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Flyswamper 01-07-2013 10:57 AM

A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
Hi folks,

I'm a 47 yr old guy that just bought his middle child (15 yr old boy) "our" first RC plane for my kids birthday.

On the advice of the shop owner, we got him a Super Cub RTF DSM. We have it assembled but haven't gone out for a flight yet. I also bought "us" the PhoenixRc (version 4 I think) simulator software. My son and Ihave both spent the last day or two playing/flying in the simulator. It was far far too windy and gusty to fly yesterday (which would have been our first flight attempt). Perhaps we'll get to fly in the next day or two.

I'm guessing that the standard advice for newbie's such as us is basically "find a club and someone to train you." While I am sure that is good advice, right now my thinking is that I/we don't want to do that. I *think* we are comfortable with self-teaching ourselves and living with the consequences of that. I reserve the right to change my mind after the first day or two of actual flying (which hasn't happened yet) but that is our mindset right now. It's more about time and energy involved to find the club and coordinate time with another person to train/learn from than anything else.

I'm thinking that we might go try the local park with a baseball diamond for our first flight. http://goo.gl/maps/Ah5s0

So..... what I am doing here... well... just soliciting any advice, criticism, tips, etc.... that you feel like throwing our direction.

Thoughts going through my head right now include:
wondering just how "over confident" we might be if we rely on getting good with the simulator and then expect/hope to transfer that to a real flight
Wondering what tips/tricks we will wish we had known that we don't (e.g. I just read something online about hand gliding to check trim settings before first flight....wondering about that and similar stuff)

wondering just how much wind we should tolerate for our first flight (I have read a post in this forum on this very subject already).


Anyway.... thanks for your tips and wish us luck!




Rodney 01-07-2013 11:17 AM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
If at all possible, locate a local flying club and visit them. Chances are very high that they will gladly check out your plane and make sure that it is truly ready for that first flight. You will be smart to let one of their experienced pilots make the first flight on it and get it trimmed out. If you try to do it yourself you are almost guaranteed to have some problems, very apt to result in extensive repairs being necessary. There are quite a few things that can be overlooked or miss-adjusted if this is your first experience at radio control.

swify 01-07-2013 11:32 AM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
I believe there is a group of people that fly electric planes near the Grey Eagle Casino. My advice would be to go there and have someone experienced check out the plane and take it up for the first flight. I don't know how well simulator skills transfer into the real world, it maybe sharpens up your skills over the winter if you already know how to fly.I don't think a simulator will teach all you need to know to go out and fly first time with no problems.

ATVAlliance 01-07-2013 11:36 AM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
The deck is stacked against you, but not impossible of course.

Learning to fly and get the correct muscle memory in your thumbs and/or fingers is one thing. Learning about your model and how to adjust the CG and do preflight checks can be a longer learning curve if you just try and figure it out on your own.

Having a club and an instructor will not only help you learn to fly with the greatest possibility of bringing your model home in one piece, but also will help explain all of the things that you need to know other than how to fly the model.

I was in your shoes about 15 years ago and tried to do it all by myself. I even read a lot online (far less info online in our hobby 15 years ago compared to today) and thought I had it all down. I ended up with a demolished airplane and quickly got out of the hobby. Wasted about 500 bucks in the process!

About three years ago I decided to give it another try. This time I first joined a club and went and watched people fly for probably the first 3 visits. I then brought my plane and was buddy boxed only 2 times before I solo'd and I havent looked back since.

I now own about 16 or 17 airplanes and 10 helis...also a couple of boats and land vehicles. All of which I can confidently fly/operate.

I may not be the best pilot in our club...but I am a decent one and without joining the club...I probably would have thrown away another 5-600 bucks and been out of the hobby as soon as I tried to start back.

