Beginners Beginners in RC start here for help.

"Welding" Aluminum

Reply
Old 08-13-2009, 10:45 PM
  #1
MetallicaJunkie
Thread Starter
 
MetallicaJunkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Donna, TX
Posts: 5,429
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default "Welding" Aluminum

Durafix [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jijW310xvp4[/youtube] is exactly what im looking for,,,,,will this work the same as the aluminum welding rods from Harbor Freight Tools?? http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=44810
MetallicaJunkie is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-13-2009, 11:38 PM
  #2
Alex7403
 
Alex7403's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: New york, NY
Posts: 1,594
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: RE:

Not every aluminum can be welded!
most Aluminum alloys that you have access to like windows profiles 2024T6 or 6061T6 for machining are not suitable for welding or heat treatment.
Aluminum for welding and heat treatment are from series 3xxx, 5xxx.
I'm not %100 sure but it makes sense that the landing gear made of 2024T6 alloy because of its mechanical properties.
beverage cans made of 3003H Aluminum alloy that is why they can be welded.

Alex
Alex7403 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 12:13 AM
  #3
MetallicaJunkie
Thread Starter
 
MetallicaJunkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Donna, TX
Posts: 5,429
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: RE:

hmmm good post...anyone have experience with Harbor Freight welding rods, and would they work on the kin of allo that Bisson muffler, slimline mufflers are made of?
MetallicaJunkie is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 12:26 AM
  #4
sportrider_fz6
 
sportrider_fz6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Pueblo West, CO
Posts: 646
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: RE:

I wouldn't necessarily call that "welding" it's more like brazing. I don't see how it would have any structural integrity. without melting the base metal there would be no penetration and no strength. but for the application you are thinking I think it would work good.
sportrider_fz6 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 12:38 AM
  #5
MetallicaJunkie
Thread Starter
 
MetallicaJunkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Donna, TX
Posts: 5,429
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: RE:


Quote:
ORIGINAL: sportrider_fz6

I wouldn't necessarily call that ''welding''....................................... ....................... but for the application you are thinking I think it would work good.

thats what i want to hear
MetallicaJunkie is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 05:25 AM
  #6
bingo field
 
bingo field's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Mt. Morris, NY
Posts: 1,695
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: RE:

That's why I bought some. I may need to take a little slice off of a corner of a pitts muffler, and fill it in to make it fit without rubbing the inside of a cowl. I have tested it out on a yard roller, it seems to work there, and that is steel. You do have to use the stainless brush to clean the area with to make it stick. I would also recommend using a couple of sticks to get the "technique" down before trying to get a usable fix for what you want to do, if you are interested in making the fix cosmetically appealing.
bingo field is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 07:17 AM
  #7
TFF
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 4,169
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE:

Its a braise or a solder; it has been around a while and has uses. The question on a muffler is the temp on the muffler low enough not to re-melt.
TFF is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 07:59 AM
  #8
hugger-4641
 
hugger-4641's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: McKenzie, TN
Posts: 1,869
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: RE:

6061 alloy can be welded and heat treated, but the temper will no longer be T6. The T6 temper is attained from an "artificial aging" process that is basically a low temperature heat treat with no quench. The temper wouldn't be critical in an application like a small engine muffler. I don't know for sure, but I would suspect that the muffler in question probably is 6061 as it is a cheaper alloy than 2024 and is used in a lot of forging and low tensile strength applications. It can also be "over aged" to achieve corrosion resistance, which is why it is used in a lot of aluminum automotive wheels. Let us know what happens if you do try to weld the muffler, I'm curious about these rods myself.
hugger-4641 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 01:03 PM
  #9
Gray Beard
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hemderson, NV
Posts: 14,371
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: RE:


Quote:
ORIGINAL: sportrider_fz6

I wouldn't necessarily call that ''welding'' it's more like brazing. I don't see how it would have any structural integrity. without melting the base metal there would be no penetration and no strength. but for the application you are thinking I think it would work good.
I questioned that myself but all I would like to do is replace some broken pipes on some old mufflers without having to take them to a welding chop.
I didn't see an address or phone number for this product on the video.
Gray Beard is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 01:12 PM
  #10
Allfat
 
Allfat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: St Paul, OR
Posts: 400
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE:

In the technical sense of the term, that is not welding, but brazing. However, it looks like it could be a fine product for doing small repairs to things like mufflers. I think it would work great. Try it out and report back.
Allfat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 01:23 PM
  #11
Flyin Beagle
 
Flyin Beagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 365
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: RE:

The product that is sold at harbor Freight is called alumaweld here is a link to the manufacturer.

http://www.alumiweld.com/

I bought some and played around with it a little on some scrap aluminum (no idea what type alloy) to see how it works. It makes an extremely strong joint, and I would think it would work great for reparing a muffler. Just get the metal as clean as you possibly can.
I don't know the temperature standards for this material, but I would venture to say that if your engine is getting hot enough to make this stuff let loose you have a lot bigger problems on your hands than a missing exhaust pipe. Probably more along the lines of spontaneous combustion of you cowl and firewall.
Flyin Beagle is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 01:28 PM
  #12
blvdbuzzard
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: high deserts, CA
Posts: 3,592
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE:

I do not know if the Durafix rods are the same as HF. I have the Durafix and they work VERY well. I broke off a post on a aluminum head. I did a little grinding and used the rods with a Burnzomatic propane and oxygen setup. It has been holding for 3 years and 40,000 miles.

