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  1. #26

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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?


    ORIGINAL: HerrSavage

    My engines seemed to rev higher with the oilier Sidewinder.. And cooler. Just subjective impression though..

    only because your low oil fuel was probably junk............when both fuels are done right high oil fuel definitely does not out rev low oil fuel
    Neal Smith..owner Clockwork Racing Engines

  2. #27

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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?


    ORIGINAL: 1QwkSport2.5r


    ORIGINAL: supertib


    ORIGINAL: downunder


    ORIGINAL: JohnP2

    Will you harm your engine if you use 30% and switch to 20% (or vise-versa?....
    Seeing I'm called the Mythbuster in the engines forum , no, it won't harm the engine at all. Regardless of temperature, the piston rides on a film of oil which is what keeps it seperated from the liner. So long as that oil film is continuous there's no contact so no wear and it's the oil film that holds the seal against compression, not the ''pinch''.

    As a contribution to the oil content side of fuels, my son (on my recommendation) uses 20% all castor and zero nitro. It's dead easy to tune and runs perfectly.

    20% oil in a car or plane ?
    His son has a car.

    I break my engines in on 16-20% oil and always run 20% nitro. Once broken in I drop down to 10% oil that's 50/50 castor/synthetic.

    A car engine runs just fine on high oil fuel, high castor content included. The only real difference I've noticed with high oil fuel is you lose some rpm. However, Downunder has the ability to modify or make a new head button to raise compression enough to run as well on FAI fuel as it did on normal high nitro fuel.

    Feed as much oil to an engine as it will take, and it will run well for a long time. Not to say it won't run for a long time on low oil fuel, but to the novice or even intermediate tuner, one lean run and its all over or darn close. That's why so much premixed shelf fuel has so much oil - cover the 'rookies' tails.

    Just IMHO. I don't mind not getting every last rpm from my engines; so 10-12% isn't ''high'' to me, and I always use a 50/50 castor synthetic blend now.


    I use 10-12% oil for breakin and thats it........ guys struggle to tune the race engines with such high oil contents...its severely disrups the combustion


    20% oil and no nitro ? I would rather filly my cars fuel tank with Camel piss......as that is what that fuel would run like in a race engine........couldn't run crap like like that and step anywhere near a competition engine in a competition environment........I bet the fuel never runs clear and crispy.......totally backwards thinking IMHO.....
    Neal Smith..owner Clockwork Racing Engines

  3. #28
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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?

    ORIGINAL: bikeordie092

    oh yeah argess, i did just look at my car and it has a futaba s3003 on it now, but it doesnt even have enough torque to turn the wheels unless the car is moving.
    Oh good. Let's change the topic before we make "fuels" of ourselves (pun intended... LOL).

    You also mentioned your radio takes crystals, so an analog upgrade should work fine. The S3010 I mentioned has almost twice the torque, and is a bit quicker as well, than your S3003.

    You can compare them using the links, or just go by the specs I cut and pasted. You can also see from the specs that a 6 volt battery pack can increase your power. This is true, but things arn't always what they appear.

    If you are using 4 AA regular batteries (a 6 volt system at 1.5 volts each), such as Duracell, or Energizer, etc., you will be surprised it find that replacing them with 4 AA NiMh batteries (a 4.8 volt system) will provide more power to your servos. The NiMh have less internal resistance, so under load thier voltage will stay up around the 4.8 mark, while the regular batteries (6 volt "unloaded") are likely to drop well below 4.8 volts under load.

    In this case load means steering servo load, but I noticed this years ago in small electric RC cars. They went considerably faster with the lower voltage NiMh batteries than with the higher voltage carbon on alkaline batteries, because the NiMh voltage didn't drop with load, and the other batteries did... a lot.

    Or buy a good hump-pack from your LHS for the best of both worlds.