If you go it alone...just be sure to get really proficient at flying the SIM first. A SIM wasnt something that I was able to afford way back when I first tried. I MIGHT have been able to do it this time without the club and my SIM...but both made it a very short affair on the buddy box and being able to solo fly for the first time was a great feeling of accomplishment. Also, read your manual for the airplane and take in as much as you can about CG(Center of Gravity) and control throws and try and understand them at their basic level. Set up your airplane as closely as you can to the manual and hope for the best. You see, not all manuals are created equal, and you can THINK you have everything right and take to the air only to find the airplane is nearly unflyable. This is whyi said that the learning curve about preflight and setup is a long one if you have to go it by trial and error.

goodluck to you and your son. Its a great hobby!

hugger-4641 01-07-2013 11:56 AM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
Ditto what has been said above. I did teach myself how to fly, and spent way more time and money than I should have because I didn't know better at the time. Now I do know better, which is one of the reasons I post on this forum, to help people like you. You have been advised, so now it's up to you.  If it's just a personal challenge thing, then by all means, challenge yourself. But if you truly want to learn how to do things right, follow the advice given to you by those who have experience.<div>
</div><div>That being said, I'll throw my 2C on something else. The open field area in your park might be a better choice for a flight area.  A baseball diamond might look like a good open place to fly, and in fact, the surface is great for take offs and landings if you can navigate the fences and electric poles.  But this is a very big "if".  I have a couple of the same plane you have, and it is a very good plane for learning, but it does not like thick grass, and  you are asking for failure if you try to make your first flight from inside the diamond. That 4 foot high fence basically takes away about fifty feet of your usable runway, which basically puts you in a "do or die" situation in which if you decide you need to make another approach, you may not be able to the clear the fence again, or most likely, you will force the plane into a stall after you do clear the fence. Just my 2C.</div>

kwblake 01-07-2013 12:40 PM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
Hey Flyswamper. I know there will be a bunch more reply's, but here is my $0.02 for what it is worth. Don't want to sound negative, but the cards are stacked against you. If you have never done this before, there are so many things involved, in this sport/ hobby that are better learned from someone with experience, than on your own. As other people have already said, teaching yourself is not impossible, but from what I have read from others, is difficult. There are many more threads here, that I have read on this subject. I also started off with a sim. and then a trainer with an instructor and buddy box. Without the buddy box and instructor, I would have lost my trainer first go, guaranteed. Another thing is that there is more to this sport/hobby than just the flying. You will meet lots of, how can I say this, interesting, people at a club. I am lucky to have a runway cut in my field at home, but I do most of my flying at the club field. Lots of really good times.

Welcome to the sport/hobby.

P.S. If you do this on your own, we WILL want photos of the remains. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...sn/biggrin.gif http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...sn/biggrin.gif http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...sn/biggrin.gif






Villa 01-07-2013 12:59 PM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
Hi Flyswamper
Without some help there is a good chance that you will have so many dissapointing crashes that you will quit this wonderful hobby. That would be sad. I have been doing it since 1972. Good luck.

mscic-RCU 01-07-2013 01:11 PM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
The flight simulator will definitely shrink the learning curve, but I still would have an experienced flyer help you and your son. It is a lot harder than it looks and it will be much more enjoyable if you didn't spend all your free time repairing instead of flying.

JeffinTD 01-07-2013 01:40 PM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
So every reply isn't negative:

You picked a great plane to start with. It is forgiving to fly, and tough. It is also from a quality brand, meaning parts are available, and things are likely to work right.

Second, great move getting a simulator, and a quality one at that. Though no substitute for flying, it gets your fingers moving in the ring direction with decent reaction time.

You may fly it fine, but chances would be better if you had help.

You may find hooking up with a club or informal flying field wasn't a bother; that the social aspect of the hobby can be a big part of the fun.

P.S. I'd wait for pretty calm days for your first few flights...

Flyswamper 01-07-2013 01:43 PM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
Folks..... I appreciate the replies thus far.  I know you may think posting something similar to what has already been said is redundant, but I'm a firm believer that often you (or I) can still glean little tidbits from each and every response.  So please keep em coming if you are willing/able to give me some feedback!

guver 01-07-2013 02:23 PM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
I self taught and one mistake I did make was underestimating the wind. What I thought was perhaps a mild 3 mph breeze was probably actually a 5-6 mph so I would say to wait for a nice clear CALM day.

If you go this alone then I would also recommend untrimming your sim plane and then take off with it and re-trim it in flight because you're going to have to do that with your plane. You and your son can each untrim the sim for each other so the one flying is unaware of what correction to make until in the sim air.

I'd also practice take-offs and landings quite a bit with a few different planes and try to find one on the sim that resembles your plane. I've never tried it , but I wonder if it might be ok to have the other person trim the plane while one is flying it. I know for me to maiden a plane and then reach for certain trim buttons during flight is sometimes a handful (especially if it's a new and fast plane for me)

Make sure you have a HUGE area with NO obstacles.

