ameyam

While I am not sure this is the right forum for this but here goes.

I am debating a camera to take for photographing both the hobby as well as my other interests. Debating between a canon 1000d entry level DSLR and Panasonic FZ38 ultrazoom (18x optical zoom) point & shoot. The canon comes with a 18-55mm lens kit and I can take a better one when I have the money whereas the Panasonic comes with a non-replacable lens. They are both at the same price-point with the included lens only

Any thoughts on the same?

Ameyam

Stuntpilot51

I just bought the Canon XS about 3 months ago. It's a no brainer, go with the Canon.

I have yet to take a bad picture with it. Easy to use, great software.

Here's a couple of shots. second one is with a 70-300 zoom from about 50 feet away 40 feet up in a tree, don't ask!

mike109

G'day

I have both sorts of camera, I have some (2) Canon Ixus point and shoot cameras and a Nikon D60 with two lenses (18 to 55mm and 55 to 200mm).

The Ixus cameras are 6 and 7 megapixel and I think the Nikon is 10 or so. The difference is picture sharpness is very obvious between the two cameras a the optics of the Nikon are a good deal better than the little Canons which are good but just not quite as good.

The shorter lens is fine for taking static photos but the longer lens is best for taking flying photos. I generally switch the auto focus off for flying photos as the auto focus can be hit and miss with a small object.

Fortunately digital film is cheap and you can bash away until you get the photo you want.

The other advantage of the SLR over the smaller camera is speed - the smaller camera can sometimes take ages to get the into it needs and by the time it takes the photo, the event has already finished and you miss the photo.

I grew up with SLRs and so I like to look through the viewfinder and I find the SLR better for following a rapidly moving plane. I am sure others will say the opposite. It is a case of what you are used to.

What ever you buy, have fun. The fact that you don't have to have film developed and printed is a real boon but it does tend to make for people who just point and don't think. Back in the film days, you thought twice about pressing the button and the results were often better as a result.

pupmeister

Hi ameyam,

For starters there is a section on RCU dedicated to photography
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/forumid_352/tt.htm]All Forums >> Radios, Batteries, Clubhouse and more >> Digital Camera & Photo Editing[/link] , not the most active section of the forum, but definitely the first point of call for photography related questions on this forum.

But back to your original question on your choice between the Canon 1000D and the Panasonic FZ38. It all depends on what type of photos you want to take, if you want to only take photos of planes on the ground in the pits either camera would suit your purpose, but if you want to take photos of aircraft in the air you will need a long lens (depending on the size of plane I would say at least 300mm, the longer the focal length the better). Other things also come into play such as the accuracy and speed of the autofocus system of the camera and the high iso sensitivity of the sensor in the camera that will allow you to shoot at faster speeds. I have only scanned over reviews of the Panasonic but it does look like a very capable camera, but I would want to hold one in my hand before I give a final recommendation on purchasing it. I personally use a Sigma 120 - 400 attached to a Canon 7D or 450D for most of my aerial photography and even at 400mm I often wish that I had longer reach (and I am normally shooting giant scale aircraft). The Canon EF-S 18-55 mm IS is a great lens but is not suitable for aerial photography (it is great as a landscape and general walk around lens though). The price of a lens such as the Canon 100 - 400, Sigma 120 - 400, Sigma 150 - 500 or Sigma 50 - 500mm OS is going to be higher than the original DSLR camera and this must be taken into account when deciding on your camera, even if you are going to take some time between purchases.

I hope that makes it as clear as mud

You can seem some of my RC photographs on my Flickr page to see that I am not making this up [link=http://www.flickr.com/photos/pupmeister01/sets/72157623361576518/]Pupmeister RC Flickr[/link]

Cheers
Pupmeister

richg99

I've shot model airplane pix with both types of cameras. I own two Ultra zooms; a Canon S3 and a Sony H5; as well as a 13 megapixel Sony A350 DLSR. No question that the DSLR take sharper, clearer pictures. The number of megapixels helps, but the much larger sensor on ANY DSLR, compared to an Ultra Zoom comes into play, also.

