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My Feedback: (34)

I could not have possibly said it any better.

I am a two-year flyer. My progression path was:
Visit the field several times.
Simulator.
Buddy box.
Trainer.
Solo.
Multiple crashes and hard landings.

I'm finally, after 2 plus years, getting to where I am halfway comfortable flying GS planes.

Bonified Wingnut

Thats where I have an advantage. I am blind in one eye and the sims look the same as real life. I fly on a 42" widescreen and use the same clues for orientation as I do flying.-BW

shaggy48

I've been using G3.5 on and off for a couple years now. And I have to agree with you about the Yak 54. It does tend to make me fly like a much better pilot. But I think that's just the software more so than the plane. Like many others have said the real life characteristics of each plane on the sim will NOT be exactly like the real thing. I too have a yak 54 and I admit that fllying the sim version influenced me to put that plane on last christmas's wish list. But I'm still flying a trainer in real life along with a little foamy. Haven't started the yak build yet because I've not yet decided on an engine and waiting for good weather. But mostly I've not started it because I'm not yet ready to fly it. Maybe later this spring or early summer before I'll feel I'm ready. And even then I've not doubt it wont fly like the sim.

My recommendations for you now that you've mastered the sim, is to make it more difficult. As close to real life as possible. Change the weather settings on your sim to include crosswinds and wind gusts. Program some flight failures etc, etc. I still haven't figured out how to make my version of Real Flight keep the settings though but maybe they've fixed that in your version. I make the changes in mine and everytime I start the program it goes back to the default settings. A real PIA to set them each time but its now kind of boring if everything is perfect when I start the program. I can tell you one thing that the sim seems poor at is that it tends to make landings on all planes much easier than real life. That will be among your first real differences to the sim. The planes on the sim don't bounce and get blown off course and stall as easy etc etc.

As for the real thing, whatever plane(s) you decide on. Buy it, build it and fly the crap out of it until you're bored and or its beyond repair. I'm a return RC flyer after being away from the hobby fo so long I forgot how to fly and I'm having a good time relearning old skills. I've never had an instructor, so I'm all self taught but I'm having fun and flying more than crashing. Welcome! And let us know how it goes.

Shaggyb

twn

Yes, ABSOLUTELY!!!! I learned to fly on G3.5. It took about a month of simulation to learn to take off and land properly. I had NOBODY here to show me and our club was dead. Talk about scary!! My very first flight with my Kadet Mk2 I will NEVER, NEVER forget. I needed 2 diapers, but I did it. Took off did 2 circuits and landed her. I went nuts! I was hooked.

Nothing except "real world practice" will teach you to separate your thumbs, in other words USE THAT RUDDER! Especially on landing and take off. Don’t worry so much about it at first but try here and there. You will get it.

The most helpful tips I got and can give are:
(1) When the plane is coming at you, point the aileron stick to the low wing to level out. Works every time.
(2) DON'T move your upper body to the plane, only your head. Square your hips to the landing strip and pretend your feet are tied down with railroad ties. You will look like a pro at other clubs when you do.
(3) Slow the stick movements, if you don't you will create twitchy flying and this is bad if you want to go precision. It took me more 2 months to work it out of myself when I went from a somethin extra (a bad habbit plane) to my 27% ultimate.
(4) CALM DOWN nervousness will wreck your plane GUARANTEED!! Breath, talk yourself into confidence. IT WORKS. Think ZEN, mistakes happen less when you are calm. When you are calm you are in a better place to recover.
(5) Learn how to trim and dial in your plane, learn how to correctly cg your plane. There is a process and it is important. You can find this here on rcu.
(6) Progress through maneuvers you know and understand, practice them on the sim then in the real world.
(7) Practice those maneuvers 3 crashes high first.
(8) Once you have learned the basics don’t try to jump into 3d maneuvers. I know they look cool and you will look cool doing them but you will learn bad habits if you don’t learn basic pattern and precision first.
(9) NEVER DO A DEAD PASS. (this is of course after you learn to fly) I got slapped a lot by Stacy for this.
(10) Find an instructor. This is IMO very important to keep from learning bad habbits.

