Jacked69

I just ordered ten minutes ago the at-6 texan from TF to fly before my p-51 does anyone have any experience with this plane and what can I expect out of flight performance? I already have a saito 91 and all servos etc so how will it fly compared to the p-51? Would it be easier or harder on landings, takeoffs, etc? Thank you all for your help, you all have been great.

2slow2matter

My Feedback: (1)

That depends. What P51 are you going to fly? Is it a scale, or sport scale (like the Hanger 9 series). If it is sport scale, it will fly much like any other typical low wing sport plane. If is scale, you will have to stay on top of it.
If they are both sport scale ARF's (most likely) then they will both fly about the same. The difference may be on the ground. The texan most likely will not nose over as bad as the long-nosed P-51 will. The H9 P51's are horrible at nosing over. The texan should have shorter gear and a shorter nose, helping with this. The texan will, however, have a shorter tail moment, so therefore it will be a little more susceptible to "squirliness" on takeoff. I have a TF Gold Kit built Texan, and it's a handful. It has to be flown all the way down, with full flaps, or it will snap in a heartbeat. It also helps to take off with 1/2 flaps. Don't know about the ARF, though. I also have the H9 ARF P51, and it flies as I described above.

bruce88123

2slow- he has a TF P-51 going together.

2slow2matter

My Feedback: (1)

Oh, well then the TF Gold P51 would probably be a bit harrier than the sport Scale ARF's out there.
Also, I'm not sure what exactly the TF ARF Texan is. Is it their Gold kit that they have built? If so, then it will probably fly a lot like the one I built, which I described above. If it is a "scaled down" version of it, then it may fly more sport like.
Sorry, i dont' think I helped much at all. Someone with the TF ARF Texan would be better suited to answer your question.
However, if you are lookign for an opinion, I would definitely fly the ARF long and hard before putting all of my hard work into the air! I assume you have progressed through the normal routine....trainer, low wing trainer, tail dragger, cub, etc.

ChuckW

Minnflyer has reviewed both here on RCU. Take a look:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...rticle_id=1061

http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...rticle_id=1025

I have the P-51 and while it isn't the scariest plane in the world to fly, it definitely is not a beginner aircraft.

I cannot comment on the AT-6 since I have never flowin it. Just keep in mind that the full scale AT-6 might have been a military advanced trainer that does not necessarly mean it is a trainer in RC terms.

bigtim

My Feedback: (13)

given the choices of available planes out there for preparing to fly a warbird I would have gone with a Hangar-9 60 size model, either the mustang, or a P-47, there light wing loading and good flight characteristics are helpfull to the first time warbird fan,open bays in the wings keep things light,and the fuslage construction is much lighter as well and are real floaters .

with the TF AT-6 you have traided one simmilar plane for another, there flight habbits are going to be alot alike, not that there impossable to fly, but if your just starting out its going to be a challenge.
rather than floating like a sport plane they need to be flown in for a landing you can't just chop the power and glide 'er in which requires a little more of a skill set over the Hangar-9's

I realize your pumped to get going from the volume of posts in the last few days,you haven't outlined much of your actual experience in RC just alot of questions in the beginners forum about warbirds,considered by many to be in the "high"challenge catagory.

warbirds are my personal favorite but I worked up to it and am no where close to confident when flying a heavy plane they need speed and a smooth hand so you don't auger that expensive plane into the ground.

I know I have posted this before but many of your questions about all the warbirds you have asked about,TF P-51,BH P-40, etc... can be answered in the warbirds section, by doing a simple search, since these planes have been flown, and tested, by good and bad pilots alike, there is alot of information your missing, many of the threads are 15-30 pages long and are loaded with tricks and observations made by the posters.

by asking in the beginners forum your limiting the scope of information you will get,the AT-6 has its own set of problems just because its a trainer in the full scale world doesn't mean ts a trainer in the RC world,jus remember to get some help with the first few flights, so you give yourself a fighting chance at success.

not to ramble on too much the people here in the forums are a helpfull bunch and want only success in your endevor,rather than a posting in the Crash and Rebuild forum

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Jacked, how many airplanes are you going to buy???

I have flown both of thes planes, and they are like day and night. Neither one will help you to fly the other.

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Jacked,
Trust me when I say this I am not trying to be mean in any way, shape, or form with this advice. In fact, I am hoping to help you out here. I can tell how badly you want to fly your P-51, and I can admit that is a great goal. We all have them as we get into this hobby. Mine was an Ultimate Bipe!!! But let's look at a few things here that may or may not help you.