I agree with the poster above. Fast moving planes in the air require long, sometimes expensive, lenses to capture a really good shot.

Even with my 18-250 zoom on the DSLR, I still have to crop to get the close-up detail that I need. That is where the higher megapixel/larger sensor cameras come into play. More megapixels; larger sensor; more ability to crop tight.

When you then start taking shots of planes positioned much closer on the ground, you will often find a long lens, that was perfect for shooting in-the-air...not helpful at all.

I switched around between a 22-50 ( for close in ground shots) and my 75-300 tele (good for air shots) for a while. I then caved in and bought a $550.00 18-250 zoom. For me, it is the best of all worlds. I can shoot long and short shots without changing a single lens.

Some will tell you that such long zoom lenses do not produce as high quality pix as do single focal length...so called- prime -...lenses. That may well be correct, but the quality is perfect for my uses...and certainly perfect for posting any pix on the web. regards, Rich

A quick pass shot with the Sony A350 18-250.

ameyam

Hmmm... thanks everyone for the advice. I have been looking at various cameras on my budget for some time and had originally shortlisted the Canon SX20 IS and Panasonic FZ38/35. I was also in thought process for a Canon SX1 or Panasonic FZ100 (both of which have CMOS sensors instead of CCD) and Panasonic FZ48/45 (its just been launched to replace the FZ38). However, the SX1 is discontinued, SX20 a bit inferior to the FZ38 in terms of image quality, FZ100 & FZ45 are still not available (also read both will be more expensive) and I wasnt willing to wait as I required the camera for some festival photography on Saturday.

Then someone suggested to buy a DSLR as it offers dedicated lenses for dedicated work and good snaps, so was delving into the 1000d. However, the quality of the FZ38 is comparable, the 1000d does not come with a zoom lens in the kit and crucially, does not have video recording. So FZ38/35 it is. I took the dealer's advice, took the Lord's name and bought it.

Usually, I buy most of my goods on Saturday (that being usually my lucky day, dont ask me why and yes, I am a superstitious in such things. Yes, most of my engines and airplanes, the prized 9CAP I got in brand new condition but second-hand, its TM8 2.4GHZ module etc were all sourced on Saturday, mostly by chance). Since all shops will be closed for festivities tomorrow, I bought it today but will open it tomorrow. Only charge it today. Will post photos when I get it working.

Thanks everyone for the advice again. By the way, the FZ38 has a 27-486mm lens

Ameyam

summerwind

i'm confused, i have been shooting with DSLR's for 11 years now (always with Canon gear), and i have never seen a "1000D"..........do you have a link to it?
here is a link to a great site and the list of all Canon digital cameras made in the last 12 years, no mention of a "1000D"
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Canon/

currently i use a 50D and a 5DmkII................but you really should be looking at the 7D.........has everything you need including close to pro AF and has video.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/spec...anon_eos7d.asp


don't waste your time and money on P&S cameras..............unless you don't care about advancing yourself in Photography.

ameyam

Summerwind,

dont get confused. The Canon 1000d is also known as the Rebel XS. It is typical for these companies to name their models different for different countries and continents. It is an entry level DSLR on the same lines as the 400d /450d excep it has 10mp, 7point AF, and LiveView (the 400d has 12mp, 9point AF, no liveview).

The FZ38/FZ35 isint your traditional P&S. You can look at the review of the same on the dpreview site also. Been there, done that (I mean looking at all the reviews, did it for nearly two weeks or more).

With regards to progressing in photography, yes, the DSLR will help me in that. But I have two reservations: 1) It takes a lot of time for learning how to use a DSLR properly (we have a hard work culture in India and it is difficult to find much time to do anything else, atleast on weekdays) 2) For a DSLR, you need to carry atleast 3 lenses: general (28-55), macro and zoom and additionally, it can do video- the 1000d (The FZ35/38 does 1280x720 or 720p at 30fps). That in addition to the airplane, all the tools and fuel. Seeing I dont have a vehicle of my own just yet (we car-pool to the field) and the immense cost of those lenses, DSLRs are best left to another day in the future (by which time I will get bored with this one just as I have got bored with the Sony W30 P&S 6MP camera I had so far). By the way, the 7D costs nearly twice that much, atleast here and that is withoit any lenses.