MTK 01-07-2013 02:24 PM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 


ORIGINAL: Flyswamper

Folks..... I appreciate the replies thus far. I know you may think posting something similar to what has already been said is redundant, but I'm a firm believer that often you (or I) can still glean little tidbits from each and every response. So please keep em coming if you are willing/able to give me some feedback!

There's nothing wrong with your approach. The Phoenix 4 simulator is a reasonable representation of the real thing, but let me suggest a few things to get closer to success on your own.

Trimming is the key; on your simulator, change the trim settings arbitrarily (or better yet, have your son change trims on the TX, blind to you) and then fly the Cub. Trim it as necessary to fly S&amp;L. Do this several times to get a feel of how poor trim affects flight....

Do every check defined in the manual to make sure you have the surfaces moving the appropriate amount and in the right direction as you deflect TX sticks. Make sure the CG is as defined in the manual.

Practice the landings, a lot!! I have the P4 Sim and if you can land the Sim, the real thing is a little easier

Learning by yourself with no one experienced to at least check if the model is flight worthy, can be done. That's how I learned 45 years ago, before ARFies and before simulators. Just a simple 4 channel TX with zero bells and whistles. BUT, I had built2-3 airplanes beforemy trainer that flew successfully for someone else (I built those for a guy to earn spending money in high school) so I at least knew something about set-up. With the confidence of a teen I built my trainer out of cardboard and stuck a 15 up front. The fool thing flew great and I learned quickly. So it can be done and I think you will do it

hugger-4641 01-07-2013 02:38 PM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
If you do try to go at it without help, you should browse through the Parkflyer forum. There is a very lengthy thread dedicated to the Hobbyzone Super Cub, as well as many, many other threads where this plane is discussed. When the Hobbyzone Super Cub thread was started, they were still using a brushed motor and Nicad batteries. I still have a couple of those first generation birds that are still completely stock and still fly perfect. The plane was great even then, but the addition of Lipo batteries, brushless motors, and better electronics has really made the newer version a top quality plane.

A couple things I'll mention just incase you don't pick up on it in other reading:

The first things you will break on the plane are: Propeller, cowl, struts, tail section. I would go ahead and have a spare prop and struts handy. The struts will break at the ends where they fasten to the wings. In a pinch, strip the coating from a bread tie, heat a needle with a lighter and poke a hole in the end of the strut to allow using the bread tie to re-connect them. The cowl, wings, fusalage, and tail sections can usually be glued or taped back together sufficiently enough to fly until replacement parts are bought, I have one plane that has had the wing and fusalage broken completely in half several times and is glued back together and still flying.

Another thing to pay attention to is the control throws. The manual describes the proper set up, but in their haste, many people overlook checking the elevator and rudder linkage. Everyone of these planes that I've put together had to have the elevator yoke turned in several turns to keep the plane from climbing steeply at neutral trim. Same with the rudder linkage. Make sure that the control surfaces are in the "null" position (flush and straight with the stabilizers) when the trim adjustments on the radio are centered. If you set these correctly, the plane will lift off on its own after about fifty feet of runway and climb gently with out any elevator stick input from you.


Set a timer. Your fully charged Lipo should give you 8 to 12 minutes of flying, depending on how much you stay at full throttle. Set a timer for 6 or 7 minutes so you don't run of power at a time or place that won't allow you to land the plane.

Keep the plane upwind during your entire flight if possible, this way, if your battery does go dead or something else goes wrong, the wind will blow the plane back towards you instead of away from you.

Once you get airborne for the first time, get the plane at least twice as high as the trees. Most newbies mistakenly think it is safer to keep the plane closer to the ground where they can see it better.WRONG!!! Altitude is your friend!!! Don't get so high that you can't see the plane well, but staying about "two trees" high gives you time to make mistakes and correct them before meeting the ground again!

Keep the plane within a couple hundred feet. Most newbies get excited and have a tendency to let the plane get too far away before turning back. Keep the plane close enough that you can easily see the orientation of the plane, bank angle of the wings, direction of travel, and speed. Many, many, many, crashes occur simply from letting the plane get so far away that you can't tell which way it needs to go.