For the first year I had nobody. For the second year of flying I had very few people to help me and those 2 know who you are and I thank you! (Rory and Lester) But I lucked out in my third year of flying, My buddy Stacy taught me A LOT. More so in the precision end. Like how to track through loops and hearts and where to make corrections and where not to. Sounds simple eh? Not so much!

This is my bud and instructor: (who btw was influential the tips above)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYwe6IC5nrI[/youtube]

LOL, I have become the poster boy at other local club events. I always get asked, "I heard you learned on a sim?" or, “watch this guy he learned to fly on realflight.� Believe me it is a real accomplishment to hear these things. I’m always proud to say yes. But I always give credit to the 3 people mentioned above.

3 Years later and I'm now progressing though pattern, sequences, rolling circles, flat spins, waterfalls, slow rolls, hovering etc... Not a pro by any means but I will get there. Beleive it or not there are guys who have progressed even faster, who have gotten to this point within a year.

Once you are at a point where you can routinely take off and land the plane on the runway in one cuircut over and over and over. Up the anty on the sim to make in more real, turn up the physics and turn on wind gusts and set to 20mph and set your normal windspeed to 5-10 mph. Try changing the wind direction from many directions. You won’t believe how much harder it makes it. Makes you work the sticks more. And it will prep you more for unknowns that happen in the real world.

opjose

No quite the opposite..

Relying upon "real depth perception" is a beginner's "crutch".

When the plane is further out on a clear day, you have almost no depth perception as depth perception relies upon parallax changes to the background, when there is none actually present.

Thinking that you must rely upon it creates problems for many pilots not used to employing other visual cues to do things like, line up the plane for an approach and landing, determining proper height when following a landing pattern, etc.

In this area the LACK of depth perception in the sim is a GREAT AID for novices.

They can learn to look for cue points in the airports and use those. When they translate this to the real world, they have a MUCH easier time.



Additionally the Sim lets a pilot learn NOT to rely upon seeing the orientation of the plane, but rather learn to determine how the plane is oriented by it's response to control stick movements alone... even when it is nothing more than a dot in the sky.

I've often recommended that people take a virtual Sim plane out so far that it is a point on the screen, then turn on smoke and fly patterns. Once they are used to doing that, they should turn off smoke, throw the sticks around randomly ( or better yet let someone else do it for them ) then try to regain control and orientation.

This lets them do something they would be quite afraid to try in real life, and gives them the skills to quickly recover when they suddenly discover they do not know which way their real plane is pointed or oriented.

THAT saves planes!

BarracudaHockey

My Feedback: (11)

While you may consider it a toy I can tell you this. I've taught a LOT of people to fly, I've been an instructor for more years than I care to remember, and people coming through the hobby today with sims are achieving in days and sometimes hours what students were previously taking weeks or months to acomplish.

I'd like to think I've progressed as an instructor but the credit goes to the simulator time.

And I maintain its an aide, not a subsitute, for an instructor.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

I agree. Think about it. Before Sims, you went to the field once or twice a week. Some clubs even limit training to one night per week. So IF the weather was good that week, you got two or three flights in.

Then you went home and did nothing until your next session - which, due to the weather might not be for three or four weeks.

So in a month's time, you got 3 flights.

With the sim, you can sit at home and practice regardless of what day it is or what the weather is like!

It used to take most people 3 or 4 seasons to get good enough to solo - now they can do it in one season or less.

ArcticCatRider

My Feedback: (6)

Opjose,

I disagree with your dismissal of depth perception. It's very important in many aspects of flight...far away and near. People need depth perception around trees, tall weeds, other obstructions. Do these objects have to be moving to qualify as parallax?? That I don't know.

I count on the same visual cues when I'm shooting skeet and sporting clays.

EDIT: Perhaps I'm confusing depth perception with peripheral vision...but in any event I still maintain their importance.

And Baracudda I don't consider it a toy....I just don't put much creedence into them. Being 26 years old, I'm no stranger to computer applications...but I've been flying RC planes long enough to know there's a considerable difference.