    S3010

    http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXDTB3&P=ML

    Speed: 0.20 sec/60° @ 4.8V
    0.16 sec/60° @ 6.0V

    Torque: 72 oz-in (5.2 kg-cm) @ 4.8V and
    90 oz-in (6.5 kg-cm) @ 6V


    S3003

    http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXH288&P=ML

    Speed: 0.23 sec/60° @ 4.8V
    0.19 sec/60° @ 6V

    Torque: 44 oz-in (3.2 kg-cm) @ 4.8V
    57 oz-in (4.1 kg-cm) @ 6V

  4. #29

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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?

    ORIGINAL: supertib


    ORIGINAL: HerrSavage

    My engines seemed to rev higher with the oilier Sidewinder.. And cooler. Just subjective impression though..

    only because your low oil fuel was probably junk............when both fuels are done right high oil fuel definitely does not out rev low oil fuel

    Tornado is not junk. The Competition blend I'm talking about is pretty big in Europe for onroad I think... I hated it.

    Less oil still means narrower tuning window afaic...
    Nitro > stamp collecting, watching grass grow, cleaning room, etc.. > electric.

  5. #30
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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?

    ORIGINAL: supertib
    20% oil and no nitro ? I would rather filly my cars fuel tank with Camel piss......as that is what that fuel would run like in a race engine........couldn't run crap like like that and step anywhere near a competition engine in a competition environment........I bet the fuel never runs clear and crispy.......totally backwards thinking IMHO.....
    Then you have no clue what you're talking about. My son's car engine ran extremely well stock standard on that 80/20 castor fuel with a great idle, sharp transition and clean high speed. It was a little slower than identical car/engine combinations but a hefty boost in compression gave it identical performance (racing together) with the other identical cars using 25% nitro. Other than he could run 8 minutes to a tank compared to 6 minutes for those using nitro.

    You may also be unaware that the most powerful (for their size) engines, much more powerful than any car engine, use the exact same fuel.

  6. #31

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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?

    How does an engine run on zero nitro? I mean, isn't it made to run on nitro? If u take the nitro out wouldn't the engine be subject to detonation?

  7. #32
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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?

    ORIGINAL: bikeordie092

    How does an engine run on zero nitro? I mean, isn't it made to run on nitro? If u take the nitro out wouldn't the engine be subject to detonation?
    Actually, our engines are called glow-engines, not nitro engines. This whole "nitro-nickname" has become so poular now, I use it just because so many people never heard the term glow-engine.

    Way back when, I flew control-line planes and the fuel did not have "nitro" added. Just a alcohol/oil mix, and probably castor oil as that was a very long time ago. Here's an old can I still have:



    I used to have a similiar can that advertised a whopping 5% Nitro on the label..... going by memory..., so that tells me the stuff wihtout the Nitro label, didn't contain any.

    I made my own fuel once and it seemed to work well. Bought Methyl Hydrate (alcohol) from the Hardware Store and Castor Oil from the Pharmacy. Seemed to work fine. Wish I remembered the ratio I used for the mix, but I don't.

    I have no doubt the engines are designed for a certain nitro percentage, +/- 5% or so, so no doubt changing the compression ratio appropriately can allow an engine to run on other percentages, or in fact, no nitro at all.

    Oh, here's an old cartoon I did... just repeated it again not so long ago. But appropriate none-the-less. Basically, Play Safe!


  8. #33

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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?

    ORIGINAL: downunder

    ORIGINAL: supertib
    20% oil and no nitro ? I would rather filly my cars fuel tank with Camel piss......as that is what that fuel would run like in a race engine........couldn't run crap like like that and step anywhere near a competition engine in a competition environment........I bet the fuel never runs clear and crispy.......totally backwards thinking IMHO.....
    Then you have no clue what you're talking about. My son's car engine ran extremely well stock standard on that 80/20 castor fuel with a great idle, sharp transition and clean high speed. It was a little slower than identical car/engine combinations but a hefty boost in compression gave it identical performance (racing together) with the other identical cars using 25% nitro. Other than he could run 8 minutes to a tank compared to 6 minutes for those using nitro.

    You may also be unaware that the most powerful (for their size) engines, much more powerful than any car engine, use the exact same fuel.