First of all. Warbirds are designed with certain characteristics. Mostly they are fast, maneuverable, and hard to see. They are that way by design in order to make them better at what they do. And about 90% of the time those characteristics are going to translate down when the plane is scaled down into a model. And this is one of the biggest reasons why warbirds are very difficult to fly. Trust me when I say that I have seen more than one silver P-51 disappear in the sky, which is usually followed by an awful crash. Flying one of these planes isn't just moving the sticks on the radio. You need to train your eyes to watch them in the sky and recognize what the plane is doing in a split second.

This is not a slight of your flight skills, but most every person that learns to fly RC planes is flying "behind" the plane. What does that mean?? It means that as the pilot you are constantly reacting to what the plane is doing, instead of making the plane do what you want it to do. I know that you're going to say that the plane does go where you want. Come on Ken, I can take off, land, and do aerobatics in the air so the plane is doing what I want it to do. But trust me here, most people don't start flying "ahead" of the plane until they have 3-5 planes under their belt. This is not a slight against your skills in any way, but rather something that I have seen to many times to count since I've been in this hobby. It's just the way it goes.

So where does this leave you?? In all honesty it leaves you with a lot of learning to do. And I don't mean simply getting an "easy" warbird to get you ready for your P-51. You need to train your eyes on how to see the flying, you need to train your muscles on how to move the sticks, you need to train you brain to stay ahead of the plane, and many more but you are getting the idea. Here's a trick that may help you out more than you think. Take your radio (do NOT turn it on) and stand watching somebody else fly their warbird. Move the sticks on your box as if you were flying the plane. Believe it our not, this will do a lot to start getting you ready to fly a warbird.

As much as I know you're not going to like to hear this, you really need to follow the same path that everybody else does as they learn to fly. Start with a trainer, then move to a intermediate trainer, then move to a fairly hot sport plane. Do all of this BEFORE you start to fly warbirds. Trust me on this one, if you make it through those three you may be ready to start flying a "tame" warbird. Then start moving up again from there. I know it's not what you want to hear, but it's what's going to need to be done. There are no magic bullets that are going to catapult you into the P-51. The only thing that is going to get you there is experience, and crashes. No I'm not being mean, but crashes are experience builders too. Especially when you start on your warbirds, you are going to more than likely crash at lest one if not more. Do you want that one to be your P-51?? I don't think so.

As I said at the top of this, I'm not trying to be mean. I do want to see you succeed and fly that P-51. But you really need to slow down and hone you skills and build up to it. Even the military doesn't sit a hot fighter jock in the cockpit of a warbird on the very first day. They do a lot of time in a lot of different planes as they learn and improve their skills.

Ken

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Ken has said a lot of good stuff. Flying a warbird is not difficult at all, they go where you point them, but they are not at all forgiving.

And I can tell you from first-hand experience that the TF P-51 has a color scheme that makes it difficult to orient it's position. We often tell beginners to use a very distinct color scheme with contrasting colors with a different set of bottom colors.

A few years back, I was showing picturs of my (then) new Extra 300 which is identical on top and bottom. A beginner asked, "Won't that make it tought to tell the plane's orientation?" My reply was, "Yes, but I've been flying long enough that I KNOW which way the plane is going, because I PUT IT THERE"

Here's what you should consider: Get a good, intermediate plane and cover it all Olive Drab with a white band on each wing. It will be difficult to see, but it will do wonders for your visual skills.

You'll need those as much as smart sticks when it comes time to fly the P-51

Jester241

Excellent post Ken.....its very,VERY true. I started this hobby acouple years ago with the intention of building the TF spitfire. I almost did,but opted to start with my trainer and go from there. Then I got a big stick...then a little sukhoi. Then I got a used and in need of some slight repairs Hanger 9 P-51. I had my instructor fly it and I flew it on his buddy box a few times and boy oh boy was it UNPREDICTABLE to take off and land. I did fly it some by myself after that,but I've replaced the landing gear about 4 times,broke several props and couple spinners. Well,since then I've added a couple other planes like a nice edge and yak to my collection and I fly all my planes quite a bit.......except that P-51,lol. Its still my best hanger queen,but I plan to either fly it or smash it this summer! It easy to fly,but taking off is always scary as alot of p-51s(including mine) like to nose over during take offs. And getting it to slow down for landing is very difficult without over shooting the runway or slamming it down hard on the runway and bending the landing gear.

