How should i break it in
05-05-2006, 08:12 AM
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How should i break it in
Ok guys jus got the .18 tz how should i break it in ive heard heat cycling was good and easy any suggestions and how do you heat cycle it.
05-05-2006, 10:45 AM
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RE: How should i break it in
Below is the heat cycle method our team uses for break in. It is very effective for us, we have about 14 engines that have been broken in with this method.
Instructions on break-in:
We break in the engines while they are in the car. First set your high-speed needle rich. On most engines it is about 1 1/2 to 2 turns out. Open your throttle all the way open (during the first start of break-in, you do not need to use the radio - unless you like to listen to music while you do this j/k). Your throttle servo may hold the throttle at full unless you have a throttle return spring. If you use one, take it off for this exercise, but make sure you put it back on before you set the car on the ground to drive it. If while the engine is on, it starts to come back down from full throttle, you may have to hold the throttle servo manually.
Now, grab a heat gun or an 80's style hair dryer that gets extremely hot. Personally we use the cheapest heat gun/paint stripper we can find. This works the best and you don't have to spend a lot of time heating up the engine. Use the heat gun to heat up your engine head to 225 to 250 degrees. This allows the sleeve to expand and it will now be easier to start with less restriction and less stress on the internal engine parts. Make sure to prime your engine with fuel before you start it. Note: For this part of the break-in you want to have the wheels of your vehicle off the ground. Starter boxes work great, but if you have a pull start, use a block of wood or something to allow the wheels to spin freely. Now, when you start your engine, it may rev up rapidly and then come right down to a blubbery-like idle. Don't get scared this can and does happen sometimes. If the engine revs up and doesn't come down to a blubbery idle, then shut it down and adjust the high speed needle richer. On the opposite note, if it won't start or blubber's so bad that it shuts off, the lean it a little.
At this point you should have an engine running at full throttle with the wheels barely turning. It is very important now, to hold the heat gun on the head and keep checking to make sure the temp stays around 225 degrees. This process allows the engine to wash itself out of any small particles of metal and lubricates all the internal engine parts. Be careful with the heat gun as it can easily melt air filters or some plastic parts on the car. Before the tank runs out of fuel, shut it down and let the engine cool down. Make sure that the piston is not stuck at top dead center, or any area of the pinch zone. If it is stuck, you need to pull the flywheel until it feels free. You may need to use a flat head srewdriver or needle nose pliers on the flywheel to dislodge the piston. If the piston gets stuck within the pinch zone and cools down that way, it can have negative effects on the compression later on. After the engine is cool, repeat the process only this time you will want to turn on the radio. Remember to heat the engine and then prime it again. When starting the engine pull the throttle all the way open and lean out the high speed needle to where the wheels are turning at a much faster rate (about half as fast as it would if tuned properly - usually about 1 full turn leaner than what you have it at now). This can be a little tricky, but now you want to let off the throttle and rev it up slowly, going through the whole power band over and over. The engine is probably going to sound very inconsistent, but that is ok. You have it set at a very rich setting. At full throttle, make sure the engine clears out. At the same time you are doing this, you want to use the heat gun to heat it up around 225 to 250 degrees and let it cool down to around 190 to 200. As soon as it hits that temp, heat it back up to the 225 to 250 range, all the while reving it up and down slowly (told you this part was a little tricky). If you have a friend that can help, it makes this process much easier. What this does is starts the process of heat cycling through different rpm ranges. Before the engine runs out of fuel, shut it down, turn down the piston (if necessary), and let the engine cool. Repeat this process for one more tank.
Now you are ready to put the car on the ground and drive it. Make sure to put your throttle return spring back on, if you had one on there before. Adjust the high speed needle back to its original position (manufacturer setting) and heat up the engine to around 200 to 225. The engine should be tuned to about 75% of its full potential at this point. Run the car back and forth making sure to be smooth and go through the complete power band. Periodically check the temp of the engine and make sure it isn't running too cool. It should be running anywhere in the range of 175 to 220. If it is running below 175, you may need to drive it a little harder or lean it out a little. Before it runs out of fuel, shut it down, turn down the piston and let it cool. This is where the engine really starts its break-in. You will need to repeat this step several times (maybe 5 to 8 tanks). During the process, you may notice the engine is starting to run a little cooler. This is good. Keep leaning it and driving it a little harder to keep that temp at an average of 200 degrees. Once you have repeated this process for at least 5 tanks and been able to lean it out a couple of times, it is ready to tune for the track.
