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Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

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Old 01-14-2010, 10:38 AM
  #1
Salinas Hawk
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Default Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

Hello everybody
Ok, I know most of the general arguments about the modes. But I also know that I'm a total newbie, so I'd appreciate some advice/knowledge. (This site is awesome)

1. I'm set on teaching myself to fly, so finding a mode 1 flight instructor is not an issue.
2. I plan on getting my pilot's license. (full scale)
3. I believe that mode 1 makes more sense for rc planes (separation of aileron and elevator seems more precise), and mode 2 makes more sense for helis (separation would make flying more difficult rather than more precise. Note: I can't fly didley, so what do I know?
4. I got a Hitec 6channel, and swapped it over to mode1, but I still can't even land a trainer on my Real Flight, so its not too late to go back.
5. I want to be a Sunday flyer, but eventually I plan to get into giant scale 3D and Pylon racing (I was blown away at the Madera air races). I plan to compete, but winning is not important.

I would love to be the cool guythat flysmode 1 in the US, but dang I don't wanna be an outsider. Plus, if I teach some kid to fly mode 1 someday, I might be doing him or her a disservice.

I'm getting serious about learning to fly. I've got the time and some money, so I need to commit one way or another.
I'm in a club of great guys (SAM Salinas Area Modelers)that fly mode 2 exclusively, but I'm keeping an open mind. Although I'm not rich, I can afford the crashesthat will come with teaching myself.
Any advice would be much appreciated.

Is it possible to learn both?

Respectfully, Salinas Hawk
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Old 01-14-2010, 11:20 AM
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EloyM
 
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Default RE: Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

You already know the most important feature of Mode One flying - the separation of the two main pitch and roll controls. It is specially important in racing - close to the ground and high speed.
A slight error one way or the other and your race is over. If you have followed racing history, you know that a very high percentage of the successful racers are Mode Oner's.
Being in the minority, you will be subject to criticism. Consider the source - if you haven't already figured it out, note that there are two classes of flyers - those that pilot an R/C airplane, and those that point it.
Your interest indicates you will be a pilot - good luck. Eloy
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Old 01-14-2010, 11:58 AM
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Salinas Hawk
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Default RE: Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

Thanks EloyM. Your post was very unbiased, but encouraged me tro stick with my Mode 1 ambitions.
Respectfully, Salinas Hawk
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Old 01-14-2010, 12:27 PM
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Default RE: Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

this interests me also. ive been seeing mode 1 and mode 2, and didnt know which way to go. i had decided on mode 1. getting this info, as i do want to compete one day, completely makes my mind up. good question, and great answer. mode 1 it is!
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Old 01-14-2010, 12:58 PM
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Default RE: Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

I have never flown mode 1 before, but your mind can get used to to anything you train it to. All full scale airplanes are based more on the mode 2 concept, pitch and roll in one place. If aerobatic performers and state of the art military jets use the technology, it must be fine for use in tight situations.

Mode 1 will make you the oddball out - but that is alright. You might want to work on both with an unbiased opinion and see which you like more. Perhaps try to land your sim under both to see if there is a natural tendency in one direction.

I believe that as you get your full scale ticket, you'll find yourself thinking in terms of pitch and bank on one stick so naturally, it'll carry over to RC in a more "mode 2" fashion. For example, when you roll into a steep turn, you need to increase the pitch a bit to compensate for the drop in vertical lift. Later, whether RC or full, every time you bank over a good bit, you'll find you are adding back pressure to the stick. Sure, mode 1 does the same thing, but you will be thinking in terms of operating two separate controls to do it.

Just random thoughts - do what you like. Its a hobby, after all.
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Old 01-14-2010, 01:08 PM
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Default RE: Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

First: In mode 2, the right stick is just like the stick in a fighter plane, or Piper Cub, or any other plane that has a stick. Seems to me to be the most logical choice, especially for someone who plans to fly full-scale.

Second: By flying the same as most others in the sport (Mode 2), you will someday be able to teach others in the most popular method
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Old 01-14-2010, 01:19 PM
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Default RE: Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

I can't give you any advise since you have apparently already made your decision. I guess if mode 1 was better the majority would use it. That should tell you something. Should be interesting when you start flying full scale if you become a mode 1 flyer.
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Old 01-14-2010, 01:46 PM
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Default RE: Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

Hello Tedmno
I haven't made my choice. The purpose of my post was to get somebody to talk me out of taking the mode 1 route (ev en though it seems more logical). You just might do that.

Do you fly full scale planes? Whether you do or not, I'm not trying to punk you out by asking that question. What I really want to know is; If i fly rc planes on mode 1, will that screw up orientationwise if I try full scale flight training.

Thank you very much, Ed Brown

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Old 01-14-2010, 02:13 PM
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Default RE: Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

Salinas- I see you did start a thread. I gave you my opinion in the other..sorry.
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Old 01-14-2010, 02:14 PM
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Salinas Hawk
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Default RE: Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

By the way, the majority uses mode 1. It is only the US on mode 2.

All of Europe and Asiauses mode 1.

