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CA hinges came loose.

Old 12-07-2008, 10:27 PM
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millertym2000
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Default CA hinges came loose.

I have a Tiger 60 that I kit built, I've been flying it for about 6 months and yesterday I looked at the wing and noticed that on one of the ailerons 3 of the 4 CA hinges came loose [X(]. I've never really liked the looks of CA hinges, but I know they are proven to work. Well now that I have to rehinge the aileron I think I'm going to use something else. I looked at tower and seen these http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXK117&P=0. Are these good hinges? And what size would I need for my tiger 60, the small, medium, or large? Thanks again for any help. James
Old 12-07-2008, 10:30 PM
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DMcQuinn
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Default RE: CA hinges came loose.

When you installed the CA hinges originally, did you insert them into both the wing-trailing-edge and the aileron joints "dry"? Then you drop about 5 drops of super-thin CA into the hinge line and the glue soaks up inside the hinges and they never come loose.

Probably the medium size of replacement hinges will work for you.
Old 12-07-2008, 10:43 PM
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Default RE: CA hinges came loose.

yes, I put the hinges in the aileron and the TE dry, then used ultra thin CA. I used 6 to 8 drops on each. Was that to much?
Old 12-07-2008, 10:46 PM
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Default RE: CA hinges came loose.

Did the CA hinge pull out clean?? or was there any wood stuck to it? If it came out clean then chances are the slot was cut too wide for the hinge, and the hinge never had any wood against it for the material to bind to when you applied the CA.

Ken
Old 12-07-2008, 10:46 PM
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w8ye
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Default RE: CA hinges came loose.

After you re-glue your hinges, you can pin the hinges with round tooth picks. Drill holes for the tooth picks and insert them through the hinge tabs in booth the trailing edge of the wing and the aileron. Trim off the excess
Old 12-07-2008, 11:12 PM
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flaminheli
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Default RE: CA hinges came loose.

I don't know why but I have always prefered these .
[link]http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXD941&P=0.[/link] I have never had one fail or pull out when installed with 30 minute epoxy.
I always substitute the supplied ca hinges in ARF planes with them. The hinges you are looking at will require a hole drilled for the hinge on both surfaces but the ones I showed you all you will probably have to do open the slot on the surfaces up a little so that you can get enough epoxy into it. Take a piece of hardwood and shave it down to the thickness of the slit and about 1/4" long. Apply the epoxy to the slit and work in it with the piece of carved down hardwood and then wipe off the excess, it may take a minute or two to get plenty of epoxy in the slit, and then install the hinge, it has always worked for me. It is fast and easy. Just remember, 30 minute epoxy.
Old 12-07-2008, 11:16 PM
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Alex7403
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Default RE: CA hinges came loose.

millertym2000 check out this thread about hinges and hinging problems and techniques:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_81...tm.htm#8165384

Deadeye is explaining very well about robart point hinges, they are the most similar to the hinges you pointed out (post #5).

Alex
Old 12-07-2008, 11:20 PM
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Default RE: CA hinges came loose.

One thing I have found out is when one CA hinge comes loose, chances are at least one more will come loose too. If you want to replace them just cut through them all to remove the control surface and use a non-CA hinge. I like to use [link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXET57&P=ML]Robart Hinge Points[/link] as a replacement, and glue them in with [link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXCX67&P=ML]Zap Hinge Glue[/link]. This is very easy combination to work with and holds great.

I'm in the process of rebuilding a plane that was assembled with CA hinges will be using those hinges and glue when I finish covering and assembling it.

Hogflyer
Old 12-08-2008, 06:35 AM
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Default RE: CA hinges came loose.

This is one point that often gets overlooked. Never NEVER add CA again after you have applied it the first time. Once you add the 5 or so drops to each side of the CA hinge, do not add more after it sets up. Leave it alone.

I had a Tiger 60 as my second plane. After I hinged it with CA hinges, I thought it was a good thing "just to make sure" to add more CA to each hinge. After I did that, I was talking to the 'club pro' and he said that when doing CA hinges to never re-apply CA to the hinge... that will cause it to unbond or to cause the original bonding to become brittle and the force of the surface will cause the hinge to come undone. Sure enough, a couple months later, I noticed that one of the ailerons was loose so I checked it and several of the hinges came undone. I was lucky I caught it. I removed all of the hinged surfaces.. ailerons, rudder, elevator, and re-slotted everything and re-hinged using CA hinges again.

That was about 8 years ago, and that plane still flys today.

CGr.
Old 12-08-2008, 06:59 AM
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Default RE: CA hinges came loose.

I wouldn't use the round Du Bro hinges...instead I'd use the flat ones like flam suggested the small or med size will be fine on a 60 size
Old 12-08-2008, 08:36 PM
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Default RE: CA hinges came loose.