<br type="_moz" />

Chucksolo69 01-07-2013 03:17 PM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
I learned to fly an HZ Super Cub by myself and still fly her almost a year later even though I now alsofly 4-6 channel warbirds. Just remember to use small, delicatemovements on the sticks and you should be fine. Try flying her on the calm, no winddays first. Here's a tip: When the plane is coming toward you after a bank, and you want to straighten her out, move the stick in the direction of the wing that is lowest. She will right herself immediately. Use 100% throttle at takeoff and settle back to 50% after she is in the air she will fly level at 50% throttle. The Super Cub will want toclimb at 75%to 100% throttle.

This is important also, buy a couple of bags of the rubber bands, they go for 6 bands for 99 cents. The stock rubberbands will deteriorate quickly. I change mine everythird trip to the flying field. When you land her, land her into the wind, bring her down by reducing the throttle and you can gradually decreasethe throttle once you begin your final approach to the landing strip. She will float in. Give her a bit of "up"elevator just before touchdown and she will settle down nicely.

BTW - In the almost 12 months I have flown my Super Cub, I have yet to crash her. She is still on her original propeller. That is how good this plane is as a trainer.


JeffinTD 01-07-2013 03:24 PM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
Actually I'd highly recommend a Li-Po alarm. It plugs into the balance lead, and sounds a buzzer when any cell reaches the voltage you've set.

Practicing trimming with the sim is a great idea.

Also it is not an uncommon practice to have someone help you trim. Particularly if the plane tends to dive, it can be tough to get off the stick and on to the trim switch repeatedly while keeping the plane in the air. If someone can give you up trim until it is close, things are much easier.

Something else to practice with the sim would be recovering the plane from a stall, or unusual attitude.

With the real model, keep it close but keep enough altitude that you can have time to recover from a mistake or two.

lopflyers 01-07-2013 04:14 PM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
I have three words of advise:<div>
</div><div>
</div><div>DON'T DO IT.         [X(]</div>

Flyswamper 01-07-2013 04:17 PM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
Very useful thoughts and tips here.

As it turns out, I guess I've kinda done the trimming exercises you are talking about in the simulator a lot already.  In the simulator anyway, I've flown the plane for extended periods with it out of trim and have adjusted trim to correct it.  I'm sure the real-world flight will be different, but I think we've already gotten in a fair bit of practice with adjusting the trim via the sim (but we'll do more...)

The sim we have (Phoenix) has our exact plane as one of the aircraft models that you can choose.  We've flow some of the performance ones in the sims and (if the simulator is any hint of reality) there is a HUGE difference in how much more difficult most of those other (performance category) planes are to fly than the Super Cub.  The simulator gives me the impression that the Super Cub we have is really really easy to fly.  My biggest fear is that the simulator isn't doing a great job of simulating real world performance. 

One things I've done quite a bit of in the simulator is to practice flying around some of the more obstacle/restricted airspace locations that you can choose from.  I've also done quite a bit of flying with the wind turned up and some fairly gusty conditions (wind gusts up to 15-20 mph).  That has certainly given me an appreciation for finding a relatively calm day,   but... we've actually managed to handle the simulator pretty good even in the moderately windy conditions (where the plane has enough power/thrust to actually travel upwind anyway)...

At any rate.... keep those thoughts coming!  It's already too dark today for us to go out and have our first crash....errr.. flight.  But hopefully we'll get one in soon!


Gray Beard 01-07-2013 04:31 PM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
Is that the three channel CUB you have?? I get a bit lost with them all. If it is then it is the same plane my grand son learned with and is still flying it. Thing is the kid was flying indoor choppers sense he was 2 and been on the Sim as soon as he could move the sticks. Been into RC cars before the choppers. I took him up with my trainer when he was 4 and the first flight I had to take control quite a bit, his second flight all I did was take of and land for him.
My point is, it can be done by some and the SIM is a big help. Not how I would go about it but give it a try. All you have to loose is the plane. There are more of them just waiting for you at your LHS. I flew every day with him over Thanksgiving and he just turned 6, he was still only 5 on that week. He is also not the norm. He is nuts for anything RC related. His little brother is into RC cars but not planes yet.
Good luck.

countilaw 01-07-2013 04:31 PM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
My suggestion is, go back to the hobby shop and buy another cub. Take it to the field with you. You will be needing it after the first 15 seconds with the first one.