    I am sorry but I know plenty about what I am talking about..

    please take a video if you can of this fuel running.........

    what are you guys running ? RTR small blocks or something ? you obviously don't race 1/8th scale or use any engine resembling a 1/8th race engine

    Also have you dyno tested said small engines ? do you have facts to backup your claims of them being the most powerful ?
    Neal Smith..owner Clockwork Racing Engines

  9. #34

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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?


    ORIGINAL: HerrSavage

    ORIGINAL: supertib


    ORIGINAL: HerrSavage

    My engines seemed to rev higher with the oilier Sidewinder.. And cooler. Just subjective impression though..

    only because your low oil fuel was probably junk............when both fuels are done right high oil fuel definitely does not out rev low oil fuel

    Tornado is not junk. The Competition blend I'm talking about is pretty big in Europe for onroad I think... I hated it.

    Less oil still means narrower tuning window afaic...

    dude I am telling you with fact how these things work..... you used junk fuel, or didn't have something else right, end of story.................just like your first 086..same thing................ but hey, what do I know about fuels and engines...I only sell thousands of engines and coach hundreds of racers how to tune nitro engines and have earned one of the best reputations in the business for my efforts..But hey what do I know about this stuff compared to the experts here LOL !!!............

    Neal Smith..owner Clockwork Racing Engines

  10. #35

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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?

    EDIT. Whatever.. Flowers and bunny-rabbits.
    Nitro > stamp collecting, watching grass grow, cleaning room, etc.. > electric.

  11. #36
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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?

    Regarding 80/20 fuel;
    I believe that´s used for Speed records like tether cars etc. But not because it produces the most power, but because it´s in the regulations.
    But they do produce some massive speed/power from those engines!

    Regarding Bad fuel;
    There are some crappy fuels on the market, if Tornado is one of them, I´m not sure.
    Lots of people that are sponsored by Novarossi in Europe also runs Nitrolux, is that a pure coincidence, knowing NR´s statement..?
    Just because lots of people use the same thing doesn't make them good!

    Oil will affect the burn rate of the fuel, so it´s easier to get the engine running cool and crisp with less oil.
    But then some think it´s easier to run a hot glow plug... I think it´s nightmare to find a good tune on a hot glow plug!

  12. #37

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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?

    the thing is a person can not judge a a fuel based on one bottle or brand...........every bottle of fuel we buy has the potential to be spoiled or contaminated....It happens far more often then I think people would realize......... Once of my customers is a chemical engineer for DOW chemicals and has tested several fuels, and several times already when a fuel doesn't run correctly it it comes back as severely contaminated or the mixture is way off the mark............. So inconsistencies do happen.... having one bad gallon of low oil fuel does not mean anything other then that gallon didn't work for you for some reason...maybe a soiled gallon or the gallon is from a bad batch...........when I make a statement like I do it is based off hundreds of racers and hundreds of race engines running hundreds of different gallons of fuel............. Low oil tunes and runs much better then high oil.....
    Neal Smith..owner Clockwork Racing Engines

  13. #38
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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?

    Bad batches of fuel happens, I mix all my own fuel these days and still get a bad batch from time to time!

    I have tried putting a race tune on my break in fuel and it´s funny, it shoots smoke rings out of the exhaust. That fuel is still not as greasy as some RTR-fuels on the market.

    Oil is good for the engine, but to much can be just as bad as to little, it´s all about quality.

  14. #39

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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?

    Is it not true though, that less oil means a narrower tuning window? Less lubrication, it would seem, requires a more spot-on tune, no? I don't really know, or actually care all that much. It's what the guy at the sorry excuse for a LHS said, but in this case it would seem to make sense.

    The Tornado Competition I tried had %8.7 I think, compared to about %12(I think..) in the Sidewinder I was running at the time. And I saw ZERO improvement anywhere, and temps go up... Ultimately my LRP, which had been going great for probably about 8-10 gallons on Sidewinder(very oily), died using that crap.. But a.) it might have sucked a bit of dirt, and b.) ten gallons is enough for any engine.. So I'm not saying the low-oil fuel killed it, by any means. But it sure as hell made no improvement.