I going to put the robart hinges into a TF 1/7 P51 elevator. What size do you recommended. 1/8 or 3/16. Thanks
Old 12-08-2008, 10:10 PM
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Default RE: CA hinges came loose.

The 1/8 should be good enough but use at least three on each surface
Old 12-09-2008, 12:29 AM
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Default RE: CA hinges came loose.


ORIGINAL: jetmech05

I wouldn't use the round Du Bro hinges...instead I'd use the flat ones like flam suggested the small or med size will be fine on a 60 size
Do you mean the hinge points? If so, why?

Hogflyer
Old 12-09-2008, 01:20 AM
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Default RE: CA hinges came loose.


ORIGINAL: millertym2000

yes, I put the hinges in the aileron and the TE dry, then used ultra thin CA. I used 6 to 8 drops on each. Was that to much?

its kinda hard to insert the dry hinge evenly into the ail, and TE especially if there are several hinges....... i glue one side at a time with thin ca, i usually use those nice thin CA applicator tips hobbico makes ...... if a ca hinge fails on me, they usually fail at the the hinge flex point, i havent had one come loose in a looong time
Old 12-09-2008, 07:54 AM
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Default RE: CA hinges came loose.

ORIGINAL: MetallicaJunkie


ORIGINAL: millertym2000

yes, I put the hinges in the aileron and the TE dry, then used ultra thin CA. I used 6 to 8 drops on each. Was that to much?

its kinda hard to insert the dry hinge evenly into the ail, and TE especially if there are several hinges....... i glue one side at a time with thin ca, i usually use those nice thin CA applicator tips hobbico makes ...... if a ca hinge fails on me, they usually fail at the the hinge flex point, i havent had one come loose in a looong time

Same here...
I fold the hinge in half, to put a mild (not too hard ) crease in them...that marks the centerline...then insert into the control surface first, then glue w/ 5-6 drops of thin CA....and let it set for a while.

Prep of the hinge slot is important...I use my #11 X-Acto blade to ensure the slot is deep and wide enough. Then trim a sliver of covering away from ea. side of the slot...then drill w/ a 1/16" or 5/64" (depending on thickness of the surface ) drill right in the center of the slot, about 1/4 to 3/8" deep so the CA will wick in better...(another pass w/ the #11 blade after drilling the hole is usually required )

As mentioned in a previous post though, you don't want to enlarge the slot too much...the hinge needs to be in full contact w/ the wood.

After the hinges are glued into the surface(s ) I flex them to exercise 'em and test flexability. Then I glue them into the wing/stab. etc.

I also keep an old T shirt and a can of Acetone close by for clean-up if/when necessary.
Old 12-09-2008, 10:31 AM
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Default RE: CA hinges came loose.

I've been told that if the CA type hinge breaks at the pivot point, you have too much CA externally on the hinge pivot area.

Also flutter will break them in the pivot area. If the outer aileron hinge is breaking suspect flutter.
Old 12-09-2008, 01:09 PM
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Default RE: CA hinges came loose.


ORIGINAL: w8ye

I've been told that if the CA type hinge breaks at the pivot point, you have too much CA externally on the hinge pivot area.

Also flutter will break them in the pivot area. If the outer aileron hinge is breaking suspect flutter.

very true, sometimes too much of a good thing is bad
Old 12-09-2008, 01:30 PM
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Default RE: CA hinges came loose.


Before installing a CA hinge it is a good idea to check out the material used itself.

Some ARF's arrive with a CA hinge material that appears to be fibers glued on a plastic substrate.

The problem with these is that over time the glue used on the fibers will age and loose adherence.

I've had a few of these cheap CA hinges pull out completely and very cleanly...

When they do, the plasitic part of the hinge is exposed and looks transparent and shiny.

This has nothing to do with the thickness of the hinge slot, rather the aweful material used.


In contrast the full fiber hinges sold by dubro and others have held up very well over time for me.

These use a different material with no plastic substrate, so there is nothing to come undone over time.

Old 12-09-2008, 01:46 PM
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Default RE: CA hinges came loose.

What is the best thing to do if the hinge openings are pretty large (1/8" at the edge) should I use a different type of hinge? The previous owner I think opend the opening wiht an a screwdriver.
Old 12-09-2008, 02:09 PM
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Default RE: CA hinges came loose.

Fill the area in...

e.g. Wood filler, then after it is dry apply thin CA as a hardener... or microballons, etc.

I've used balsa sawdust hardened with CA as well.
Old 12-10-2008, 04:06 PM
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Default RE: CA hinges came loose.

one word..epoxy..it never leaves me un..hinged lol

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