Sounds harsh, but true. I know this because after 50 years of flying models and watching all the noobs with the same plans crash and burn. They usually drop out of the hobby because they don't enjoy it after all the disappointments.

Frank

Flyswamper 01-07-2013 05:51 PM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 


ORIGINAL: Gray Beard

Is that the three channel CUB you have??
Yes, it is a 3-channel one.


ram3500-RCU 01-07-2013 05:52 PM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
I taught myself to fly RC back in 1969. I had already been flying control line airplanes for several years, and my father and uncles were full scale pilots. In addition, I took the time to study and understand flight in general. Knowing as much as you can about how airplanes function will serve you well in the hobby.

Having said that, I had an uncle who flew both prop and jet commercial aircraft, and in fact spent some years working for the FAA certifying pilots on, the Lear, for instance, but he couldn't fly RC for love nor money. One of the most knowledgeable aviation guys I ever knew, and could not fly RC. The reason, he could not think backwards, or more accurately, get past the point in the learning process that you don't have to consciously think about these corrections. The turn back towards your position and the flight back is one of the bigest hurdles to master. The aileron and rudder reversal kills a lot of airplanes. Push towards the low wing when the plane is headed at you. In time, this will become second nature, and then the fun begins.

The second thing I stress with new pilots is to practice figure 8s, over and over. Learning to turn in both directions equally well is critical to flying your airplane, and not having your airplane fly you. The left turn is more natural because the torque wants to bank you that way. It takes more coordination to turn right. You'll see pilot after pilot leave the pattern to make a left hand turn on a right hand pattern, because they don't feel comfortable with the right hand turn. In many cases, these guys that have been flying for years. Practicing figure 8s will cure this, and you will be just as comfortable with either pattern, all the while enjoying flying no matter which way the wind is blowing. This may just save your plane as well someday, when you need to make that emergency right hand approach because of some mechanical problem.

The third suggestion is to practice straight and slow flight. Loops look great, but they won't help you land. Controlling your plane to the slowest speed it is capable of is critical to good landings. Practice practice practice those down hill turns from down wind to base to final. Practice them at altitude. Practice them with your power to idle. This teaches you energy management, and the need to keep that nose down on those turns to a landing.

Practice practice till the basics are second nature. Have a plan for every flight BEFORE you take off, and stick to your plan. Become a disciplined pilot, and a fanatic about maintenance. Your plane will last longer, you will gain confidence, and you will be much better able to cope with the unexpected without pushing the panic buttom, but the unexpected will be a rare thing.

Gray Beard 01-07-2013 06:08 PM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
1 Attachment(s)


ORIGINAL: Flyswamper



ORIGINAL: Gray Beard

Is that the three channel CUB you have??

Yes, it is a 3-channel one.


Good, very easy plane to fly and the kid hit a tall steel stand on one landing, I thought the plane would be toast, my little Extra would have been dead but they just picked it up, straightened the wing and his dad made him take off again and land it right. A very tough little plane.

GRandolph 01-07-2013 07:37 PM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
I self taught myself. First flight i took off and got her up in the air. But it never occurred to me that once up in the air at a safe altitude that I should reduce throttle. It was a flat bottom wing so at full throttle it got lots of lift and "ballooned" so high I lost it. Luckily I found it later and it survived!

If you have no help go ahead and try to fly by yourself. Just make sure you can't hurt anyone or their property.

HighPlains 01-07-2013 08:09 PM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
I may have trained well north of a couple hundred fliers over the last 40 years. Out of that number, I only had a two that could fly the airplane well enough the first time that they might have had a chance of repeat flights with the same airplane. The vast majority needed training to some degree, even with simulator training. Today I can sit on the sideline and usually decide with 15 or 20 seconds of watching who will be crashing that day. Yes, you can learn on your own, but your progress will be slower and you may lose interest as the trash can fills up.

P-39 fan 01-07-2013 08:24 PM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
RAM3500 has given you some excellent advise. There is a key sentence that he stated: HAVEA PLANBEFOREYOUTAKEOFF. I have seen so many newbies crash after 15 seconds because thier mind was 15 feet behind the plane. The flight then becomes a series of act / react motions followed by a spin and crash. The best advice I can give after 46 years of RC flying is get an experienced pilot to get the plane trimed and balanced out for you.Good Luck and tryto just enjoy this fantastic hobby.