I have used the rods to fix a bunch of stuff. Brush well with a stainless wire wheel and braze away.

When the rods have cooled, they are harder then the cast aluminum. It drills and taps well too.


Dru.
blvdbuzzard is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 03:08 PM
  #13
MetallicaJunkie
Thread Starter
 
MetallicaJunkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Donna, TX
Posts: 5,429
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: RE:

Update* the Alumiweld from Harborfreight rods worked great !
MetallicaJunkie is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 03:26 PM
  #14
jib
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Covington, WA
Posts: 505
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE:

What kind of heat did you use?

Jack
jib is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 03:44 PM
  #15
MetallicaJunkie
Thread Starter
 
MetallicaJunkie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Donna, TX
Posts: 5,429
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: RE:

a cheap propane torch from autozone
MetallicaJunkie is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 03:57 PM
  #16
bingo field
 
bingo field's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Mt. Morris, NY
Posts: 1,695
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: RE:

The package says its workable at 730 degrees, so far, I haven't had any heat related failures... Get the engine that hot, you will be trailing smoke, I think..
bingo field is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 04:05 PM
  #17
jib
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Covington, WA
Posts: 505
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: RE:


Quote:
ORIGINAL: MetallicaJunkie

a cheap propane torch from autozone
\

Excellent, thanks,

Jack
jib is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 08:03 PM
  #18
j.duncker
Moderator
 
j.duncker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Sailing in the Eastern Caribbean
Posts: 3,749
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE:

I used a similar product from Techno Weld [link=http://www.techno-weld.com/about.html]CLICKY[/link]

Look at their instructions, they show how to use a stainless steel rod to break the oxidation layer and draw the melt pool to where you want it.

I used it to repair broken ali castings as well as making silencers. Good stuff and very easy to use.
j.duncker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2009, 09:42 PM
  #19
canvasback
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: auburn, KS
Posts: 8
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE:

A few months age I built a muffler using 1" sq tube alum and 5/16" alum pipe for a little os25. KISSworks and no cracks yet. Makes a lower pitch sound now and pretty quiet.
canvasback is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2009, 05:19 AM
  #20
doubledee
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Callahan, FL
Posts: 592
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: RE:

Used the rod from HF on both Bisson and Slimline mufflers, works great. However, the surface to be welded must be squeaky clean.
doubledee is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2009, 03:55 PM
  #21
davidyat
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Littlerock, CA
Posts: 50
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE:

I've seen this stuff. I bought 2 different items from 2 different suppliers. All said it would work. Yea, it worked on a soda can. But I was trying to fix some busted aluminum on an antique 1974 Yamaha MX motorcycle engine and the stuff doesn't work there. Japanese aluminum from that era must be something different. If I'm doing something wrong, I'm all ears as to how to make it work. I was using an oxy-acetylene torch that I have.
davidyat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-15-2009, 07:45 PM
  #22
combatpigg
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 19,891
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: RE:

It's worked well for making a header for a .15 engine, with lots of flights on it. I tried making a header for a .35 and it failed within a few flights. The .35 must have just crossed the high temp limit.
combatpigg is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2009, 10:12 AM
  #23
Flyin Beagle
 
Flyin Beagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 365
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: RE:

My understanding is that is does not work as well on thicker peices. I assume it has something to do with the ammount of heat that is required to raise the temeperature of a larger mass of metal and keep it raised. For the small stuff we typically work on in RC this is not a problem with propane, but like davidyat is finding a larger engine block is very hard to thoroughly heat even with an oxy/acetylene torch. This stuff also appears to have a high amount of surface tension, and therefore does not flow into a cracks very well. You have to grind out the crack you are trying to repair, and then fill the entire void with a puddle of this stuff.
Flyin Beagle is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 08-16-2009, 07:32 PM
  #24
jib
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Covington, WA
Posts: 505
Gallery
My Gallery
Models
My Models
Ratings
My Feedback
Default RE: RE:


Quote:
ORIGINAL: combatpigg

It's worked well for making a header for a .15 engine, with lots of flights on it. I tried making a header for a .35 and it failed within a few flights. The .35 must have just crossed the high temp limit.
I'd suspect it cracked. Take a good look at the place where it seperated.

Jack
jib is offline  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:49 PM.