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-   -   Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/beginners-85/10333183-best-worst-nitro-engine-powered-rc-airplanes-beginners-market.html)

aeroviasx15 02-13-2011 11:35 AM

Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 
I need help from experienced RC Pilots in Model Airplanes which are the best and worst Nitro Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners. I´m an experienced instructor. Most of my students have preferred the Hobbico Nexstar. This model is very unstable. Does not have the recovery qualities using the AFS. Other Hobbico planes such as the Superstar 40, Avistar 40, Goldberg Eagle, Eaglet 2 and Protege, Sig Kadets (all 20, 40) and the Tower Trainers and many more to mention are very stable to fly. Nice recovery capabilities and do not stall easily. All my career in model airplanes training have been using the Sig Kadet Senior with a OS OS 46 AX with a 12X6 propeller ( previously used a 46 SF as a starting engine. Also used the Kadet Seniorita with a Webra 40 Blackhead. Still have them. I presently have a debate with other instructors which protect the Hobbico Nexstar as the best trainer in the world for beginners. If I´m wrong with the Sig airplanes that is fine.

Oberst 02-13-2011 11:52 AM

RE: Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: aeroviasx15

I need help from experienced RC Pilots in Model Airplanes which are the best and worst Nitro Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners. I´m an experienced instructor. Most of my students have preferred the Hobbico Nexstar. This model is very unstable. Does not have the recovery qualities using the AFS. Other Hobbico planes such as the Superstar 40, Avistar 40, Goldberg Eagle, Eaglet 2 and Protege, Sig Kadets (all 20, 40) and the Tower Trainers and many more to mention are very stable to fly. Nice recovery capabilities and do not stall easily. All my career in model airplanes training have been using the Sig Kadet Senior with a OS OS 46 AX with a 12X6 propeller ( previously used a 46 SF as a starting engine. Also used the Kadet Seniorita with a Webra 40 Blackhead. Still have them. I presently have a debate with other instructors which protect the Hobbico Nexstar as the best trainer in the world for beginners. If I´m wrong with the Sig airplanes that is fine.


O.S. for 2-strokes, Saito and O.S.engines for 4-stroke. These are my favorites. Webra is OK, but after 10 years, the replacement parts become hard to find for those engines. Evolution Glow engines? I think they are terrible. Magnium engines don't seem to last very long compared to O.S. and Saito.

Tower Hobby engines and Fox are OK. They are somewhere in the middle of the list.

It's personal preference, other than that- it's JMHO.


Pete

Gray Beard 02-13-2011 12:58 PM

RE: Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 
So far I haven't seen a lot of difference between the different makes of trainers. Someone gives me an old trainer and I use it. I let the student fly that plane after the solo, if they crash it someone else will give me another trainer. If the student has a plane already we use his plane for training. It's a choice thing, I haven't found one much better then the other.

jester_s1 02-13-2011 01:35 PM

RE: Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 
Maybe the Nexstar you flew was set up wrong? Like Graybeard said, I can't tell a dime's worth of difference in the various trainers.

jetmech05 02-13-2011 01:58 PM

RE: Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 
Oh yes there is...Nexstar's are horrible...I have flown many of them....I mean they do their job...but they are over priced, and don't fly as well as other trainers....as far as engines anything but an Evo .46 The best combo is a Kadet family member with an OS engine

bigdanusa 02-13-2011 02:03 PM

RE: Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 
If you're the instructor it shouldn't matter what "trainer" plane they are flying. Some fly easier than others. Your job is to let them fly the plane at a safe altitude and when they get into trouble you should have enough experience to pull them out, otherwise you're not much of an instructor!

