Which ARF Trainer ?
 

I've been putting so much time into my 1st kit I now have the fear of destroying it while learning to fly. So I must ask, what is a nice ARF trainer ? I have a DX7, so I just need the plane and a cheap recommendation for an engine.. Probably Nitro, but I'd do electric too, if the price is right..

Thanks!<br type="_moz" />

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

If your other airplane is a glow airplane then this first ARF should be one also.

John

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

This is a practical choice for you at this time. It is an excellent trainer:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXCAS2&P=RF

I agree with mike's assesment of the kadets entirely however the problem with the Sig Arfs is I cannot get anyone to buy them.

On the engine I will refrain from making a suggestion because I refuse to recommend the cheapies I always get shouted down but remember if you get the best in the engine department it will make the entire experiance of learning to fly a real joy. The experiance for so many who try crappy engines is exactly the opposite and often causes them to quit without ever. realizing the dream.

Also remember if you get a desirable engine in the .46 class it will also serve you well with follow on airplanes.


John

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

G'day

I'd suggest the Sig Kadet LT-40. It is big, light, flies really well and does not need a large expensive engine. My mate is flying one with an OS LA 46 and it is perfect.

There are many smaller, faster, Asian made trainers very few are as good as the Sig Kadet LT-40. You can get them direct from Sig or your local hobby shop may have one. www.sigmfg.com

It is not cheap but it is worth the extra. I am currently building the kit version. So far I have managed only to trim the wing ribs ready to start on the wing.

An alternative for half the price (plus freight) is from the well known Hong Kong web based RC seller. They are selling an ARF version of the Sig Kadet Seniorita. It is not the "genuine" Sig version but it looks exactly the same to me. I have just bought one. It is sold as an electric and mine may well end up that way but it would be easy to put an OS LA 25 or similar in it. I used to fly one with a PAW 15 diesel. They do not need much in the engine department. But, they do fly really well and very slowly if required.

Have fun choosing.

Mike in Oz

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

I will "second" John's recommendation. I have a Tower Hobbies Trainer 40 with an OS 25AX on it that flys every week and has been doing so since 2008. A very rugged ARF. I did build an 82 inch wing for it but switch to the stock wing on more windy days. Just flew it a few hours ago in fact and a good choice for an inexpensive trainer. With the 25 it is very light and does fine off a smooth grass or paved runway and can do cuban-8s all day long. If you have runway with longer grass, the OS 46AX would be a better choice. Just make sure you get the CG right as mine was too nose heavy at first and difficult to land. Moved the battery back and it slows to a crawl for landing. Learning on a cheap ARF is a smart idea rather than risking your kit. Best of luck there!

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

Hello again.

I just thought I would mention two other ARF trainers that we have had good success with.

The World Models Skyraider Mach 1 flies really well. It is really nice to fly, is quite light so it will fly slowly but it is not very crash worthy. I bought one years ago and put an OS LA 46 in it. I rarely got to fly it because the club president used to borrow it to teach on. More recently I bought another one and put a Saito 62 in it. It was a brilliant (if expensive) combination. I sold it recently with a Super Tigre 51 in it and it was very nice to fly. Sadly the new owner forgot to pull the antenna on the radio up and ..... THUD.

Unfortunately, I think the Skyraider has been deleted but there are probably some out there. They really do fly well and they are not too small.

The other is a Phoenix trainer sold here as the Boomerang 60. It has a flat bottomed wing, is quite large but is not all that light so it needs to fly at moderate speeds. It does fly well. I am sure it is sold in the USA under some other name. They will fly with an OS AX 46 but are much better with a 60 or even a 75.

Have fun choosing.

Mike in Oz

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

The Sig Kadet would be my first choice and the Tower Trainer flies well too.
If I were you I'd look through the classifieds and on craigslist for a used one or hardly used one. You can usually pick them up for little dollars compared to buying everything new. I just found a Nexstar trainer package with all the field equipment for under $200.00 for a new club member. The seller had it for his son, flew it three times and his son lost interest.  Those deals are out there and the Nexstar is another fine trainer too but very expensive new.

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

My first successful trainer was the Sig LT-40. Slow and forgiving as long as the right person teaches you. It is now a bashed taildragger that I use when I want to putt around the sky.:)

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

http://ecsvr.com/abm/shopexd.asp?id=2925 glow versiom

http://www.thewingsmaker.com/airplan...p?name=Wingman I (EP) electric version

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

What are you building now? If you're going to be working with a competent instructor, the chances of crashing are pretty slim truthfully. It's the second plane that usually gets all beat up. Either way, I look at a trainer or basic sport plane that has all the covering rubbed off the wingtips, patches everywhere, one cowl cheek glued back on, etc and so on with respect because that's a plane whose owner has enjoyed it and learned a lot from it. These early planes aren't art projects and shouldn't be treated as such, IMO. Take that thing out there and fly the daylights out of it.

