shd3920

Why do they not make a needle valve adjustment tool much like a nut driver (pictured) that you can adjust the valve at a safe distance? Maybe someone should invent one, they'd be rich.

ro347

My Feedback: (13)

You could make your needle valve fit a small socket wrench if you really wanted. Get a nut large enough or bore one out to fit over the needle valve end, glue in place by whatever method...presto!!! Or your could slot the end with a dremel to work with a flat or phillips head (i just make this stuff up as I go, but sounds like it could work. )

Or you could just add the normal extension by using a length of push-rod with a small bend on the end.

carrellh

I'm not sure anyone could get rich by doing this. It might be a good feature for new engines but I doubt most people would buy it for existing engines. I have an ASP two stroke, straight front mounted needle, and I know I would not spend money to change it.

Thunder Tiger, and some of the new OS engines, use angled needle valves to help with the issue of being close to the prop. Some use remote needles. My four stroke engines have the carb on the back.

Something I have seen. Most needles hve a little hole in the end for an extension, and a set screw to hold it in place. Drill the hole big enough to slide in a #2 screw and lock it in place with the set screw. Then use a ball driver or nutdriver (depending on screw type) to adjust. Costs a few minutes and the price of a screw.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

I have ground the threads off a small hex head screw and put it into the needle valve's extension hole so that you can use a ball driver to turn it

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

I've had 2C engines mounted inside cowls where the HS needle valve didn't even extend outside the cowl. If I needed a change to the setting, I shut off the engine to do it.

Really people, you may need to change the setting once when you first fire up, and often not even then unless there have been big changes in setup or atmospheric conditions

Few things tick me off as much as chronic needle tuners.

Mr67Stang

These tend to be people that think they know how to tune an engine but are to hard headed to ask for help. I pay close attention to them and when they say the engine is junk, I give them $20 bucks for it (if they avoided burning it up) and fly it trouble free next weekend after they spent $300 converting to electric. So, I like those guys.

k3 valley flyer

My Feedback: (18)

Just saw a tip in one of the magazines on how to fix needle valve so it has a socket head, take an EZ keeper and insert into the needle vale and fasten with set screw. Then use red loctite and put the socket head screw into the EZ keeper.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I do this too, kinda. I drill and tap the hole for 4-40 then just screw in a hex screw. I do this for cowled engines and I also use a fired 22 shell. I drill out the shell case and run the 4-40 through it and tighten it down, I have to cut the screw to fit though so the shell is tight. This way when I slip the hex head wrench in that dark cowl it's a hard target to miss and the wrench doesn't vibrate out. For the low end I went to Sear's and bought some very long screw drivers, I have several inches between my hand and the prop.

opjose

But what is the "question of ethics"?

Villa

Hi shd3920
Are you referring to the Low Speed Needle (LSN) valve that is mounted on the carburetor of engines like the 46FX and 46AX engines? Adjusting this valve with the engine running is very dangerous. The others above I believe are referring the the High Speed Needle (HSN) valve. On the engines I refer to, this valve is mounted at the back of the engine and presents little or no danger from the prop.

Jim Thomerson

I ordinarily don't adjust the needle with the engine running. When I do, I have a leather glove on. I very seldom adjust the needle and have flown for several months at different altitudes with no need to touch the needle. I am buildng an airplane where the needle will be cowled in, and I appreciate the comments on how to get to it.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Sounded like the OP was asking about the high end. Depends on the engine but I too use a glove and a very long screw driver for the low end but I adjust them running. Only time I have to adjust the high ends on my glow engines is when the temp. starts to drop a lot. Here we tune for 100++++ degrees so when it starts getting into the 60s they start to need a click or two to fatten them up, by the time it is in the 30s I will be out on the high end about four clicks then the engines are good until the temps. rise again. Doesn't seem to effect the low ends at all??

bkdavy

My Feedback: (1)

From my perspective, I'd rather have a short needle valve to adjust that is angled slightly back from the prop. No need for long extensions. Long extensions just get your hand out toward the outside of the prop, where the blade speed is much higher. Closer to the center, lower velocity, fatter curve on the prop, less hazard. Check it at the beginning of the day, and good to go. You can make it complicated and add additional parts, but sometimes its better to just keep it as simple as possible.

Brad

shd3920

The needle valve on the left of the engine, whichever that is low or high speed don't know terms.
I simply enlarged the opening at the end of a scrap tube I had laying around to safely reach in to adjust the valve. I have always seen this adjusted with the engine running, and I am too paranoid of the harm that could result so I feel safer having something to reach in to adjust.

shd3920

No idea whatsoever, misuse of words I guess. Guess it was not necessary in the title [sm=bananahead.gif]

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Personally I don't like getting anything metal or any other tools that close to a spinning prop. It's too easy for the end of that tool to wander into the back of the prop and then it's going to be propelled right into your hand. IMHO it's a lot easier to loose control of the end of that long rod than it is to let your hand wander into the prop. It's just my personal opinion from being around these engines a lot but I think you have made the situation more dangerous with your setup than if you simply adjust the needle valve with your finger. You're free to do what you want, but I personally wouldn't use a setup such as that as I don't think it's safe.