This does not mean that the engine will perform at its best yet. Most of todays engines need about a gallon of fuel through them before you will notice its full potential. Do not expect to take an engine, break it in at the track and race it that day expecting perfect results. The best thing to do is break it in like said above and take the car to the local track or area you will be running it and put some fuel through it. Tune it and run it like you would if you were racing but only tune it to about 90% of its full ability. This will help keep the heat down while the piston and sleeve are still fitting themselves properly. Usually after about 1/2 a gallon on small blocks or 1 gallon on bigger block engines, it is ready to tune to full potential and race competitively.
Instructions on break-in:
We break in the engines while they are in the car. First set your high-speed needle rich. On most engines it is about 1 1/2 to 2 turns out. Open your throttle all the way open (during the first start of break-in, you do not need to use the radio - unless you like to listen to music while you do this j/k). Your throttle servo may hold the throttle at full unless you have a throttle return spring. If you use one, take it off for this exercise, but make sure you put it back on before you set the car on the ground to drive it. If while the engine is on, it starts to come back down from full throttle, you may have to hold the throttle servo manually.
Now, grab a heat gun or an 80's style hair dryer that gets extremely hot. Personally we use the cheapest heat gun/paint stripper we can find. This works the best and you don't have to spend a lot of time heating up the engine. Use the heat gun to heat up your engine head to 225 to 250 degrees. This allows the sleeve to expand and it will now be easier to start with less restriction and less stress on the internal engine parts. Make sure to prime your engine with fuel before you start it. Note: For this part of the break-in you want to have the wheels of your vehicle off the ground. Starter boxes work great, but if you have a pull start, use a block of wood or something to allow the wheels to spin freely. Now, when you start your engine, it may rev up rapidly and then come right down to a blubbery-like idle. Don't get scared this can and does happen sometimes. If the engine revs up and doesn't come down to a blubbery idle, then shut it down and adjust the high speed needle richer. On the opposite note, if it won't start or blubber's so bad that it shuts off, the lean it a little.
At this point you should have an engine running at full throttle with the wheels barely turning. It is very important now, to hold the heat gun on the head and keep checking to make sure the temp stays around 225 degrees. This process allows the engine to wash itself out of any small particles of metal and lubricates all the internal engine parts. Be careful with the heat gun as it can easily melt air filters or some plastic parts on the car. Before the tank runs out of fuel, shut it down and let the engine cool down. Make sure that the piston is not stuck at top dead center, or any area of the pinch zone. If it is stuck, you need to pull the flywheel until it feels free. You may need to use a flat head srewdriver or needle nose pliers on the flywheel to dislodge the piston. If the piston gets stuck within the pinch zone and cools down that way, it can have negative effects on the compression later on. After the engine is cool, repeat the process only this time you will want to turn on the radio. Remember to heat the engine and then prime it again. When starting the engine pull the throttle all the way open and lean out the high speed needle to where the wheels are turning at a much faster rate (about half as fast as it would if tuned properly - usually about 1 full turn leaner than what you have it at now). This can be a little tricky, but now you want to let off the throttle and rev it up slowly, going through the whole power band over and over. The engine is probably going to sound very inconsistent, but that is ok. You have it set at a very rich setting. At full throttle, make sure the engine clears out. At the same time you are doing this, you want to use the heat gun to heat it up around 225 to 250 degrees and let it cool down to around 190 to 200. As soon as it hits that temp, heat it back up to the 225 to 250 range, all the while reving it up and down slowly (told you this part was a little tricky). If you have a friend that can help, it makes this process much easier. What this does is starts the process of heat cycling through different rpm ranges. Before the engine runs out of fuel, shut it down, turn down the piston (if necessary), and let the engine cool. Repeat this process for one more tank.
