psb667

A plug and play mini pulse xtr takes roughly 4.5 hrs for an expert builder to properly build. The arf version takes about 7 hrs. the cost of the arf is quite a bit higher but you get way more power out of it if you choose your parts right. As for expert technical labor $20 to $30 dollars per hour is rasonable for any tech to ask. People can clean ther own toilet drains and mow there own lawns and fix there own cars as well time is time. If this is your job well than good get paid if not then you cant cal yourself so rightous youd charge a friend. unless ya got no friends in wich case sorry i wrote this.

NorfolkSouthern

Wrong. It took me that amount of time to iron the covering alone on a Nexstar Select. I also had a Cessna that came with a bag that contained so many screws and tiny parts, I couldn't count them. And then there was all that hinging, epoxying, cutting, trimming, ironing, and there were some parts that I should have soldered, but I didn't have a soldering gun. Two hours?

In the modeling hobby, any skill is learned hands-on. There is no school that teaches the mechanics of building, inspection, fabrication, or repair. More often than not, people in the hobby learn from mistakes they've made on other projects and many times this burns a huge hole in their budgets. It happened to me. And some builders really do apply trades learned on the job to their so-called "hobby". The guy who I sent my projects spent 20 years as a millwright, so he knows exactly what he is doing. I don't!

And numerous tiny parts, some of which are non-standard and proprietary to that particular make and model. Or, if that part breaks you have to buy something universal, and make alterations to fit. More sanding, more shaping, more cutting, more gluing. 4-40 pushrods? Try pre-fabricated dowel rods with a non-standard rod at each end, that hooks up to a non-standard clevis. And if that one clevis breaks.... Oh, and then there's that odd engine mount and firewall with screws drilled and tapped. Can't find the part? Well, you get to build a whole new firewall!

Folks who telecommute do that all the time. It's still work, no matter how hard you try to sugarcoat it.

And this is EXACTLY why I sent a Rapture 40 with worn out covering, a half-built Decathlon 10, and a Hangar-9 Tango with a busted firewall and worn out fuselage to a professional builder. Yes, my planes were built solid but I have also been having problems keeping track of parts, tools, and supplies lately. I also had to move to another place, plus I have been doing other projects to supplement my income. I don't need the confusion of two fuel-saturated high-time airframes and an unfinished project to add to the rest of my issues. The builder estimated approximately 8 hours of time, plus materials. If I'm lucky and he finds them easy, he might reduce his $30.00 per hour rate to $20.00. Some folks are better at flying than building, and I am at least man enough to admit I am one of them. The amount I spend will be well worth it, because I get to stay in the hobby rather than sell all this equipment for a fraction of the time and money I put into it.

NorfolkSouthern

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

I really have to wonder why the OP would want to pay someone to assemble a 40 size Pulse XT ARF. If the OP doesn't have time to read and follow the instructions (OK, maybe a few hours involved), when are they going to find the time to fly it? Is the issue that the OP doesn't understand how the components go together? Then how are they going to understand how to check them pre-flight and make minor repairs if necessary?

Or perhaps the OP is really intending to buy ARFs and then assemble them and sell them, and is wondering how much of a markup to add?

Brad

Trisquire

Let's start another thread: "Fair price to pay for flying an ARF"

smithcreek

My Feedback: (25)

As long as this thread has gone way off track, a quick question for all the "I would build the plane for free and throw in my left nut without even being asked" responders. Clearly, as the OP said, the guy wanted to pay for the plane to be built because he had better things to do with his time.

So you make your offer of beer, pizza and work on the plane together. The guy turns around and says "Listen buddy, I'm not looking for a BFF, I just want my plane built, but if you're going to do it for free here's the box. When can I pick it up?" Do you still stick to your guns and do it for free, to "grow the hobby", "spread the joy", "share the experience" and all that good stuff?