Do computers and simulators that law enforcement officers employ prep them for their duties? Are gun shots that are heard over audio accompanied by flashing lights the same as real bullets whizzing by your head??

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

ArticCat, I suggest you go to your next town meeting and tell the Town Council not to waste money on buying the Police Department a Law Enforcement Simulator because it's not like the "real thing" and see how popular your idea is with the cops.

opjose

Skeet shooting is done at much closer ranges.

It is difficult for a single eye sighted person to shoot Skeet.

It is relatively simple to teach the same person to fly planes if they use visual cues.

We have many single eye-sighted flyers around.


Depth perception tends to only comes into play close to the runway threshold on landings or over it and then when the plane is close to or under the tree line, not above.

Beyond that reliance on depth perception may actually fool the pilot into thinking the plane is closer or further from a tree, etc. than it actually is.

While everything helps, dismissing the simulator for lack of depth perception is specious.


If you truly want it though, Realflight is one of the only sims that gives it to you.

When used with an Nvidia graphics processor and 3D wireless glasses plus a 3D monitor ( in a few years NO glasses! ) you get it.

I have exactly that on my simulation system.

It works fine, but offers no big advantage.


I teach newbies to look for visual cues and alignment points when shooting approaches.

This works far better and much more quickly than pure reliance upon depth perception, and sole reliance on the latter tends to compond their problems.

I can tell them to align the flight path of their plane along a barrier fence, and they immediately "get it".

Landing height is established by the position of the plane relative to the tree line when out or at a fixed point when closer in.

Vettdriver

My son spent the better part of a year on G3 before I bought him a used Nexstar.
When we finally went out to the field he did his solo on his 5th flight.

He now has a Hangar 9 Corsair and is a better pilot at 14 and 1 year of experience than I was at 18 with 6 years experience.
That said, he knows how to fly & land them but he isn't as instinctive about it and he doesn't have a theoretical understanding of what's happening to the aircraft.

The improvements in technology in this hobby are incredible.
Your a fool if you don't take advantage of them.

phillipmorris

I neglected using simulators at the start, found later they do give you an idea of the inputs for certain models, but nothing can prepare you for the real thing, too many variables that can happen, but simulator indeeds helps alot, just don't expect the real thing to behave as the sim...

Best bet as mentionded is have a good instructor, will check the plane for being correctly intrim and avoid some of the otherwise assured misshaps on maidens...

The sim will give you some of the basics, its simply another tool to learn how to fly...Patience and Best of Luck.....

RichardGee

My Feedback: (156)

There is no doubt a good RC Sim is worth ever penny. In many ways, the sim is more difficult than the real thing due to the limited periferal visability and spacial relationship to the ground and other objects.

My 12 year old son practiced with Real Flight and when I took him to the field to fly a .40 sized trainer for the very first time, he was soloing within 30 minutes.

If you're into 3D, a sim is invaluable as you will be able to teach yourself the skills necessary for working into 3D maneuvers, without the pucker factor.

ArcticCatRider

My Feedback: (6)

No need to launch the strawman attack.....

I used law enforcement and simulators compared to RC flying and simulators as an analogy...nothing more...

I know many in here are looking down their noses at me for my opinions on flight simulators. But the original poster asked what people thought of them, and I answered. My 12 years experience of flying RC airplanes is no less valuable than anyone else's. I try to fly year round..sometimes I can't get out in January and February...but I don't have a simulator at home because I don't see the benefit, and I'm not hugely attracted to computer apps. I guess it's the same reason I prefer to watch a movie on a TV as opposed to my laptop..some people like the other way around...

Anyway, not trying to talk the guy out of buying one...just expressing how someone else thinks about them.

Modelfun2

My Feedback: (53)

I definitely feel that a combination of a simulator and real flying (with a Buddy Box preferred) is the best. If you learn only on the sims (as stated in other comments) you will learn habits that will not work in a real time situation. I learned the hard way... by myself! But one thing I learned is definitely how to repair and build RC airplanes. Building is a great and fun part of this hobby, but that is for another forum.

