in HS.

When I took computer classes as a Freahman in HS , I had to write programs.

I had to attend a manitory computer class when obtaining my AA driver license. It was more like .."this is a key board" a typing class.

Even when I was in HS, it was starting to go down hill.
My english classes were being taught in spanish to really rub it in.

BTW my kid is not stupid..he was under educated. He's currenlty in the navy as intelligents.
He speaks multiple language now becuase he got trained or educated.
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Old 08-19-2008, 02:32 PM
  #62
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Default RE: Industrial Arts in Schools Today

Same here, all I ever saw come home was fill in the blanks type assignments, never any hand written reports. All I ever saw was computer generated comments on the report cards and "teachers' conference days" [days off] about every other week.
If the bar is being raised anywhere it is being raised by the immigrants who put their kids in our schools to learn, not to be "baby sat". Our local JC populations are dominated by orientals who obviously have been raised with a strong work ethic and thirst for knowledge. When's the last time you saw one of them standing at a freeway off ramp holding a sign?
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Old 08-19-2008, 02:36 PM
  #63
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Default RE: Industrial Arts in Schools Today

Well, in Michigan, when i had industrail arts 3 years back or so, we learned a lot about stucural enginearing, welding, tools, and preet much the basics. We even had a chance to experiment with programing small robots. I dont thinks its as bad as you all think, but, many of the automotive and welding classes in the high school are being cut, much to my disapointment.

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Old 08-19-2008, 02:39 PM
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Default RE: Industrial Arts in Schools Today

Ok guys, this has gotten WAY off the topic of RC so I'm going to close it.
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