Yeah.....a couple years and atleast 5 planes later and I still question if I'm ready to fly that thing,lol. And I still find myself flying behind my planes most of the time. And the sad part is alot of the guys at the field think I've learned so fast and am doing way better then I give myself credit for. If they only knew.......lol.


OH......I realize now that theres still NO WAY I'm gonna be putting the time and energy into building that spitfire kit and risking crashing it. Maybe an ARF,but not a kit. I know too well how much building your plane from a kit makes you nervous level while flying it.....skyrocket!

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

This is so very true. I like to think of myself as at least intermediate but I still get somewhat confused when flying because, sometimes, I have a tough time telling if the plane is upright or upside down. If I get disoriented, I wiggle the wings to see what one goes down or up.. that way I know if it is going away from me or coming toward me. The upside down issue is pretty quickly determined because pulling on the elevator will give that orientation away forth-with.

Color schemes is a big deal, especially for a beginner. So, pay attention to what Ken and Mike (Minnflyer) have been saying, especially if you are a beginner.. that is, of course, if you have lots of disposable $$$ at hand.

CGr.

ChuckW

That is very, very true. It looks great on the ground but olive drab and silver have a way of being difficult to distinguish at 90MPH and 400 feet high.


Nope, flying is pretty straight forward provided you can see the airplane, it's the take off's and landings that I've had the most trouble with.

Bob Mitchell

Not trying to hijack the thread here, but wouldn't it be more productive to ask this kind of question before you buy?

Good luck with both of your planes.

NorfolkSouthern

One question I have is about the P-51 on the RealFlight simulator. I found it to be one of the easiest planes for me to fly, especially when compared to the Cap 232 in G 4.5. I am sure that the Top-Flite mustang in real life would be different. But, it has no tendency to tip stall like the cap, and also has excellent slow-flight handling (at least for me, anyway). First, I would expect the Mustang to come in hot, and bounce considerably like the Formula 1 racer on the sim. It didn't. I would lower the flaps, and it would float in like a Hangar-9 Twist. Or, I would keep the flaps up and come in shallow, again there were no bad habits. It would come in like a Goldberg Tiger 2. Could it be my perception? Takeoffs were strait, and it would stear with the left stick, strait as an arrow and not nearly the handful that my Hangar-9 Tango is.

I'm under the impression that Great Planes is way off in their calibration. Not to say that I'm an inexperienced pilot wanting one. Well, I'll admit that I've been on the sticks for a couple years, and have flown enough variety to know that there are differences. It still doesn't make me an ace pilot by a long shot. I just find it unusual for the simulator Mustang to be less challenging than the Hangar-9 PTS in sport-mode that I downloaded off the Knife Edge forums. Does anybody here who owns a TF P-51 have the simulator too? And, have any of you tried the simulator, in comparrison to the one you fly at the field? How are the two different in landings and low-speed handling characteristics?

NorfolkSouthern

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

I don't have the Sim, but I just want to say that flying the P-51 IS easy. As I have said many times, warbirds, and advanced sport planes are VERY easy to fly... ONCE YOU KNOW HOW TO FLY

But knowing how to fly means knowing which way your plane is going without the help of a high-contrast color scheme, and/or knowing how to get out of trouble once things go wrong.

ChuckW

The simulator can be very misleading. Even with all of the excellent work that goes into them, the still do not mimic the real world exactly. They are great tools but I consider mine more of a fun RC video game rather than a substitute for real flying.

Also, you have to consider the particular P-51 or CAP being modeled in the simulator. Those very well might fly similar to their real world counterparts while other models of the same plane could be very different. For example, take a Parkzone Corsair and compare its characteristics to a Top Flite or Zoroli corsair. Flying the little foamie you might think the Corsair is a piece of cake but it would be a different story with something much larger, heavier and more true to scale.