Maybe the guy just wants a plane built and not feel like he owes anything more than the money he paid.

bassfisher

My Feedback: (21)

For me, every ARF is different. Trainers start at $100 and go up depending on the plane. The customer also pays for all glue and misc. parts & pieces. PNPs are still $100 minimum. Repairing a damaged plane is more costly for a customer, considering that sometimes, it takes twice as long to do a good repair than to build new. Again, I make sure the customer also pays for all glues, misc. parts & pieces, balsa, and covering. Some customers have frowned and tell me that I charging too much when I qoute them a price, but I tell them that the plane will be built correctly and will fly correctly. I also tell them that they are paying me for my skills and my time, if they don't like it, they can start out new like I did 30 years ago (NO ARFs back then). I give a first flight guarantee on new ARFs, that the plane will fly. If it does not fly correctly (i.e. trimmed for hands off flight), I fix it free of charge until it flys correctly. However, I am also the first to fly the plane. I do not build or repair for free, and that's only fair. At the flying field, I do not charge for my time in assisting and answering questions, or instructing. Needless to say, I do not make my living building or repairing model planes, but I don't work for free either.

Trisquire

Whoever he is, he doesn't strike me as growth material. Once he crashes the Pulse, he'll move on to the next diversion, something other than RC.

ArcticCatRider

My Feedback: (6)

Norfolk Southern,

I'm speaking as a highly experienced builder of both kits, and ARFs. We're talking in the "beginner" forum, putting together ARFs, presumably trainers.

I just put together an Avistar 40 for someone. In about 5 minutes I identified where all the little screws, clevises, washers, set screws, collars, etc, etc. belong.

This stuff is so second nature to me it's not even funny. I don't call it work. There are so few parts that are proprietary that it's not something I really consider. Not to mention an entire parts organizer I have filled with DuBro, and Great Planes, and Sig, and Sullivan hardware. I've never had to build a whole new fire-wall because I had to implement different hardware. I would never wait on a dowel rod style pushrod (I know exactly which ones you're talking about.) I'd fix or fashion one.

With that being said, I couldn't (in good conscience) charge someone $20 to $30 an hour to build an ARF. That's criminal. At that point I might as well ask them to pay for my health insurance, and pay into my 401K.

Minnreefer

I think it boils down to how valuable you think your time is. There are attornies that charge $300 and hour and probalby would rather work an extra hour then to spend 5 hours building an arf. If you agree or disagree with that, that is your choice.

For me, I don't have that much extra time with 2 small kids at home, if I could afford it, I probably would hire someone to build an arf for me. I don't have a good building area, so whenever I want to do something, it takes me 1/2 hour at least to set stuff up and take it down, so a 10 hour project would take me at least 15 hours just in extra set up time and starting over every night. I enjoy building but I also enjoy flying, it is a give and take.

No one can tell me how valuable my time is, and they have to decide how valuble theit time is.

Just my humble 2 cents worth

Jon

homeboy61

My friend andy always put mine together for 30 bucks and he always maidens them says he gets to fly alot of different planes that way

ohnoucdat

My Feedback: (16)

Good to see that most here give of there time and experience. To think anyone would charge $100 to put an Arf trainer together for anyone is crazy, specially a new guy just starting out. Glad I fly with a group who are more into promoting this great hobby ,and not for making a dollar off it.

xtraflyr

My Feedback: (11)

I have enough of my own stuff to build,I already stay up till 2am building my own! If someone wants an ARF built(not a trainer) it's going to cost the price of the ARF+supplies. If it's a Trainer I'll help the person out but I won't assemble it for him. I'll just stay close and give them some hints. The assembling isn't hard the setting the radio up properly ATV's/Dual Rates,etc, that is the involved part.

Some newbies just need that reassurance that what they are thinking about doing is correct. After the first assembly the next plane they'll be more positive about what their doing!

If the newbie doesn't have time to build a trainer you'll almost never or never see them at the field.