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

I'd suggest to go to the clubs in your area, chances are someone has a nice trainer for sale and helps you flying it.
Then there are swap meets, craigslist and rcu.
SIG planes are great, I still have a Hobbico Superstar, I'd sell it, but won't ship it though.
The 40 size trainers all seem to fly the same way, they have pretty much the same geometry and airfoil.

Here is a place I found some very good planes for a fair price, I'd give this one a try:

http://www.valuehobby.com/airplanes/...-series-1.html

That's $65 for the 40 size version, you'll find plenty of good and used engines here on RCU, I'd be looking for an OS first, I also had very good experiences with Magnum engines

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

Sig LT 40. My first choice for training someone to fly and has been for years. Good luck.

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

Just about all the "big name" trainers are good for learning on. The Tower Trainer is one of my favorites for training students on. I have literally lost count of how many people I have taught to fly using the Tower Trainer. You'll do well with it.<div>
</div><div>One I tend to steer people away from is the Nexstar. There is nothing wrong with the way the plane flies, but rather it's simply just too expensive.  You are paying for things on that bird that you don't need, and most instructors will remove before they start training.</div><div>
</div><div>Hope this helps</div><div>
</div><div>Ken</div>

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

The Tower Trainer, http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXCAS2&P=RF, is an excellent airplane to have both as a Trainer to start, and then as an
experience builder, along with a tool for maintaining proficiency as time goes by. To start out, I strongly suggest the use of a good instructor, especially if you desire
to have the machine for any time longer than an hour! ;)

As far as engines go, there are a number of good ones. The Thunder Tiger 40 is my engine of choice for many duties. It is about the best out-of-box engine that I have
ever used, and I've been in the business for some 65 years. Super Tiger is the most stay-longer and less need for good treatment, but one needs to know something about the 40/45 carb. "Great Pains" really screwed the pooch when they eliminated the restrictor that ST furnished before GP went east with the manufacturing of ST. I make
my own and have for others which as one guy said, "Horrace's restrictors turned my two ST 40s from boat anchors to excellent strong and reliable engines."

AFAIAC: OS is the most overly flaunted overpriced piece of junk going, They are dependable engines but have always been less than top dog in any consideration.
Just my opinion, but I was in this thing when the first ones came over.

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

[quote

AFAIAC: OS is the most overly flaunted overpriced piece of junk going,

[/quote]


It is exactly remarks inaccurate at best such as this, that is the reason I refrained from making a direct engine reccomendation in my post #3. To the original poster be cautious of any statements such as this, and decide for yourself as well as comparing apples to apples.

John

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

You can still buy the world model Mach 1 hi wing and they offer a Mach 2 low wing also. Air borne models has them in stock and you can't beat the price. They are a little over a 100 bucks and they are a great flying plane. I have a 46 evolution in my Mach 1 and a magnum 52x in my Mach 2. They are both great flying planes and the Mach 2 is super fast with the 52x .

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

Well John, I am sorry that I stroked your feathers, however I am not one to not say what I think for fear of hurting someone's feeling.

Just look at the pricing of Tower (Great Planes) OS and relative Thundertiger. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0093p?&C=GCD

GP has no problem with buying out every distributor they can, then pricing OS just below comparative other engines which they also distribute.

When GP bought out ACE, Thunder Tiger for a short time was twice the ACE Price. Then they must have seen the error of their ways as they dropped it back, but comparative TT engines are still more than OS.
OS was never competitive against Fox and Supertigre when I competed in CL Stunt. OS was never competitive when I won many trophies in FF classes, B and C. OS was never competitive when I flew RC Pylon Racing, RC Scale Racing, and even a few RC Scale events. OTOH they did cost more. :eek:

OS was always well promoted and priced above all the other comparative over-the -table (meaning sold on the retail market )engines.

Rossi, Nelson, Dubb Jet, YS, and a couple others are all in another complete world. :eek:

I'm not sure that the OP was looking for this! Yet, I retain my opinion. So be it.

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

Well in my opinion OS is one of the nicest engines going...Yes they cost a little more but they are quiet and that really counts these days , they are easy on fuel , easy to break in , easy to tune , desgined with saftey in mind , just an all around user friendly engine , in my opinion..

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

I'll ditto what some one else said about staying away from the Nexstar. But I'm surprised no one has yet mentioned the Avistar. This is the trainer I have used and recommended the most. If you want to buy one trainer that will not bore you right away and will really get your skills ready to move up to a sport plane,then the Avistar is the one to get. Flat bottom winged trainers have their place , but they really do not prepare you for improving your flying skills as does a symmetrical air foil like the Avistar.  It is a very stable training platform that can be very easily tweaked into a capable sport plane. Just my opinion.