A guy in our club wanted me to hook him up on the buddy box so he could fly his Sig LT 40. After a short while the plane was in a spin about 20 feet from the ground heading for disaster. I had to take over so he wouldn't bust up "his" plane. He said, "Why'd you take over? I had it." I told him I didn't want to see him mash his plane up. He was half Pis??? Then at the other end of the field about 2 minutes later it happened again! Heading right towards the ground in a spin. I had to take over again. This time he was Really pis???! I told him if he can pull out from those positions, what the hell do you need me for! (He packed up and I never heard from him again!)

big dan

Gray Beard 02-13-2011 02:25 PM

RE: Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 
Set up and CG, done correctly they are all about the same. As an instructor it is up to me to check the plane out before it leaves the ground, take it up and do the trim work then turn the student loose. I learned to fly with a Sr. Telemaster. Other then being big it will fly like any other plane. Some do have more dihedral then others but I never felt that was any big deal. Next student I see that has the frame of mind to release the controls will be the first so the self righting aspect is sort of a mute point. There is a sticky thread here showing what trainers are on the market with good and bad points plus prices. Worth a look.

mike109 02-13-2011 02:33 PM

RE: Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 
G'day

I vote for the Kadet family as BEST and the Phoenix Classic as WORST.

I am currently teaching two "over 50" students and I suggested the Kadet Senior for them. Both built their own models; one from a kit and one from a plan. One is powered by a Saito 65 and the other a Saito 62. I prefer the Kadet Senior for its stability, particularly for older beginners. It is also tough, large, and slow all of which are desirable in trainers and especially for older learners.

The Phoenix Classic flies OK and might be OK for young learners but it is inevitably overpowered with a 46 two stroke and it has little stability. A 30 class engine would be better with it bit it always turns up with a 46 two stroke.

I prefer four strokes for trainers. Yes, they are more expensive and they are more expensive to fix if you crash but so far I have managed to avoid the crashes and the ease of use, quieter operation and low fuel use win for me. I prefer Saitos as they seem to last more or less forever.

In my stable of trainers (I like trainers to play with), I have five kadet Seniors of which one is an ARF, an ARF LT-40 and a kit built LT-25. One of the kit built Seniors is modified with ailerons and is a tail dragger. The LT-25 taught one of my more difficult students to fly and then land. It is not pretty any more and is now in semi-retirement. It took lots of knocks when he was learning to land as he would loose the plot from time to time and the wing tips took a pounding.

My oldest Kadet was built from a kit about six years ago, is powered by a Saito 56 which suits it perfectly and is covered in Solatex iron on cloth covering. It has given many people their first experience of RC flying and is ready to do this for some time yet. The cloth covering has helped to keep this model in one piece but it also makes it penetrate windy conditions better than the film covered versions. The Solatex also lasts better.

The only downside of the kit built Kadet is also its strength. The large dihedral makes the Kadet the forgiving plane it is but it also makes it vulnerable to side winds. It is absolutely necessary to take off into the wind and although you can land with some cross wind, you do have to turn into the wind pretty quickly to avoid the model being tipped over. I think this is a small price to pay for all its other strong points.

Cheers

Mike in Oz

Insanemoondoggie 02-13-2011 03:20 PM

RE: Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 
Top of the line for me is the LT 40 takes a licking and keeps on ticking, easy repair and set up.,my lest favorite is aNextStar, The 70 inch wing span of the LT40 is a big plus when learning.
A good cheap trainer is the Tower 40.

red head 02-13-2011 04:23 PM

RE: Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 
I've taught on a few Nexstars and DON'T like them at all. They are unstable and twitchy as far as I'm concerned. I had a student this summer with one and it ended up getting some wing damage. He wanted to fix it but decided he liked the way his LT 40 flew so he took the measurments off that wing and rebuilt the wing like the LT 40. Now that is a good flying Nexstar !!! I was really kind of worried about him building the wing but he did a great job and it flew super first flight. ENJOY !!! RED

HighPlains 02-13-2011 04:53 PM

RE: Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 
Sig Kadet LT-40 has no peer. There is a huge muddle in the middle, with the worst being a Duraplane.

gwalker8388 02-13-2011 05:54 PM

RE: Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 
Big Dan I am a beginner to the plane world. It is also to late to ask what would be a good beginner plane since I did not find this web site until I purchased a Hanger9 P-91 mustang for beginners. It should be here UPS tomorrow. I did purchase a Phoenix Sim. for it . What will be some key pointers you are your friends could recommend since I have been unable to find a club here?

opjose 02-13-2011 06:36 PM

RE: Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 
I can't say that I've ever flown an "unstable" Nexstar a student has shown up with.