    And furthermore, when I used to run Sidewinder %25, which afaik is even more oily than the Tornado stuff I run now(%10-ish I think..), with the exception of one or two engines, I saw consistently lower temperatures. In my particular case I'm also talking primarily .28 basher MT engines - LRP's and the like. And yes I liked these engines - ran cool, good power, easy to tune - low hassle.. SW is no longer available - only Tornado now.. And the "Competition" stuff with sub-%9 oil I do not trust, and no theoretical ranting on the internet by anybody is going to change that.

    In any case, I'm talking about the difference between about %9(8.7), and %10-12, nothing more than that..

    I also don't see the point in running %30 nitro, instead of %25.. I mean, I wouldn't anyway, because it costs more. But the conventional wisdom is that higher nitro means LOWER engine life.. Just curious as to what the theories are as to why that should not be the case..

    Nitro > stamp collecting, watching grass grow, cleaning room, etc.. > electric.

  15. #40
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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?

    Most people tune their engines to make good power, it´s in our nature! More oil will give less power as it disrupts/slows down the flame travel (among other things).
    Therefor you can run the engine richer with less oil and still make good power.
    Temperature rises from several different reasons, one is extended time from fuel burning to slow, more oil will do this.
    Then different oil´s behave in different manners, some will burn more easily and oil tend to burn slow, again heating the surrounding metal.

  16. #41

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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?

    ORIGINAL: Nitrovein

    Most people tune their engines to make good power, it´s in our nature! More oil will give less power as it disrupts/slows down the flame travel (among other things).
    Therefor you can run the engine richer with less oil and still make good power.
    Temperature rises from several different reasons, one is extended time from fuel burning to slow, more oil will do this.
    Then different oil´s behave in different manners, some will burn more easily and oil tend to burn slow, again heating the surrounding metal.

    What about the converse of this? With oilier fuel you can run it leaner, getting the good power, gut keeping temps at a not-too-high kind of level.....

    "Power" as produced by an engine is not all down to nitro, methanol, and oil, or? There's also the air...

    (ps I do not claim to be an engine or nitro guru btw. Just thinking out loud...)
    Nitro > stamp collecting, watching grass grow, cleaning room, etc.. > electric.

  17. #42

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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?

    I changed fuel this past racing season. Went from Byrons race 3000 (30%/11%) to VP powermaster 30%/9%. Noticed more power and only subtle HSN needle change. Finished up all my race fuel bashing and started using Byrons 20%/16% for the winter months bashing. ? No problems tuning at all. Did a 45 degree temp swing this weekend, yes I had to tune but no issue.

    I did run my Clocked Nova 28-7 on Byrons 20%/16% when the temp was mid 40's F and the tune was not any tougher to get crispy than when I ran the 30%/9%. It just looked different with the richer colored smoke trail is all.

    Are your theoritical performance gains coming from less oil or more nitro? I ask this because there is very little difference in the oil content or make-up in the fuels I used, but the performance was quite noticable. Maybe the difference is the nitro content and how is was mixed into the end result. Volume verses wieght? (I have no idea but remember reading about someone mixing thier own mentioning the difference).

    Wow, no nitro at all, I think I had a contol line plane when I was a kid (1970's) that used glow fuel with zero nitro. Might still be in my closet @the parents house.


  18. #43
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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?

    A lean or rich tune will also produce a shift in temperature. There are more space between fuel molecules in a lean mix so that will burn slower.
    A rich mix will also burn slower, but when it comes to the fuels we run here they tend to behave better on the rich side.

    During initial break in (heat cycling) I use high oil % and run it slightly lean, that way I get oil pouring out the exhaust, but the the engine (combustion) see a lean mix never the less and temperatures rise quickly.
    I don´t recommend this approach to anyone as things can get out of hand!!! But you get the idea...

  19. #44
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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?