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

I agree with hugger-4641 i learned on avistar with 40la it was underpowered then put a 46 fx on it and i still fly it a fun flys or if i want just a relaxing flight

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

Is the Avistar discontinued ?

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

Recently redesigned, rebranded as Great Planes, currently only available as RTF. http://www3.omnimodels.com/cgi-bin/w...I=GPMA1605&P=0

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

Ok. I read everything in this thread. Let me comment on what I have experienced.

First of all, I started out training with a Tower Trainer 40 with an OS 46 engine. That combination worked great for me. I trained on this when I was able.

Unfortunately, when I retired from the Coast Guard, I starting out in a new job which required quite a bit of travel. The new job took me back and forth to England and, again unfortunately, that was right in the middle of my RC training. On one long trip, I bought a trainer that was advertized as being indestructable. I bought it in England, built it there, and, with the help of an instructor, flew it there. It had an OS engine whth an older Airtronics radio system.

A couple of years later, my travels diminished to the point where I could continue my training. The Nexstar was out and I liked what I saw, so I bought one.

My instructor and me sat down and went through the manual and then put the RTF together. We talked about the AFS and decided not to hook it up. He wanted to fly the plane with it before actually letting me fly with it. Well, we disabled it and kept it disabled.

During my training with the Nexstar, I broke a few props, and bent the main gear a bit, all expected during training, but I solo'ed with it.

I kept the plane and few it occasionally and enjoyed it. I eventually moved up to a Goldberg Tiger 60 and flew that all the time. The Nexstar took a sideline.

I eventually sold it to a new club member who eventually solo'ed with it. He also broke props and had some fuselage damage during training, but he solo'ed with it and eventually sold it. The person he sold it to flew it and eventually solo'ed with it. I don't know where it is now, but I do know that it worked just fine for me and at least two other pilots.

My point here is that the Nexstar is a fine trainer, as are most of the others mentioned here. The OS engine on the Nexstar performed for me as it did for the person that bought the plane from me.

I now own about 10 glow powered planes and several electrics. All of the glow powered planes have OS engines. My brand loyalty is because of the experience I had with them, being reliable, economical, and powerful. That does not mean that I have not owned other engines during my initial years, because did. I owned and flew a Tower 40 with a Tower 46 engine, as well as that Tiger 60 with a Super Tigre 75. I had no problems with either of them. But I gained a more and more positive opinion of the OS engines as I bought them and flew them. They were and always have been reliable, powerful, and quiet.

I want to say that any opinion of engines, planes, are very subjective. I have bought and flown several other trainers, using them as club trainers, and every one of them were OS powered and flew just fine.

So, my suggestion would be to look over the list of trainers shown here - http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4537845/tm.htm and choose one. This list was compiled by few of our most knowledgeable members and contains a list of trainers that anyone here can buy, fly, and solo with.

Choose what you wish, and read through this thread with interest and consider that many post based on thier experiences, as did I. I don't think that there is a perfect trainer that will meet everyone's needs, but most will do exactly what they purport to do... train new RC pilots to fly safely and with confidence.

CGr.

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

Hobbico Nexstar. I have one and will sell it to you less engine and servoes.
Pl. PM me if interested.

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

Best trainer? Telemaster...

My exterience

Gerry

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

FWIW, many years ago when the Army at Ft Huachuca was training soldiers to fly drones they started them off with Hobbico Hobbistar 60s. 

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

Horrible trainer!

We purchased three of them for our club trainers.

By the end of the first session most of the struts had popped out and the mounts broken.

By the end of the third session the horrible covering they come with started coming off and kept doing so from then on...

Some students who arrived with 3 channel experience, had pronounced difficulties with rudder turns because of the tendancy of the plane to nose in on rudder turns because of the high dihedral.

I let a few students who had prior sessions on the Telemaster, try both an Alpha 60 and a Tower trainer we had as backups. They ALL preferred these two planes over the Telemasters and found them easier to control, more docile and predictable, and easier to land.

The "ground crew" was permitted to destroy what remained of the Telemasters in disgust, at the end of the season.

We'll never use them again...

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

Really .. you should be able to grab any trainer.. and just start flying it ..


Half the pepole commenting on here about this that topic .. I think are far better at just that "commenting on X Y and Z .. "rather then flying so just grab whatever is priced right easy to get ahold of and ask your instructor for his 2 cent's.... then buy some fuel and burn fuel ... the more fuel the better and the more offen the better..

"it's what you make out of it" and only what YOU .. no special brands or magic will change that fact

also if you think about crashing .. then guess what ... you crash.. .. gota work on your chi !! thinking about flying instead :)

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

Now how Cool is that, interesting bit of trivia RG thanks for posting. Recall what engine was used?