FrankWilliams

My Feedback: (13)

When I'm not at work, my time off is my time. If someone wants me to perform a service during my time then they are going to pay what I feel that time is worth. $20-$30/hour I feel is reasonable for my time that I could be flying or building one of the two dozen kits that I own. If you don't like that price, then build it yourself and use up your time. Life is short, I don't want to spend time working for other people and not be compensated for it, that's like working over-time for free.

-Frank

FrankWilliams

My Feedback: (13)

I'm not trying to make money off building for other people. I quote prices with the expectation/hope that they'll rethink the option and build/repair it themselves. Last thing I want to do is build someone else's plane, I have plenty of my own that need to be built. I always offer free advice.

-Frank

xtraflyr

My Feedback: (11)

[/quote]


I'm not trying to make money off building for other people. I quote prices with the expectation/hope that they'll rethink the option and build/repair it themselves. Last thing I want to do is build someone else's plane, I have plenty of my own that need to be built. I always offer free advice.

-Frank
[/quote]
Us Frank's must think alike!

ArcticCatRider

My Feedback: (6)

I'm a salaried salesmen. I work overtime for free every week of the year. I used to work maintenance, and was compensated for overtime.

Let me know if someone ever takes you up on the $20-$30 hour building bid....I've got a bridge to sell them. Hobby shop employees don't even make that kind of money.

Popriv

I'm the OP, WOW! what varied responses.
The fellow who asked me about putting together a pulse XT for him said he has been flying for 3 years (longer than me).
We didnt get into details because this conversation occured during a fun fly I was participating in.

I asked what a fair price would be because My time is valuable enough that I couldnt seeing paying someone to build an ARF.

If one of the guys I usually fly with wanted help I would help for free but If someone wants to hand me a box and pick up a finished plane then I would want $20 - $30 per hour for my time... I guess if they dont mind spending the money, I'd build it.

pop

FrankWilliams

My Feedback: (13)

Many people have, more than I've expected (maybe I should raise my prices to weed more people out). You're right, I don't make $20/hour at my regular hobby shop job, but I do make $30/hour as a personal trainer. Personal training is a fickle business and during the summer, with the current economy is poor. When I decided on my prices I asked myself what I thought my free time was worth. With my free time I could build/fly my own airplanes, go see a movie, swim at the river or have sex with my wife. These are things I would much rather do over building someone else's plane or fixing someone else's car. My typical customer isn't looking to have a trainer put together, it's usually a sport or aerobatic plane and they're an intermediate pilot who just doesn't want to do the work. I came up with a pricing system more to stop people pestering me...

Typical conversation when I didn't do stuff for other people
Customer: "How much would you charge me to build this plane?"
Me: "I don't build planes for other people"
Customer: "Come on, please? I'll pay you"
Me: "No thanks"
Customer: "Why not?"
Me: "Because I have my own stuff to build"
Customer: "Please?"
Me: "No thanks"
Customer: "Please?"
Me: "No thanks"
Customer: "you suck"

Typical conversation now
Customer: "How much would you charge me to build this plane?"
Me: "$200 plus expenses"
Customer: "Hmmm... I'll think about it"
Conclusion: They either build it themselves or they decide to pay me. Either way, the conversation is shorter and everyone leaves happy.

-Frank

DreamingTree1027

My Feedback: (5)

This is an interesting thread. I think that the people saying they would do it for free need to consider, once you build a plane for one person who and how many others will want the same. The way I see it 30 is way too much 20 is high but doable. Of course the person can just say no I will have someone else build it or I will build it. I couldn't see why anyone would want someone else to build their arf until I read this thread. Someone said they don't have an appropriate shop, and the bunch of other reasons. I for one move around a lot. I have been in IL twice, OH and PA in the last year and a half. That is a lot of moving around and transporting workshop stuff. But I am lucky i guess, the one thing I do have is space.