    ORIGINAL: Ttowntoolman

    I changed fuel this past racing season. Went from Byrons race 3000 (30%/11%) to VP powermaster 30%/9%. Noticed more power and only subtle HSN needle change. Finished up all my race fuel bashing and started using Byrons 20%/16% for the winter months bashing. ? No problems tuning at all. Did a 45 degree temp swing this weekend, yes I had to tune but no issue.

    I did run my Clocked Nova 28-7 on Byrons 20%/16% when the temp was mid 40's F and the tune was not any tougher to get crispy than when I ran the 30%/9%. It just looked different with the richer colored smoke trail is all.

    Are your theoritical performance gains coming from less oil or more nitro? I ask this because there is very little difference in the oil content or make-up in the fuels I used, but the performance was quite noticable. Maybe the difference is the nitro content and how is was mixed into the end result. Volume verses wieght? (I have no idea but remember reading about someone mixing thier own mentioning the difference).

    Wow, no nitro at all, I think I had a contol line plane when I was a kid (1970's) that used glow fuel with zero nitro. Might still be in my closet @the parents house.

    IF you take the weight vs volume approach to fuel (we can only guess) then the lower % it is, the less of a difference there is between weight vs volume. (That is to say, if they don´t lie)

    Some say there is 5% worth of nitro for every 1% less oil there is... Highly subjective view considering there are some very powerful engines running 0% nitro and 20% oil, but maybe there is Some truth to it..?


  20. #45
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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?



    Argess, I have to say you are without a doubt the most interesting member on this forum. The whole tweety thing is simply genuis. Below is a pic from theabsolutefunniest cartoon to be used in moving pictures.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Mugen MBX6R, HB D8T, Losi 8 2.0, Savage X 4.6, Losi 810, Hyper 7, Exceed Forza
    http://www.youtube.com/user/NitroRCNerds

  21. #46
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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?

    Is that the one where Tweety drinks the Jekyll and Hyde formula and chases Sylvester?

    Thanks for the compliment, but I have to tell you it's not Tweety. It's Egghead Jr, also from Looney Tunes. I use the name Eggbert (which is close) in other forums. See link:

    http://looneytunes.wikia.com/wiki/Egghead_Jr.




  22. #47

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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?

    40 years ago they ran chainsaws with 5 to1 oil mix...now they run 100 to 1 oil mix...go figure...
    Neal Smith..owner Clockwork Racing Engines

  23. #48
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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?


    ORIGINAL: supertib

    40 years ago they ran chainsaws with 5 to1 oil mix...now they run 100 to 1 oil mix...go figure...
    That has nothing to do about oil, it was just that they kept getting lost in the woods due to fog!

    All jokes aside, many things has gotten better over the years, oil, metal, design and so on. It´s just the users that´s left behind in yesterday sometimes...

  24. #49

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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?


    ORIGINAL: Nitrovein


    ORIGINAL: supertib

    40 years ago they ran chainsaws with 5 to1 oil mix...now they run 100 to 1 oil mix...go figure...
    That has nothing to do about oil, it was just that they kept getting lost in the woods due to fog!

    All jokes aside, many things has gotten better over the years, oil, metal, design and so on. It´s just the users that´s left behind in yesterday sometimes...

    Plenty has to do with application... I run modified 1/8th race engines in high stress race environments....
    Neal Smith..owner Clockwork Racing Engines

  25. #50
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    RE: what mixture of fuel do you guys use?


    ORIGINAL: supertib


    ORIGINAL: Nitrovein


    ORIGINAL: supertib

    40 years ago they ran chainsaws with 5 to1 oil mix...now they run 100 to 1 oil mix...go figure...
    That has nothing to do about oil, it was just that they kept getting lost in the woods due to fog!

    All jokes aside, many things has gotten better over the years, oil, metal, design and so on. It´s just the users that´s left behind in yesterday sometimes...

    Plenty has to do with application... I run modified 1/8th race engines in high stress race environments....
    True, the everyday basher that´s not running high end mills and pushing it to the limit can be plenty happy with a slightly greasier fuel.
    But running the extremely high oil content fuel is not helping the beginner either... So when they get that as a recommendation from the LHS it´s not helping the newcomer...


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