Now you are ready to put the car on the ground and drive it. Make sure to put your throttle return spring back on, if you had one on there before. Adjust the high speed needle back to its original position (manufacturer setting) and heat up the engine to around 200 to 225. The engine should be tuned to about 75% of its full potential at this point. Run the car back and forth making sure to be smooth and go through the complete power band. Periodically check the temp of the engine and make sure it isn't running too cool. It should be running anywhere in the range of 175 to 220. If it is running below 175, you may need to drive it a little harder or lean it out a little. Before it runs out of fuel, shut it down, turn down the piston and let it cool. This is where the engine really starts its break-in. You will need to repeat this step several times (maybe 5 to 8 tanks). During the process, you may notice the engine is starting to run a little cooler. This is good. Keep leaning it and driving it a little harder to keep that temp at an average of 200 degrees. Once you have repeated this process for at least 5 tanks and been able to lean it out a couple of times, it is ready to tune for the track.
This does not mean that the engine will perform at its best yet. Most of todays engines need about a gallon of fuel through them before you will notice its full potential. Do not expect to take an engine, break it in at the track and race it that day expecting perfect results. The best thing to do is break it in like said above and take the car to the local track or area you will be running it and put some fuel through it. Tune it and run it like you would if you were racing but only tune it to about 90% of its full ability. This will help keep the heat down while the piston and sleeve are still fitting themselves properly. Usually after about 1/2 a gallon on small blocks or 1 gallon on bigger block engines, it is ready to tune to full potential and race competitively.
05-06-2006, 11:05 PM
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RE: How should i break it in
Wow, thats a complicated break-in process.
Usually when I break-in an engine I first take apart the engine. I flush the whole engine out with alcohol and then nitro fuel.
I heat it up with a heat gun, make it slightly rich and run it. On the first tank I am giving short bursts of throttle. You want the engine temps to get way up there. After about 4 minutes I shut it off, and let it cool completely. Then I start it back up and run it for another 4 minutes getting that temp way up there as fast as possible. After about 30 minutes of this the important "break-in" process is complete.
From there tune to sound and performance, never smoke or temperatures.
Ryan
Usually when I break-in an engine I first take apart the engine. I flush the whole engine out with alcohol and then nitro fuel.
I heat it up with a heat gun, make it slightly rich and run it. On the first tank I am giving short bursts of throttle. You want the engine temps to get way up there. After about 4 minutes I shut it off, and let it cool completely. Then I start it back up and run it for another 4 minutes getting that temp way up there as fast as possible. After about 30 minutes of this the important "break-in" process is complete.
From there tune to sound and performance, never smoke or temperatures.
Ryan
05-08-2006, 09:40 AM
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RE: How should i break it in
It just is a long read...The process is not too difficult and it really works well in seating the piston and sleeve. I can see your process is similar and a lot quicker but I will still recomend taking your time. You may be comfortable with breaking a new engine down but a lot of guys will not want to do that.
05-08-2006, 01:29 PM
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RE: How should i break it in
I don't mind tearin the engine down is that a good idea. and what steps could i skip skid kid if i did your method and flushed out the motor.
05-08-2006, 02:23 PM
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RE: How should i break it in
ORIGINAL: skidkid
It just is a long read...The process is not too difficult and it really works well in seating the piston and sleeve. I can see your process is similar and a lot quicker but I will still recomend taking your time. You may be comfortable with breaking a new engine down but a lot of guys will not want to do that.
It just is a long read...The process is not too difficult and it really works well in seating the piston and sleeve. I can see your process is similar and a lot quicker but I will still recomend taking your time. You may be comfortable with breaking a new engine down but a lot of guys will not want to do that.
Also you mentioned let it cool to 180-190. During heat cycling you want the temp to get back to outside temperatures. You must do this with the engine off. Did you mean this and I read it wrong?
Also you said:
It is very important now, to hold the heat gun on the head and keep checking to make sure the temp stays around 225 degrees. This process allows the engine to wash itself out of any small particles of metal and lubricates all the internal engine parts.