If anything it flies much like most high wing trainers with a bit more dihedral.

I find the Sigs and Alpha's to be the most docile with nice long power off glides.


bigdanusa 02-13-2011 07:48 PM

RE: Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: gwalker8388

Big Dan I am a beginner to the plane world. It is also to late to ask what would be a good beginner plane since I did not find this web site until I purchased a Hanger9 P-91 mustang for beginners. It should be here UPS tomorrow. I did purchase a Phoenix Sim. for it . What will be some key pointers you are your friends could recommend since I have been unable to find a club here?
It sure wouldn't be that Hanger 9 P-51 Mustang if you've never flown a plane before! I'd hold off on that and find something else if you can't find a club or an instructor. Odds are, if you try flying that one on your own you may be out 1 P-51 mustang within a matter of seconds!

Find something with a high wing with a bit of dihedral so it would be a bit more stable.

Key pointers: Don't get your fingers in the prop. Buy a good engine like OS. If you're going to do it alone keep it high, fly the oval and just make left turns. Anytime you make a left turn the left wing will drop lower than the right so you must also give it a "tad" of up elevator to maintain your altitude, otherwise it will spiral towards the ground. To level out just give it a bit of right aileron. If the plane is coming towards you don't panic! Just push the right stick (your aileron control) towards the "lowest" wing and it will level out. Don't bang the sticks around! All it takes is a little bit of input of the controls to change the planes flight. Good luck!

It's just like driving a car. If you make a left or right turn you must turn the opposite to straighten out. But since it's a plane don't forget to add some up elevator when you do make a turn to maintain your altitude.

big dan

opjose 02-13-2011 08:24 PM

RE: Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 

Yeah the PTS-P51 can be a good plane for a beginner that has an INSTRUCTOR teaching them ( and a buddy box ) but very definitely NOT for anyone going it alone.


gwalker8388

Get yourself a "clone" of the Multiplex Easystar or something like that.... the Hawk Sky, or Hobby People's version...

These are rebust, self righting planes with upsweep on the wing tips for added stability and self righting.
The engine is above the fuselage to prevent damage and prop breaks.

The Hawk Sky has full 4ch controls so you'll learn with ailerons.

The plane lands easily on grass and can be hand launched. The plane is about the size of a .40 glow engined plane, making it easy to see.

Repairs are easy & the price is right! They are sold by various vendors.

If and when you tire of it, it makes a great camera or FMV platform.


noveldoc 02-13-2011 09:49 PM

RE: Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 
Agree Sig Senior or Seniorita is the best. If you can find one that is. Seniorita clones are being made in China but I know first hand they are real junk.

The Butterfly Arising Star is a cheap ARF (got one for $70.), is very easy to assemble and flies pretty well. Stable. Lands a bit faster than a Kadet. For the price, would give it a look.

Tom

Oberst 02-14-2011 05:56 AM

RE: Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 
[&:] I misread the question, sorry about that.

What's the best Glow plane for a beginner can't be answered exactly. What might be a great trainer for one, might not be a great trainer for someone else. We all have our personal favorites and might be a little bias.

I started on the Goldberg Eagle Kit. No one in this world can tell me there's a better trainer on the market- that's my own bias. The truth is, they are all good. Just stay away from the PTS Mustang from Hanger 9 for now. I'd start on a top wing trainer, and then to a bottom wing trainer and get a lot of stick time. Then I'd go for the PTS Mustang or a more advanced plane.

JMHO

bigdanusa 02-14-2011 06:58 AM

RE: Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 
The worst trainers are those smaller ones and the ones that have a flat bottom wing. The wind wants to throw them all over the place and they're harder to see. Those planes normally fly the beginner around rather than the beginner flying the plane around.