It seemes to me that mode 1 is way better for RC airplanes, but Mode2 is c loser to the real thing in a full scale stick plane; thus the controversy.

Think of operating a M-16 A2 Service Rifle on a Play Station 3. After five years in the USMC, I can tell you that it is much different in real life. However, PS3 is awesome. See the dilemma????

I would really love to hear from a full scale pilot that flies RC.

Respectfully, Salinas Hawk
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Old 01-14-2010, 02:21 PM
  #11
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Default RE: Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

Here are my thoughts for you. If we are right handed we generally do things almost automatically with our right hand or at least tend to learn things that way. Since our main basic controls for aircraft are pitch and roll, elev.(pitch) ailerons (roll) it will usually become instinctive to control them with our right hand, our brain functions that way. yes full scale aircraft are controlled pretty much in that mode. Rudder are on the pedals, throttle on lever on left side of cockpit. Why anyone considers it more logical any other way stumps me. Most times when you roll you will likely input some elevator as well so do it together with same hand and the precision that your right hand is most capable of. Once you have learned to f ly reasonably well these control actions become automatic, no time for thinking. Learn with mode 2 you will be glad you did.
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Old 01-14-2010, 02:29 PM
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Default RE: Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

Just the same Bonified Wingnut; your point (from the beginner trhread)is so blaring correct, I may just abandon mode 1. However, I sincerely think mode 1 is superior.

I'm a newvie, but I undersdtand the theories very well. ^^%#@^%$#^%$#. I',m not sure what to do. Thus the post

Respectfully, Salinas Hawk
aka, Ed Brown
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Old 01-14-2010, 02:35 PM
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Default RE: Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

For what it's worth, here's another vote cast for learning in Mode 2.

I don't see why Mode 1 is "superior" for R/C planes. At least Mode 2 has the advantage of logically being similar to a full size plane's stick.
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Old 01-14-2010, 02:47 PM
  #14
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Default RE: Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

The English drive on the wrong side of the road, but I would not try it here. We have a mode one flyer in our club and would love to let him fly some of our planes. He just can't do it, no more then I can fly his. Dennis
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Old 01-14-2010, 02:48 PM
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Default RE: Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

We have two mode 1 pilots (father and son) in our club. They are excellent pilots, 3D, IMAC, Pasttern, etc. but not better than all of the others.

One of our mode 2 pilots won the Masters division F3A pattern competition at the AMA Nationals several years ago.

It is 100% personal preference. One mode is not "better" than the other.
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Old 01-14-2010, 02:50 PM
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Default RE: Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

If you desire to be the best flyer in your club, you need to fly Mode 1. Most Mode 2 flyers fly Mode 2 because it is like the full scale airplanes. But we are not flying full scale airplanes. When you see a Mode 1 flyer take note as to whether he is or is not the best and smoothest flyer at the field that day.

If you plan to fly pylon, Mode 1 is far better. It is much easier to rotate the wings and then pull elevator around the pylon without moving the ailerons unintentionally.

One of the best model flyers I have ever know, Steve Ellison of Oregon, started with Mode 2 and switched to Mode 1 when he started flying pylon. He never looked back.

Also the very best model pilot I have ever seen fly flies Mode 1, Ted White of Arizona. He never won major contest like the Nationals because he did not practice or commit to it.

Be the expert at your field - fly Mode 1. Don't worry about what the others are flying, you'll be out flying them anyway.

Ralph White
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Old 01-14-2010, 02:50 PM
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Default RE: Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

I flew with my thumbtips (like a video game) for about the first week on a sim when I was learning. Then I saw some video of some really good heli pilots holding the sticks between their thumb and forfinger. I stopped doing it my way and taught myself thier way. I figured they knew more then I (another topic). It was hard at first but I wouldn't go back. Now I hold game controllers like my TX. Again my point is learn now.

I have a friend that has 1 arm that I want to teach to fly. I don't think that would be possible(for me) in Mode 1.

On another note I got Realfight G5 yesterday. Nice... their getting closer.-BW
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Old 01-14-2010, 03:01 PM
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Default RE: Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

The separation of aileron and elevator seems superior to me, more precise; and the rest of the world swears by it.

However, if the real thing (fighters and sport planes) use a mode 2 configuration, then the argument is seemingly over. Mode 2 isKing.

But please consider arcade flight vs. full scale flight. Also, how do these skills cross over.

I mean...I respect RC car driver skills, but let's be honest, Daytona 500 stock car drivers are not on this forum asking rc drivers for advice.

Is there really a connection between rc flight and full-ized pilotingv skills? I haven't the slightesst idea; thus the post,

Respectfully, Salinas Hawk
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Old 01-14-2010, 03:04 PM
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Default RE: Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

Try scratching your nose while you fly in mode 1, theres a lot of insects here in MI.-BW
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Old 01-14-2010, 03:07 PM
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Default RE: Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

The only connnection I know is that full scale flying seems to require a re-action time of about 1/10 that of an RC model. In other words RC models don't give you a whole lot of time to think about what you are doing or planning to do.
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Old 01-14-2010, 03:50 PM
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Default RE: Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

Hi,

I fly Mode 1 and can fly Mode 2 if I really concentrate, but it is not natural for me simply because I originally learned on Mode 1.