Igotntc3andrevo
Yes, I would highly recommend taking apart a brand new engine and flushing it out with alcohol then nitro fuel. This will remove any possible metal shavings created during manufacturing as well as lubricating it for the first tank. I can't stress enough, about the importance of this step.
Ryan
05-08-2006, 04:35 PM
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RE: How should i break it in
Use the heat gun to heat up your engine head to 225 to 250 degrees. This allows the sleeve to expand and it will now be easier to start with less restriction and less stress on the internal engine parts. Make sure to prime your engine with fuel before you start it.
YOU MUST HEAT THE ENGINE TO 225 BEFORE IT IS EVER BEEN TURNED OVER...
also you want the engine to heat cycle during these tanks of fuel because the setings are so rich you need the heat gun to cycle the temperatures while the engine is running, of course after each tank the engine must be shut off and left to cool as close to outside temps as possible. Also make sure to never leave the piston at the top, always turn the fly wheel to lower the piston to the bottom, not lowering the piston will not all the sleeve to retract correctly. In fact after you run your car always turn down the piston, this will greatly increase engine life and compression. This method was adapted from TNT mods and I can tell you the engines we have put through this process have so far maintained compression and are still running strong. Before we started using this method our motors didnt last.
YOU MUST HEAT THE ENGINE TO 225 BEFORE IT IS EVER BEEN TURNED OVER...
also you want the engine to heat cycle during these tanks of fuel because the setings are so rich you need the heat gun to cycle the temperatures while the engine is running, of course after each tank the engine must be shut off and left to cool as close to outside temps as possible. Also make sure to never leave the piston at the top, always turn the fly wheel to lower the piston to the bottom, not lowering the piston will not all the sleeve to retract correctly. In fact after you run your car always turn down the piston, this will greatly increase engine life and compression. This method was adapted from TNT mods and I can tell you the engines we have put through this process have so far maintained compression and are still running strong. Before we started using this method our motors didnt last.
05-08-2006, 04:40 PM
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RE: How should i break it in
Sorry this:
Wouldn't you want to take apart the engine to clean it out before you even start it up?
Ryan
This process allows the engine to wash itself out of any small particles of metal and lubricates all the internal engine parts.
Ryan
05-08-2006, 04:49 PM
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RE: How should i break it in
forgot to answer your question Igotntc3andrevo..
For me personally I would not skip a step, breaking down the engine is a good idea. Remember alot of people have adopted many methods of break in from many different sources, I personally have used the method I posted on a dozen engines and I can say that we have been very happy with it. You can never be too cautious when breaking in a new engine, I know some guys who spend 30 minutes breaking in and start tuning for performance, I used to be one of those guys but after you spend alot of money on replacing engines, pistons and sleeves while other guys seem to run their same motor week in and week out it made me change my method and since then I have not had to replace engines due to improper break in. If an engine is broken in correctly it can last longer than you think and still be competitive. That is not to say however that if you properly break in a motor and then lean it out too much it cant be ruined in a short amount of time. Just take your time do some research and you will be fine.
For me personally I would not skip a step, breaking down the engine is a good idea. Remember alot of people have adopted many methods of break in from many different sources, I personally have used the method I posted on a dozen engines and I can say that we have been very happy with it. You can never be too cautious when breaking in a new engine, I know some guys who spend 30 minutes breaking in and start tuning for performance, I used to be one of those guys but after you spend alot of money on replacing engines, pistons and sleeves while other guys seem to run their same motor week in and week out it made me change my method and since then I have not had to replace engines due to improper break in. If an engine is broken in correctly it can last longer than you think and still be competitive. That is not to say however that if you properly break in a motor and then lean it out too much it cant be ruined in a short amount of time. Just take your time do some research and you will be fine.
05-08-2006, 04:58 PM
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RE: How should i break it in
Like I have said if someone is comfortable with breaking down the engine that I agree it is a good idea, however I have done many engines without first breaking them down and I have had success with the method I posted. But hey it is his engine so if he wants to tear it down and pre-clean it then by all means it couldnt hurt. Unless however he unknowingly nicks a gasket while disassembling or reassembling it and then he is battling a possible unknown air leak. which can be a real headache. But I will leave that up to him.