Jacked69

Thank you for your very much for you posts in great detail, fist I want to say to NorFolk I also have the G5 sim and my friend has the same p-51 as me, the TF gold and he said ti flys so dam close to the real thing its unreal. And Ken, thank you for your info, Also one reason why I am getting planes now that I am not advanced enough to fly is because I want to get them while my business is good. I pay my bills, buy grocerys, pay car payments and then my fiancee whatever she needs and after that what I have leftover I buy another plane not knowing how the economy will be in the next month or 2. I consider myself a intermediate pilot, I have over 30 hours on my alpha 40, I have about 2 hours on the avistar and my pulse 40 with the 55ax will be done tomorrow, off topic, can I put skis on that? If so can someone send me a link? I just ordered the nitro planes p-47 to set aside and the arf was cheap and I had a saito 91 with all electronics from my sopwith camel so that barley costed anything, currently I have a alpha 40, avistar with OS 40 LA, Sopwith camel that i have for sale with no engine or electronics, never flown. a FW 190 that i got from the RCU trade forums for cheap and my GP minnow with a super tigre g75 and my TF p-51 which I WILL NOT fly until I master all the planes I mentioned, I would cry if I crashed that, it has a golden knight 100 in it with a 14x8 prop and I just ordered a 4 blade 14x8 for a more scale look. the spinner if from tru turn and they where very helpful and I chose the black anodized spinner for it. Ken I really appreciate you telling me like it is, this board has taught me so much and I try to post everday with any ?s i have and everyone has been great, I left my other board because if I where to ask this ? I would get bashed all day long so bad i had to leave the board, it almost made me get out of the hobby until I found this board. I can not thank you all enough for helping me in this hobby, as you all know I am a professional bodybuilder and RC cars and planes which I am into really takes the stress out of my work and prepping for shows. Minn you have always answered my posts with very helpfull info and I appreciate that. So now that the pulse is done I am going to move to that from my trainer, put some skis on it and have some fun, we have 11'' of snow here in chicago, so its a blast landing in the snow. Again thank you all for your help and also please let me know how the nitro planes p-47 is, here is the link to the one I bought. http://www.nitroplanes.com/pth120.html I LOVE the color scheme on that and IMO is the nicest looking p-47 around. Also one more ? ( sorry for so many) My p-51 is all done but the as**** that had it first for 4 weeks and did nothing but take it out of the box as he was going to build it, but he kept the canopy and tf said there on backorder for sometime, does anyone know where I can get a new one from? Jason

chashint

You know this is a thread that I should just stay away from but I just can't do it, mostly because I just took the time to post in Jacked69's thread on the P-47.
Now I see this and realize that nothing has changed with this guy.

Jacked69 you tell so many different stories that you just can't keep it straight in your head can you ?
Don't you remember what you told us when you first 'discovered' this board ??
If the story is now truly different and I am out of line with this post then my sincere apologies to you and the other forum participants for being a 'doubting Thomas', but I think that once again you have taken advantage of the good hearted caring people that try to provide support through this community.

The people here and the people on the 'other board' have tried in good faith to help you.
But it does not seem possible to do so.

ChuckW

I disagree here. I have both the simulator and the airplane. Flying once airborne is kind similar but ground handling and landing don't come close. The simulator plane feels much "lighter". It tracks nice on take-off and just floats in for gentle landings while the actual plane is a bit more sqirelly on the ground and definitely won't just float in like that. I've also never had a retract pop out on the simulator but I've seen it on plenty of actual RC warbirds.

I'm not trying to be discouraging. You'll be flying that P-51 before you know it. I'm just saying that the simulator could lead to a false sense of security.

MikeL

My Feedback: (3)

You aren't the only one to have noticed this.

cold_reboot

My Feedback: (20)

If you really want to learn to "fly ahead" of your plane, go spend $99 bucks and get a cheap SkyFly. The control surfaces are small, it's underpowered, and over weight. I bought one with the express purpose of learning to fly it before I took the chance with a more expensive plane. The first thing I learned, Fly ahead of the SkyFly or gravity will easily smite thee. Plan the landings...because your probably only going to get one shot at it...because there's not enough power to pull you out of a jam. Turns are slow and the nose drops pretty significantly..... it reacts quickly to NOTHING...be it a tree....the ground...or the broad side of a barn. And contrary to what anyone says I CAN hit the broad side of a barn.....I proved it to myself on a poorly set up landing...twice. Hung it in the top of a tree first time I flew it....wing came down in several pieces tho. That first flight was a series of stalls and dives....stalls and dives. Had to climb the tree with a rope tied to my belt loop to pull up the expandable tree trimmer up to where I could climb to cut it down. Order a new wing for it...kept flying it and got pretty proficiant with it to where I no longer crashed it....by flying ahead of the plane like suggested here. Once I did finally decided it was time for the trainer, I kissed it Goodbye, told it I never expected it to come back, held my breath and hoped for the best. Still have the trainer all in one piece (a year old), no repairs (except a prop) and no crashes. I attribute that to the fact that the first thing I learned, as a necessity, was flying ahead of the plane.

beachbrada

My Feedback: (17)

The Sky FLy was also my first rc plane, I compare flying it to riding a bull.

Clay Walters

G5 sim?