Try this link from the same site

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/q110...roup/page8.asp

Ameyam

blueapplepaste

My Feedback: (5)

DSLR for sure. One of the great things about them is you can do burst mode and take lots of quick successive pictures. There is also no delay between hitting shutter release button and picture being taken. So I think it will be easier to get a better shot with the DSLR. Though your lens will limit your zoom, but if you can get a nice close (but safe!!) flyby shouldn't be an issue.

Though at the same time, just bring both and experiment, too. What me or others may think, may not be what is best for you.

Good luck!

summerwind

well i take that back........i never saw that one for some reason..............my bad.
i never paid much attention to the Rebel line especially after a friend asked me to process some images from a 450 one time.
useable at 8x10 print size, but anything larger was lacking the quality i am use to.

i'd still hold out for the 7D though...........shooting aircraft in flight needs the better AF system the 7D has.

DSLR's are so user friendly, you can shoot in Auto, and still achieve better results that a fixed lens camera........surely you have some time to explore the DSLR don't ya?

richg99

Ame Great.....You will enjoy and use your Ultra zoom a lot.

As far as shooting airplanes in flight, it is an interesting feature of an Ultra Zoom that, due to its extremely deep depth-of-field, that many shots will be in focus without the accuracy of focus necessary with a DSLR lens.

While a DSLR has an advantage in final detail and sharpness..no one should ignore the many features and benefits of the entire Ultra Zoom class of cameras.

My Canon S3 took a 1,000 clear, sharp and valued shots on an Egyptian/Greece trip. It traveled to Canada to shoot a fishing trip, and it fits nicely in any small kit. My Sony H5 UZ, just a few weeks ago, recorded a 20 minute video presentation..shown an 8 x 10 ft. screen.... for our local golf group.

On most of the UZ cameras, you can add an optional tele-adapter. That pushes it out to the equivalent of 750mm or so. I've taken moon shots that rival my friends DSLR pix, all accomplished with a simple, inexpensive UZ style camera. Lots of bang for the buck.

The addition of a macro adapter allows some fine shots in that area of interest, too.

Let's see some postings of your pix ( on the PHOTO area) when you get shooting. Good luck and best regards, Rich

summerwind

Ame,

i think rich is right..........you are just doing this for fun right, you most likely won't miss out on any quality family shots you may take as that's what highly paid Pro Photographers are for, so a camera as he suggest is perfect for you. just hope you never get that one in a million shot that leaves you with the lower quality file.

thing is, ultra zooms are not the same quality (not even close) as a good quality DSLR lens, and will most likely keep you working for many years to come just to pay for them, but they are good enough.
good luck

ameyam

You just took a dig at me, didnt you? [8D]. No big deal. I didnt want to make things more complicated for me right now and its a good cam for the price I paid. May be in 3~4 years time I will look at the DSLR again. Right not I dont need it and no, I wont miss the 1 in million moment considering what I have been managing with so far (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0602/06...sonydscw30.asp)

Ameyam

summerwind

Ame,

no i did not take a dig at you.......we Americans are spoiled rotten, and i was simply expressing compassion.
i know many people from your country, and i have customers who have come here and made good for themselves, so i know what kind of lifestyle exists in your country.
no dig at all.
next week is a job for a man from your country who requested that i come late in the day so he can run his business right up to closing time and not take time off...........i agreed for the very reasons i stated.

Techman-59

I Think all of the above answers are good but one thing I did not see is the type of film you want to use unless you are sticking with a digital camera, If you want to shoot pictures of your Plane in flight and are going to use film then you need to look at film speeds. Also the lens that use is just as important. Ihave a Quantaray 70-300mm that is good on Canon cameras and it is really good for shooting sports and fast action. Ihave a canon Rebel EOS that Iuse for such things Ihave both 35mm film and digital cameras. If you are using a 35mm Film camera them you need to use a fast film,if you are using the digital then you need to use the correct setting on the camera for the action shots or on my Canon it is just the sports setting,it will make a big difference in the quality of the shot(s).

richg99

This is an interesting discussion.so..why not continue with Techman's comment/issue.