05-08-2006, 06:37 PM
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RE: How should i break it in
Ok i wil break down the motor thats no problem as ive been in the hobby for a while. but skidkid you said only have the highspeed needle 2 turns out, is that going to be enough and don't you think if it is only two turns out that the wheels will deffinitly spin if the throttle is wide open. i didn't no that it was possible to have the engine rev at open throttle and not have the wheels spin im not questioning your method i just want to make sure that i do this right as this engine did cost me a good chunk of change.
Thanks alot skidkid a
and ryan for you alls help
Thanks alot skidkid a
and ryan for you alls help
05-08-2006, 08:06 PM
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RE: How should i break it in
The OS engine already comes ready to break in. What this states is that you need to adjust the high speed needle an additional 2 turns out (varies depending on motor), basically you want the throttle wide open and the wheels barely spinning. I hope this makes more sense.
05-08-2006, 08:27 PM
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RE: How should i break it in
Wow, I didn't realize you richen it that much! Thats way too much in my opinion.
If you introduce so much fuel in to the cylinder you are increasing the compression ratio by a substantial amount! Not only are you creating extremely high stresses on the connecting rod/crank/piston(around 3 000 times a minute with each stroke of the piston) you run the risk of causing detonation by increased timing.
I like the idea of added lubrication but this is way too harmful and un-needed.
Ryan
If you introduce so much fuel in to the cylinder you are increasing the compression ratio by a substantial amount! Not only are you creating extremely high stresses on the connecting rod/crank/piston(around 3 000 times a minute with each stroke of the piston) you run the risk of causing detonation by increased timing.
I like the idea of added lubrication but this is way too harmful and un-needed.
Ryan
05-08-2006, 08:49 PM
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RE: How should i break it in
This method is used by tons of racers... We obviously have different methods, if your method works and he is comfortable using it then he will. Our method has never failed me, and I really dont feel it neccessary to expand on it any further. I appreciate your input however. Like I said before I got this method from tntmods and all the guys using it have reported none of the issues you mentioned.
05-08-2006, 08:53 PM
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RE: How should i break it in
is it better to heat cycle it or run it by the book for warranty how much better performance does it give it? thanks this is only my 2nd truck and i bought a savage x it says to let it idle and mine wont stay idling for 2 long i live in il. what do u guys think i should do? thanks
i want it to run good and last long ,,, thanks
i want it to run good and last long ,,, thanks
05-08-2006, 08:59 PM
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RE: How should i break it in
Don't just let it idle for a tank, you must get the temps way up there for proper break-in. I most definitely would use either of the heat-cycling methods described in this post.
It will increase engine life and reliability.
Ryan
It will increase engine life and reliability.
Ryan
05-08-2006, 09:45 PM
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RE: How should i break it in
I agree with Ryan. Any heat cycling method is better than letting it idle it just tears up the piston and sleeve without proper heat.
05-09-2006, 07:40 PM
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RE: How should i break it in
I have been reading over all these different break in methods and frankly. Why not just run the motor rich (let it smoke to hell) this will lubricate the motor. As far as the glow plug goes just keep the igniter on the plug for a tank. Am I that far off base??
05-09-2006, 09:19 PM
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RE: How should i break it in
ORIGINAL: maddogf150
I have been reading over all these different break in methods and frankly. Why not just run the motor rich (let it smoke to hell) this will lubricate the motor. As far as the glow plug goes just keep the igniter on the plug for a tank. Am I that far off base??
I have been reading over all these different break in methods and frankly. Why not just run the motor rich (let it smoke to hell) this will lubricate the motor. As far as the glow plug goes just keep the igniter on the plug for a tank. Am I that far off base??
If you want the most reliablity/life of an engine.
Heat cycling is the best way to achieve this.
Ryan
05-10-2006, 06:19 PM
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RE: How should i break it in
Okay, so I now think I have it. Run the motor around 200-250 let cool. Do several times running rich for lubricating. I know guy's your probably scratching your head's saying "This guy maddog has no clue." Well I learning, and I know one thing for sure the shortest distance between to points is a straight line. Just trying to keep this as simple as I can.