I recommend that you fly the real thing and use the simulator when you are not able to fly. Because... isn't your goal to fly the real thing (model) rather than a video image? This way you can get the best of both worlds have to offer and not crash!

Just remember that sometimes crashing is part of the learning process. Ask for help. There will be a time when you will be on your own and a new situation will occur or you get too confident. Try to mitigate the damages, but don't (at least try) not to be afraid of crashing. If you get it on video sometimes it can be cool! At least when you look back at it in a few days, months or years! This is totally dependent on cost!!

Just have fun!! Otherwise why do it?!

Cheers!

FLAPHappy

My Feedback: (209)

ArticCat has it right. The FS. is fun, and you do get to know flight charistics, how to turn how to roll,, it is not real life.
You make a mistake of FS, hit the space bar, you make a mistake on the field, it coud cost you a thousand dollars or more.
Get a good pilot, preferably an expierenced trainer, hook up to a buddiebox of your configuration, get the feel of the plane and the radio. If something goes wrong, the buddie box will help you.
You and your instructor first need to range check, then preflight every plane you are usinging. Check and recheck.

Cp4rg4

I took to the air with my 40 size trainer after only two months practice on realflight 4.5 it helped me alot, set it to 125% sim speed and 16mph winds and that feels more real to me. I had no instructor help just realflight sim.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Good for you Cp4! I like hearing about stories like your's.

Too often in these "how to learn" threads I hear, "this is how I learned and therefore this is the only way" mentality.

Rudolph Hart

You mean you are supposed to stop when you hear the siren sounds??

lkruse

My Feedback: (42)

Very well said.

edmoor

My Feedback: (1)

yes it can.......forget all you read above.....all u asked was a simple question.....this is a simple asnswer.

kochj

I learned how to fly on the old G3,5 sim Perfectly...
It was a .46 size floatplane with a new OS .46fx nitro..in it!!!!
My best friend also learned to fly on the sim and flew perfectly as well

NO buddy box, or field or experts....
Just AWSOME FUN!...

I picked up the g 3.5 (before you could do all the cool stuff that you can do now on the sims AKA 3D)

I practiced it and flew all the planes...

I purchased a floatplane... Thunder Tiger Sea Master...
Put it together, per instructions...
Tuned the engine...
Went out on my Fathers boat on Lake Minnetonka....

It was a big event.... Here I was NO experience flying RC planes EVER!

A guy pulled up next to us in his boat and yelled " DID YOU CA THE AILERONS".....
My friend who was a cop turned to the guy and said..." you look like one of the guys on Americas most wanted"
The guy took off.... NO JOKE!!! [: D]

I Flew the plane and landed it PERFECTLY!!!....
Only issue was trimming it.... was little nerve wracking...as the plane kept going out I had to try and trim it as well....

I Flew that plane successfully 100+ flights until I was doing some really crazy aerobatics (shouldn't be doing with a seaplane)
And it went in.....

FUNNY THING IS...

MY best friend..."the police officer who was in the video"
Took the same OLD simulator....and
Maidened my
TOWER hobbies Voyager and flew that ALL by himself (I at his side)
took off,Flew a perfect circuit, and landed!....

I am sure that many have done this ......
The sims are awesome!....

I can do everything that anyone else can do with there planes....

Bonified Wingnut

I taught MYSELF to fly, the simulator taught me not to crash.-BW

kochj

I practice at the very least. 1hour every night..
I am using my G4.5 sim to practice for IMAC and Pattern for this year....

It is almost Unfortionate for competitors because the Sims have allowed almost anyone
The chances to fly like QQ Somizinee...

That is why people like QQ and Frank knoll and others are such legends,
Because they didn't have Simulators to try all the new tricks and routines....
They had to practice and go off RAW ability!


Here is my Trainer....
MY fist plane that I flew when I learned off G 3.5

denwag

Yes you can. Times have changed. You have ARF's, RTF's, Sims, and google. I taught myself how to fly with Realflight. First plane was a Art-tech P-51 electric. I have about 50 flights on it now. Next plane is a GP Giant Big Stick with a DLE30 on it.

Regards
sbdwag