John[8D]

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

Yeah really.... The Telemaster was/is not condusive to "just start flying it" unfortunately.

Some of the suggested examples in this thread are MUCH better choices.

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

OP, had enough? are you <font size="3" face="Times New Roman">thoroughly confused? I don't blame you we all love to tout our great knowledge to new guys. But any trainer you can get your hands on, they all fly prettymuch the sameand join a club, and hook up with a AMA certified trainer. Many clubs own trainers and will let you use theirs as long as you belong to the club. We use Hanger 9 Alfa trainers, but only because the local hobbyshop gave us a deal on 2 and they fly fine and the engines are easy to start. Complete and ready to fly with Dx 5 radios they were $350 ea. Go have fun nowhttp://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f.../thumbs_up.gif</font>

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

<span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 0);">
</span><span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 0);">Yeah, I burned a lot of fuel and crashed a lot of planes in the process of learning because I didn't seek advice from experienced flyers. Not that I didn't want help, I just didn't know any help existed in my area until I met someone accidentally and found out about RCuniverse. The Op has been very wise to come here asking questions. Most of us responding in this thread have flown the planes we are recommending and then some. The Op can check the galleries and post histories of each person who replied here and decide if they lack credibilty. Personally, I have not only flown many of the trainers mentioned here, I teach with them. I have used several of them myself and I still have a Royal trainer and an Alpha 40 that I fly in addition to my three Avistar's that I use for teaching. How many of these planes have you flown ZacharR? And how many people have you taught to fly as an instructor?
</span>
<br type="_moz" />

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

Well, mine has no struts in the first place. I purchased it when they first came out with the "electric ARF 72" version. After hundreds of flights, and at least 8 years, I managed to crash last Saturday. Lost all control. It did some amazing maneuvers at full power before going in...

So, we had different Telemasters and different experiences. I do agree with you about the covering, In all these years I had to recover the ailerons and flaps. The covering was coming off. Of course, being electric, I flew w/o covering on the flaps for some time. when the ailerons started peeling, I did a re-cover job on ailerons and flaps.

In our club we only have (well, had) 2 similar to mine (ARFS). The other 3 are 60 size, but kit-built. I also agree it is a bad idea to use strut equipped models to train new people.

Picture below taken 2 days ago. I always had the Telemaster ready all these years. So in case of sudden urge to fly, I can take it with me. Urge appeared Saturday, stopped working, took a break, grabbed 2 5000 batteries with me. Just 2 flights, and I go back to work, I thought.

Well, battery one, uneventful. Battery 2, all H.. broke loose and the Telemaster lost it's argument with gravity. all the sudden, it expiration date arrived.

Gerry

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

OS 61s. Not the cheap ones - not for our Army. But they weren't Fox either. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...ular_smile.gif

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

Yes the tower trainers are great trainers!

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

Wow thanks RG what an interesting story that program would make to many of us, old or new timers[8D]

John

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

Good advice on getting help from an experienced trainer. My first RC ship was a Balsa USA Swizzle Stick which I was convinced I could fly without instruction. I told my ex-wife to time this first flight so I didn't run out of fuel. There I was with this nice newly built plane and I advanced the throttle on the runway figuring I could fly it. Down the runway it went. Up it climbed. Down it rolled busting the wing into a million pieces, engine thunking to a stop. When all was quiet, my ex-wife says.... "Ahhhhh, That was seven seconds."

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

I built the Sr Telemaster for our club to use as the club trainer, I soloed with it too, just took me longer then the two young men I learned with.
As an instructor I use any trainer that is given to me, I have never bought one or built one for myself. People solo then want to get as far away from there trainers as they can? As one of the instructors they just seem to come my way and free is a great price. Some of them I don't have a clue as to the make, they all pretty much fly the same.
So far I have only lost one in a crash. After solo I let the students borrow my TX and the trainer until they buy there own plane and radio. The one loss was after solo.
As long as your on the buddy box there should never be an accident. I tell my students not to worry about crashing, there is nothing they can do that I won't be able to save the plane from.
After solo something can happen to the trainer though. If you ask around the club someone may have an old trainer they will just give you. Just use the engine and gear you will be using in your own plane. I have one now, had it for a few years, called the write, right?? Flier. I can't say how many people have learned to fly with that old dog. The plane is a 60 size and pretty beat. I did install a fantastic OS .91 FS in it though so the students have no dead sticks and have a smooth running engine. Other then that it's full of cheap gear.
Most club instructors like myself have there own trainer and box. I only ask a student to furnish there own glow fuel. I ask them not to buy anything of there own until after solo. By then they know if it's something they will want to be doing and have a better idea of what brands and types of things to buy.

RE: Which ARF Trainer ?
 

Also now available as an ARF.