Needle valves such as this can be safely adjusted with your hand as long as you adopt a few safety procedures. The biggest of this is to NEVER let your hand or fingers to get any further forward than the needle valve itself. When I make these adjustements I come in from behind the engine with my hand even with the fuselage of the plane. Then I use my thumb and forefinger to turn the needle valve. My hand or finger never get anywhere near the prop this way.

Ken

Villa

Hi shd3920
As I mentioned above, I am only familiar with OS engines. I feel sure that the valve in your photos is the High Speed Needle valve. The OS engines now have that needle valve located remotely, at the rear of the engine. It works great there and is far away from the prop. The Low Speed Needle valve on my OS engines is on the other side of the carburetor, as seen in your photos. That valve rarely needs adjustment and I usually adjust it with the engine stopped because I have to insert a very small flat screw driver thru a hole and then engage the small screw head on the needle valve. I'm experimenting with a tool for that so I can SAFELY adjust it with the engine running. In the old days I had engines with the HSN valve located like yours. I adjusted it carefully with my fingers by standing behind the wing of the plane, with the plane safely sitting on an Engine Starting Safety Stand.

N429EM

The procedure RCKen has described is right on.
The second picture you have posted is an accident waiting to happen.
The only time you should, ever, reach over a spinning prop, is to remove the glow starter. And, that's only if your plane is firmly restrained.

BTW, you are adjusting the High Speed Needle (HSN).
With all of the JBweld on the other side of the carburetor is it possible for you to adjust the Low Speed Needle (LSN)?

EJ

andrew66

On my webra, the high speed needle has a bolt in it so I can use a ball driver. I had the ball driver pop out, and my hand came pretty damn close to the prop. Since then, I just use the "standard" method that RCKen described. The biggest thing, is to slow down, and really focus on what you are doing. Most prop accidents happen when people are talking, frustrated (usually engine induced) or havent had a close call yet, and havent learned to truly respect that spinning meat saw on the front.

shd3920

You and RCKen make a great point . . . SAFETY FIRST . . . and I will not use a tool for the adjustment.

I would never reach over a spinning prop in the manner shown, that was only for the purpose of the photo to show what I thought was a good plan of action.

The carburator/throttle arm broke off and the only thing that would hold is JBweld. And yes, the LSN needle screw moves freely, was very careful in applying the JBweld.

Tom Nied

"The only time you should, ever, reach over a spinning prop, is to remove the glow starter. And, that's only if your plane is firmly restrained."

And I'm trying to break this bad habit. Think about it, even with a restrained plane, it's not a good idea either.

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_90...tm.htm#9070204
If this is the problem you were dealing you didn't need any JB weld. A center punch should have been used to "peen" the ring back onto the throttle arm. The arm should have been replaced and then the punch use in the old punch areas to spread the metal out to hold throttle arm on. While not the best way to attach a throttle arm it is still a good way of doing, and allows for easily taking off the throttle arm if the carb needs to be disassembled for whatever reason. Unfortunately now your "fix" is permenant and you will never be able to get the carb apart if you need to do anything to it.

I'm not trying to be harsh here, but rather just trying to point out there the proper way it should have been done. Unfortunately it won't help you on this application, but the knowledge can help you for the next time you have to deal with something like this.

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

I,ve made up lots of main needle extensions Many older needles had a nub for a solder on tube and of course the modern method with a wire or allen locked in a set screw-However-only long enough to clear any cowling and no more.

I do not want anyone around me approaching any running engine with any long object, screwdriver, socket or old piece of tube I don,t care I don,t want to look at the blood.

rednekk58

peice of flexiblle cable inserted into the hs needle with set screw. flex cable will give you an extra margin of error. bend a small "L" in it. reach from behind, and ALWAYS stay out of the prop arc!!!

CGRetired

My Feedback: (1)

The newest OS AX series engines have the HS needle adjustment right on the carb, but the engines come with a needle valve adjuster extender. It's a piece of thick cable (thick meaning 1/32" or so) that fits exactly right in the hole in the needle valve and is secured with a set screw. The needle valve is angled to the rear of the engine so that with the extender, it is easy to get to and keeps your fingers out of harm's way.

The length can be adjusted to your comfort level then the knob is secured to the end of that cable. See picture.

CGr.