After taking a ton of action photos, I've settled on using the A or AV (aperture ) setting choice on all of my cameras...for airplane work. That way, YOU are selecting the correct exposure ( f-stop) and the camera is setting the fastest shutter speed that it can, given the light available.

Of course, this is an over-simplification, since you also have to choose the best ISO setting (film speed equivalent) for your picture first. Of course, then there are the settings for white balance; focus mode etc. I love having all of these choices, but I do settle in on just a few for particular types of shots.

Ame...as a new user now of an Ultra Zoom camera, I recommend that you spend some time going through the "White Paper" written by an early Sony H5 user. While it was written specifically to that brand, it contains tons of useful information for anyone to maximize the use of any Ultra Zoom style of camera.
http://www.aakatz.com/whitepaper/

regards, Rich

summerwind

another point that Ame is probably considering is that brand defending plays a role in these conversations.
with us in the USA, we have access to many differnet cameras that can be bought and returned to find the one that works for us.

with that said, i hope Ame looks thru and asks questions on DPR to satisfy what he is looking for.

film is a great alternative, and although ISO has surpassed film ISO in terms of noise, it is still a great way to go vs digital especially if one wants a simple point and shoot imager.

ameyam

Thanks for the guide richg99, I could use it as I have little experience with the more advanced settings. I will get there quickly however.

As I understood it, film cameras were dead atleast for still photography. For moving pictures, may be its still there. Problem with film is the added development costs. Here I took a stand an went full digital.

On the FZ35/38, the ISO peaks at 400 for useable stills (based on the reviews I read through, ISO 800 & 1600 are very noise but only when viewed close up). For film I am not very sure of the settings as my Sony never had any.

Ameyam

richg99

I never found my UZ cameras to be very good at low light shots...but...I don't take many low light shots. Add a flash, and you can get away in most any setting for general use. The lag time for the flash unit to reset itself was the biggest issue. Do you know that you can go to Flickr and see a zillion shots, all taken with your specific camera model? regards, Rich

ameyam

UZ cameras have this limitation. So will any P&S camera. The FZ35/38 comes with a pop-up flash that is good to 6-8M. Thereafter either you have to set to a longer shutter speed (it has a max shutter speed upto 60secs) or you bear with the dark photo. I dont take too many low light photos myself. Even for the closer photos, when you use flash, the photos dont appear natural.

I usually set the flash off first and set a low light mode for the photo. If that doesnt get the results or if I see light trails, I will use the flash. Preferably shooting without flash leads to a darker image that can be brightened up in Photoshop later. I preferably put the Sony in program auto so I wouldnt get the "bubbles"

Samples below were shot at the Taj Mahal and Agra Red Fort on my older Sony W30 camera (without IS). Sorry for the large sizes and unrelated topic though. As you can see I dont like to cap people

Ameyam

ameyam

Set2

ameyam

Set3

ameyam

Set4

PogoTex

Here's the primary point, with cameras just as with RC equipment, buy the best you can afford. It will give you better results and last longer.

The DSLR Canon can do anything you want. The standard zoom is fine for most of your use, telephoto lenses certainly work better for flying photos. Take your photos at the highest resolution you can, this will allow the cropping with minimal loss of quality.

Now for my slightly of topic mini rant, TURN OFf AUTO FOCUS WHEN SHOOTING VIDEO OF MOVING OBJECTS!!! It can never keep up. Set focus to infinity. This is also true for shooting with telephotos of moving aircraft.

I've been using Canon cameras for the last 20 years and am what may be their biggest fanboy, so take anything I say with a small grain of salt.

Good luck shooting

summerwind

this is EXCELLENT advice.....................unfortunately, i think Ame has been won over by a brand defender that is and will go out of his way to convince others that he has the ultimate tool for taking pictures.............such is a waste of time.

the airshow i shot a few months back with a 100-400mm zoom gave astonishing results.............shot using Pogo's technique with Focus set to infinity