As to the OP question I would say $150 maybe less. I basically won't know until someone asks me to build a plane for them i guess. I do enjoy putting planes together, but there is a difference between mine and his. Also great planes or Hangar 9 arf will go together well and the supplied hardware can be used more than an off brand arf. I think I would enjoy the opportunity to build and fly many different planes but I would want some kind of $ for my efforts. Another thing is if I built a plane for someone else I would be a lot more careful and would probably be afraid to "try" something I would on one of my own planes. No cutting corners or trusting it is good on someone elses.

Just adding my change

ArcticCatRider

My Feedback: (6)

Frank,

I didn't realize you worked at a hobby shop. You would get the question a lot more than I ever would, making your method of madness justifiable.

I'll do a couple a year for people....I don't have a couple a week asking like you might. But for me...I'll do it for an appreciative person for free.

I'll be 26 next week. There's about 3 other members my age at the field....before I know it I'm going to be the only one flying. So..pretty much anyone who comes to me looking for help..provided they're not an ingrate....will get it. I don't want my hobby to die.

DreamingTree,

I realize what you mean...but people aren't exaclty knocking down my door asking me to build them planes. I'm not really worried about word getting out that I'm the chump in the neighborhood who helps people out for free.....just aren't enough people interested. Wish there were.

Bax

My Feedback: (11)

That reminds me of the time that a friend of mine, who's a magician, told me what he says to people who ask how he did a particular magic trick. He tells them that he had to purchase the trick from the magician who has the rights to it, and that it was $200.00. I asked him what he would do if someone ponied-up the $200.00. "Show him how to do the trick," was his reply.

smithcreek

My Feedback: (25)

So the guy that the OP described, the guy that said he has better things to do with his time than putting a plane together, you would build it for him? He has better things to do with his time than put his own plane together, and you don't have anything better to do with your time than put his plane together for him, while he does something fun?

psb667

I have a question? Is this theoretical build for a new hobbiest or for a experienced flier who really dosnt have time also it should be considered that some people cant build stuff they just dont have the ability. $20 to $30 per hour is standard for almost all skilled craftsmen. Building a model that flys is skilled labor it takes experience skill and tallent.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

$20 to $30 per hour is what apprentices in the building trades and what laborers make. Skilled craftsmen make much more than that. Don't forget that TIME, YOUR TIME....is your most valuable possession. Once it is spent, you can never get it back. Think twice before getting played for a sucker, always.
Building planes so you can keep flying buddies around is the road to nowhere...you won't be able to build planes fast enough.
$300 would be rock bottom for a plane that is RTF. Let the lazy couch potato with the remote in one hand and a sack of chips in the other decide if he wants to pay a fair price to play our game.

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

Well said, and that was what I was trying to get across with my original reply.. way back when.

It's one thing to offer to help someone build or assemble (your choice of words.. in this case the original intent I beleive is for an ARF so let's go with assemble) a plane for you. I've asked for help and gotten it, free of charge from fellow club members (one in particular helped me trememdously with some of my "assembly" projects, especially when I wasn't quite sure about what the instructions meant with certain terms.

But, that's different from what the original poster meant. As I said, the local hobby shop owner, which recently closed down his operation [] , by the way, would put together an ARF and hang it from the ceiling. He did it mostly to have "props" (no pun intended) for people to see as they came in to shop around. He would sell just about anything he built and hung. He added his build time into the final price and always got it. His attitude was "I built it for display. If someone wants it, they will pay the display price or I just won't sell it". And, as I said, he always got his price.

Consider that he was pretty much a "professional" builder. His work was impecable.. flawless.. immaculate. We even had him at one of our club events where he was sitting in the background, putting together an ARF to show the public what was involved in the build. And you know, he sold that pretty much on the spot when he was about 1/2 done (and that was a 6 hour process, two hours spent ironing out the covering). He finished it later on at the shop and the guy picked it up about a week later and was pleased as could be with the end product, AND was willing and happy to pay the price.

Hey, you decide what's good for you. If you want to "assemble" them yourself, then knock yourself out. If you want someone else to do it for you, then you have to be willing to pay the price without whining about it.

CGr.