Flyswamper 01-07-2013 09:02 PM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 


Again, I appreciate all the advice.  Sounds like there might be some sort of flying group near me at the Grey Eagle Casino area.  Can't say for sure if I'll heed all the excellent advice or just get my wallet ready for being hard-headed and impatient, guess we'll see.  The weather may have a fair bit to do with that as well (might make me wait longer) especially since the days are awfully short up here in Canada this time of year (no time for flying after work cause it's already dark).

Anyway....I fully realize this is *JUST* a simulator, but this is the kinda stuff I've been doing with the little plane in the simulator.... just trying to get ready...

http://youtu.be/SEQPCT-g2G4</p>

hugger-4641 01-07-2013 09:51 PM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
Nice sim video. You are obviously getting the muscle memory needed to land the plane while flying back towards yourself. But........(you knew it was coming didn't you!) I see three things that will be very different when you get the real cub in the air and you might want to work on these.

1. You took off very quickly and maintained a pretty steep rate of climb. You need to practice in a setting with more room and perform longer roll out with a more gentle climb, maybe even try taking off with only 3/4 throttle to get the feel of actually flying the plane instead of relying on the power of that brushless motor. A great many of the crashes I've had personally have been from trying to fly in a place that really didn't have enough room. If you push the limits of the plane before your skills are up there with it, you won't like the results.

2. You made a nice sharp turn and descent into final, but.......the reaction of the real plane to rudder and elevetor input will be more responsive and you will be very likely to enter a cycle of oversteer-overcorrect etc. Try practicing more gentle turns and maintaining level attitude of the plane while doing some figure 8's.

3. Your descent was very fast and in the sim video, your plane touched down quick and hard. Looked ok on the video, but the real cub will bounce up and keep flying if you come in that hard and fast. Try landing in a place with more room and get the plane to touch down by decreasing the throttle more than with elevator control. Keep the "attitude" of the plane level with the elevator, but drop the "altitude" of the plane by reducing throttle. Practice doing "touch and go's " and develop a slower glide path using the method I describe and you will have less surprises when you go to make your final flair and touch down.<br type="_moz" />

HighPlains 01-07-2013 10:15 PM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
The best thing you have going is the 16 - 17 hours of daylight in the summer. Much better than the 16 - 17 hours of night.

colmo-RCU 01-08-2013 12:17 AM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
Did you learn to drive on your own? Ride a bike? Eat? Dress? Wipe your behind? Well, rc is much more difficult than all of those beause it is done from far away. Your plane will become smaller much faster than in the sim, and you'll almost surely give the wrong side input, spinning it into the ground. I can't believe you are so thick as to go against 98% of the experienced people's advise! It's your kids' gift, why would you willingly put it in an almost-certain destruction path if it's so easily avoidable? And what does that teach your kid? That is the typical new money mentality. Just buy a dozen more if needed, my uneducated pride is more important.

I hope you don't hurt someone with your little experiment. You may be 57, but you need a lot of growing up to do.

Mariano

PS. By the way, any size of space you THINK you need is too small. Triple it and then it might be adecuate.

do335a 01-08-2013 07:23 AM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
"I *think* we are comfortable with self-teaching ourselves"

Unfortunately, regardless of your confidence, you can't teach yourself anything. You don't yet know anything about the subject. You can learn on your own but you can't teach yourself.

Teaching requires that you know something about the subject and more than the student which can be presented and explained to the student. The teacher also can present the identical material in a different way to help lead the studen to the correct end. The teacher will also correct false deductions.

Only if you knew more than you know at any stage of the progression might you be able to accomplish this. However, since you'd already know, there would be nothing to teach.

Trial and error in aviation gets very costly, takes a lot longer and can become very discouraging in a big hurry. Happy crashing and $pending!!

do335a 01-08-2013 07:35 AM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
Maybe I was wrong.

I watched your video.

You really are misinformed (clueless). However, that will change in a big hurry when you get that plane into the real world.

Anyone who would trry to fly any plane RC or otherwise in a congested area such as that shown in the video, is in for a Big Surprise. That will be even bigger due to your admitted intransigence.

You may be impatient now. Your desired course of action, if followed, will drown that quickly due to failure to achieve the objective. You will learn patience, the right way to do it or abandon the effort.

In any case, it will be a learning experience for you. And you'll have been the teacher - not for yourself but for your child.