Now, with an instructor, the best plane for a beginner would be a "low wing" Goldberg Tiger 60.

It's larger and easier to see, it goes where you want it to go, it will not tip stall on you, and it will land on a dime! Plus the wind won't throw it all over the place and it looks a lot nicer than some of those small trainers.

Once you learn the basics of flying you'll realize a low wing "larger" plane is just as easy to fly as a high wing trainer.

big dan

Sport_Pilot 02-14-2011 07:08 AM

RE: Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 
TT engines and the Sig Kadets are the best.  Not sure which is worst.  Probably some of the el cheapo $69 trainers, and an old used MDS.

bigdanusa 02-14-2011 07:25 AM

RE: Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 
A beginner in our club had one of those so-called best trainers, the Sig Kadet LT 40 and that plane was all over the place. I can't tell you how many times he had to repair it. Then I let him fly my goldberg tiger 60 and he said my tiger 60 was easier to fly than his Sig LT 40.

The goldberg tiger 60 has to be the most graceful plane they ever made! Open it up and it can also be a real crowd pleaser. I give it a ***** rating especially for a beginner with an instructor.

big dan


garyr1 02-14-2011 07:50 AM

RE: Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 
Don't forget the option of knock-off trainers at ridiculously low prices either...NitroPlanes for one offer a number of these.
I had the 70" Trainer 60 and it was a puppy with an OS55. Superbly smooth and very easy to fly. The bigger OS55 gave me lots of grunt if I needed it, but was quite fuel efficient at 1/2 throttle where the trainer flew perfectly well.
ONE CAUTION: Be prepared to toss the junk linkages and pushrods and replace with decent hardware. Also you need to ALWAYS reglue and hot fuel proof, but that's part of the learning curve too. OK so that adds $20 but you learn by selecting good stuff at the LHS and working out how to hook it all up.
Just MHO....I learned to fly on a cobbled up Quickie 500 wing stuck on an old fashioned boxfly fuse...and an ancient Enya35...so a LOT of stuff flys well enough to get the student through the white knuckle stage. I think the KEY to student success is equal parts EXPONENTIAL to get rid of the jitters, and a good instructor with buddy box.

At the end of the day, get up there and enjoy the joy of flight!

garyr1 02-14-2011 08:53 AM

RE: Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 
Hey gang:

I just realized NO ONE has mentioned SIMULATORS.
THAT is the best trainer in the world, bar none!!!!

This is the missing link to successful flights.

Get one and fly it till you can do it in your sleep.
Makes a HUGE difference on the field, once you get the white knuckle first flight behind you.

At the field, use exponential and get an instructor/buddy box going.

raydar 02-14-2011 09:12 AM

RE: Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 
Well I have an lt40 kit built, been flying it for 14 months and still fly it. It is a great trainer as it is big (easy to see) and very docile. I will admit interesting to fly in the wind.

Great for the first flight of the day to get the brain to thumb link working.

There is non flat bottom wing, less dihedral smaller flyingtrainers out there that will easily out fly the lt40 and be "better flyers" and more "on rails" to the experienced pilot but will they last 14 months in the hands of the inexperienced?.

The lt40 is a great trainer but yes some will outgrow it quickly, better that than crash your first model and be disillusioned with the hobby.

EGRUNE 02-14-2011 09:42 AM

RE: Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 
Wow, I guess I'm a bit surprised with all the "Nexstar Haters Club" (Easy Now, Just kidding guys). I'm by no means a world class RC pilot, however I learned on the Hobbico Nexstar and loved it. I personally thought it was very stable if set up correctly, and mine seemed to fly very well, no problems etc...

CRI CRI 02-14-2011 09:51 AM

RE: Best and Worst Nitro Engine Powered RC Airplanes for Beginners in the Market
 
I agree with the Nexstar is terrible and over priced. The thing will tuck in a turn and it pendulums terribly. THE AFS hinders more than it helps. I have found the Kadets to be top for stability and recently The Sedona by HP is awesome. Extremely stable but versatile after they solo.


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