I'll try and give you some things you may want to consider.

In the USA and Canada most pilots fly Mode 2, so if you want assistance in learning, Mode 2 is better.

Mode 1 transmitters are not common in the USA and Canada, so when you want to buy, or sell, transmitters your better with Mode 2.

Mode 1 and Mode 2 transmitters can fly with each other through a "buddy box" cord and will automatically configure the sticks and channels to work properly with each other (that is, the same transmitter makes), so this will not be a problem if Mode 1 and Mode 2 want to fly together through a buddy box for training.

If you are going to fly Mode 1, make sure that you buy a transmitter that can be easily converted to different modes through the transmitter software although you will still have to change the stick spring and tension, but this will be in the manual. Many transmitters do this, the ones I'm familiatr with are the new Hitec Aurora 9 and Optic 6 - but there are others. By being able to easily switch between Mode 1 and 2 (or 3 and 4), you can change it to Mode 2 when it is time to resell.

On a side note, if you are going to fly 72mhz, make sure the transmitter can be programmed for positive and negative shift so it can fly different manufacturer's receivers (ex. Jr, Hitec, Futaba, Airtronics). I personally like the Hitec Optic 6 and Aurora 9 since it allows me to fly any mode, any 72mhz receiver (with 72mhz synthesized tx module installed) and also 2.4ghz with the 2.4 tx module installed with one transmitter. This pretty well gives me the flexibility to fly anything I want.

I hope this helps.

Fly4Fun,

Wayne Miller
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Old 01-14-2010, 03:55 PM
  #22
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Default RE: Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

Hi!
Hold your horses..!!
The majority of all fliers in Europe do not! I repeat, do not use mode 1! We use mode 2!! Ailerons and elevator on the right stick!

I puzzles me why anyone can think of separeting the two most important controls (ailerons and elevator)!!! Especially as you fly full scale plane with ailerons and elevator attached to a singel stick controlled by the right hand!
Of course you should choose mode2! As all fighter pilots!!!
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Old 01-14-2010, 04:01 PM
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Default RE: Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

You can make either work but I think Mode-2 is the better choice, especially as you advance into more sophisticated airplanes and radios. It is for me anyhow. I like having my right hand on the aileron and elevator controls at all times. If I need to fumble around for a switch or something it is easier for me to take my hand off of the left stick to do that if I have to since throttle and rudder inputs aren't quite as constant as the other two.

Mode-2 is also the standard here in the US. Suppose you are flying and get stung in the forehead by a wasp, get something in your eye, get suddenly sick, etc. With mode-2 anyone else around could take your transmitter and safely land your plane. Not necessarily the case for mode-1.

Just because they do something in another part of the world doesn't make it better. It doesn't necessarily make it worse either. It just makes it different.

You also mention teaching yourself to fly. That's fine but you'll have some great resources to learn from at your club field. I would take advantage of them. You'll be more successful in a shorter period of time that way which will ultimately save money and frustration. Just my opinion of course.
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Old 01-14-2010, 04:01 PM
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Default RE: Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

I remember reading an article quite a few years ago about how NASA determined the control layout for spacecraft...they did do a lot of testing because in zero-G, the astronaut's arms would be attached to the armrests to give leverage. They tested the equivalent of Mode I, Mode II, Single Stick, and other modes the engineers dreamed up.

It turned out that if you did not know how to fly, it didn't matter what mode you learned. You could become a successful spacecraft pilot. However, since most of the spacecraft pilots would be coming from Naval Air or the Air Force, they made the control layout similar to airplanes. It was easier than trying to teach experienced pilots to unlearn their flight habits and reflexes.

With R/C, it also makes little difference what you fly. There are lots of arguments pro and con for the different modes, but there are very talented people in all aspects of R/C flying who are on different modes. World champions fly Mode I, Mode II, or whatever. It's their innate talent and hard work that got them the trophy, not the mode they were flying.

People who have changed from one mode to the other and became more successful did it not because the "new" mode was better, but because it suited THEM better.

When learning to fly, you're much better off picking a good instructor and learning the mode they teach. Later, after you've been flying a while, you can see if the other mode will work out better for you....no matter what mode you started out with.
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Old 01-14-2010, 04:14 PM
  #25
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Default RE: Mode 1 vs. Mode 2

An argument no-one will win, but I have flown fullsize and I fly pattern, on mode 1. There is absolutely no comparison between sitting in the cockpit and standing on the ground with a sweaty plastic box in your hands. 'Like the real thing' just does not enter into the discussion. Fly what you want, but things like rolling circles are so much easier when you split elevator and rudder, and I believe Hanno and Wolfgang are/were mode 1 pilots...Landing with the two main (speed and direction) controls on the one stick is not so easy either, much better to have speed (elevator) fixed on one stick, and adjust direction/height with the other. Just an opinion, of course, but having done both...
Evan, WB #12.
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