Happy destruction!!

BTW - do you have any liability insurabnce coverage for the inevitable damage you'll do to other people's property resulting from this folly?

vega406 01-08-2013 07:36 AM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
i won one of the
SuperCubs in a drawing and had it flying in a few minutes and let a few people at the event fly it with help of coarse..the friend that has it now has crashed it many time,s in his front yard cause he won,t get help or come to me but i will say it is a pretty fixable plane..i am actually going today at my field to train and video a beginner on his trainer that has hours of sim time like you and i will send it to you on youtube and get an ideal what you are in for...the plane getting smaller and wind on your turns will be what to watch out for but i must tell you the park you are showing us is ok but be carefull of kids coming up in the danger zone not realizing this is not a toy...and i see 60 mph traffic sign so you do not want to hit a windshield...any i mean any flyer you can get a hold of to meet with you even if not at a club would also be a help...The guy who taught me had not flown in 5 years and he got it up for me and helped me with 8 flights that day out in a field and i am glad i waited for him

Flyswamper 01-08-2013 07:45 AM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 


ORIGINAL: hugger-4641

Nice sim video. You are obviously getting the muscle memory needed to land the plane while flying back towards yourself. But........(you knew it was coming didn't you!) I see three things that will be very different when you get the real cub in the air and you might want to work on these.
...

Thanks for the feedback. Your points are well taken. In fairness, that isn't anything like a situation I would really put myself in and I wouldn't fly like that anytime in the forseeable future. The point of the video was just to show that I seem to have enough control to get it down in a tough spot (i.e. hand-eye-stick coordination) ...not that that was the sort of flight I'd *EVER* actually attempt or fly like that. Because I wanted to keep the video file-size really really small, Ipurposely took off very awkwardly, climbed fast, and accepted lots of "sim" risks getting back there to setup the approach. I also turned off the sound and recorded only 10 fps for the same small-filesize reasons.

When it comes down to it, my intent is to make that first flight as very gentle *everything* (takeoff, turns, landing, etc....). I just didn't save a vid of me doing that because it didn't seem that interesting and I didn't imagine it leading to much useful advice. On second thought, however, perhaps I *should* record a little video that more closely resembles how I *think* a first flight should go and see if you guys have helpful feedback on that. I wasn't thinking it would be that interesting, but... who knows it might surprise me....


As for colmo-RCU, I appreciate the advice and any constructive criticism, but do not appreciate the attitude. I'll freely admit that I don't know what I'm getting into. But, I hope you'll afford others (such as myself) the freedom to think for ourselves and make our own mistakes. Personally, I'd much rather make a few mistakes crashing a plane than make the mistake of treating people (even in posts on an internet forum) poorly. It's a matter of priorities and what's important in life. But that is just me....
(and pssssst... by the way, Ihaven't *yet* gone against all that advice you mention.To be honest, many of the replies here have pushed me in the direction of getting help... but if I'm equally honest, your post actually has the opposite effect that you seek (i.e. the attitude just makes me want to prove you wrong that much more)... but I digress and I'm not being helpful myself so I'll stop right here....

Thanks again everyone, please don't stop sharing your words of wisdom. I *am* listening carefully to everything written and am soaking on it. Also, you never know what other beginner will come in here with the same ideas and perhaps find this thread and gain from your words of wisdom. As it is right now, I'm thinking that *IF* we do go it alone I'll try to commit to video the first flight and share with you all the gory or glory as it were... (I'm hoping for the latter but know that odds are for the former).... The video could serve either as a warning to other newbies that dare to think they can do it on their own, or it might serve as inspiration for risk takers. Time will tell I guess...

Hoping for calm weather this coming weekend!


Flyswamper 01-08-2013 07:55 AM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 


but be carefull of kids coming up in the danger zone not realizing this is not a toy...
Thanks for the reminder/feedback, I can see this being something that would be easy to overlook/forget.


and i see 60 mph traffic sign
In Canada, thats 60 km/hr.... but your point about windshields being a bad place to land is taken...
[/quote]

Twin_Flyer 01-08-2013 08:16 AM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
My .02 cents.

As others have said, find a club and seek help.

WHY try by yourself if you don't have to??

This should help: http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx

If there is no local field, that's different...

Good luck and welcome to the hobby!

Bill S.

daytonarc 01-08-2013 08:38 AM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
<font size="4">"A newbie inviting criticism of his plans"
<font size="2">OK, you may want to subscribe to the crash and rebuild forum for future pointers.
</font>
<font size="2">Getting experienced help will save time and money 99.9% of the time

Your simmulator airplane banks a lot more in turns than your model. Your model is three channel and does not have ailerons, if you land or take off with any crosswind, and the wind gets under a wing leveling it again at low altitude is difficult.

Your model has ACT anti crash technology. This uses light sensors on the top and bottom of the plane and is supposed to help you if you get in a wierd attitude (the plane's attitude not yours). If the sky is bright and the ground is darker, and you want to fly straight and level it works, but if it does not "see" what it thinks it should it chops the throttle and takes control away from you. This is a problem flying over bright or reflective ground like snow or water (could be a problem in Canada). It can also be a problem if the sky is particularly dark where it is "looking" and it wont allow you to make intended radical manuvers that may be needed to get out of a situation. Although you can turn it off on your transmitter, an accidental bump of the switch turns it back on and you will not know it is on untill you have no control! COMPLETELY DISSABLE THE ACT. This is done by finding the wires from the sensors, the 2 wires to the receiver that go to the little holes in the fusalage, 1 on top and 1 on the bottom, that have the little light sensors and unplugging those wires from the receiver. Make sure you do a preflight check of all controls after disabling this to make sure you did not accidentaly remove a servo wire.

It is your plane, fly it any way you want as long as you don't put others at risk.

If all goes well your super cub is a fun plane.

</font></font>

omnidynmc 01-08-2013 08:45 AM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
I would definitely find a local friendly club and have them take a look at your build. They will be able to offer great advice on your first flight and help you with balancing the CG of you new plane which is critical. The first flight of an untrimmed plane can be very challenging for beginner pilots, even for experienced.

All in all though it is an outstanding hobby especially for a parent/son relationship and there are a lot of folks out there will to help make your experience a positive one!

Greg

Chucksolo69 01-08-2013 08:57 AM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
Every once in a while a thread like this pops up and I just read through it and have to shake my head in disbelief. Very few members on this thread have offered any kind of encouragement and alot have been downright negative and close to rude. About 10 months ago I was in the OP's exact position and learned to fly using the aforementioned HZ Super Cub as well as a HZ Champ, HZ Firebird Stratos and the Ares Gamma 370. At the time I was taken to task by members here who ridiculed me and wondered why I was bothering with so many trainer planes. I was told that Iwould certainly crash them all and one even asked why I was wasting so much money.

Well, 10 months later, I have 15 planes, mostly warbirds, I fly at least 3every weekend. I crashed the Firebird Stratos once in all that time, on it's maiden, and have never crashed the Champ, Gamma 370or Super Cub. In fact, I have given away those trainers to friends and family, all but the Super Cub, which I still fly. Yes, I used RealFlight 6.0 after buying my first trainer, the FB Stratos, and it helped. I quickly realized that sim training, while useful in some aspects did not prepare me for the "real" world of RC flight. I guess six years of flying RC helicopters helped a bit too.

My first 4 channel plane, a Parkzone T-28 Trojan has suffered 1 crash since I have had her, and only minor damage was done to her, and she has been flying for over 6 months now unscathed. My point is this is today,not the 70's, 80's or even the 90's. With the advances in technology and materials, it is very POSSIBLE to learn to fly RC on your own now. Yes, I belong to a club, but only joined after I was already competent atflying my RC aircraft. Don't be too harsh on these newbies, after all this is a new age in RC flight. These aren't theearly days when it was almost required that you learn from an instructor. Nowadays, not so much.

My final thought is, we all crash, I have crashed my warbirds of course. Ihave fixed my warbirds to fly again. Don't forget, we were all newbies at one time or another and remember, every new pilot we get just strengthens the hobby we all enjoy.

jetmech05 01-08-2013 09:03 AM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
I have no idea why you posted at all....you already know the answers
The best and safest why to learn to fly is with an instructor
I was 46 when I learned on a buddy box....don't let the cord bother you just learn and keep your plane intact

CGRetired 01-08-2013 09:25 AM

RE: A newbie inviting criticism of his plans
 
I think he heard enough. Since this is going downhill fast, I'm shutting it down.

CGr
Moderator.


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