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Nitro Guide and FAQs

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Old 05-03-2007, 11:38 PM
  #51
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: downunder

I had to go back and read everything again and I didn't notice anything about running rich is bad...maybe there was some misinterpretation about getting the engine up to 200-240F for the running in process. However there's a very wide spread belief that running a new ABC type engine rich is bad for them and because of this belief no one takes the risk of running them rich so the belief perpetuates.

I've never really believed rich running would harm a new engine but I had no way of knowing if I was right or wrong until I managed to pick up a brand new ABC very cheap so I could consider it to be somewhat expendable. It had a very good pinch so I decided to run it extremely rich right form the start and monitor the pinch between runs to see what happened. Also between runs I'd take off the muffler to check as much of the piston as I could see.

I ran it for 45 minutes in a slobbering rich 4 stroke with a head temp of 145F and the pinch stayed exactly the same as from new. I stripped it down completely and the piston had virtually no sign it had even been run. The conrod however was running in beautifully . Curiously, although the piston itself looked brand new, the chrome liner was also running in beautifully. I'll keep this short because if anyone's interested in the full test with photos I have it in the engines forum at http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_28..._1/key_/tm.htm

OK, so why didn't it ruin the piston because everyone knows an ABC has to be up to temp to expand the liner and relieve the pinch (which is an interference fit)? This took me some time to figure out and I can only come up with one answer. Our engines are cooled in 2 ways, one by airflow over the fins and the second by internal cooling from the evaporation of fuel in the crankcase. Now when you run rich (or very rich in this case) there's a lot more fuel to evaporate in the crankcase. The piston spends most of its time down in this fresh mixture so the inside of the piston is continually wet with raw fuel which then evaporates off it's inner surface including under the crown and cools it down. The upper part of the liner however only has contact with heat from combustion (and some heat from compression) so it runs hotter and expands away from the piston. Leaning out the mixture reduces the internal cooling of the piston allowing it to expand more.

Since doing this experiment I've changed my method of running in an ABC type engine. I start with 4 stroking rich to start the rod bedding in then gradually lean out to slowly build up heat in the piston and let it gradually adapt it's size to the liner. My son used this system in his car and it worked extremely well.

I'm not saying this is the only way to run in an ABC because most seem to survive the usual hot method quite well, basically the experiment was just to find out if rich was bad. It isn't.

This is very tru i run all my engines slighlt rich and I RUN MY MOTORS i have cars doesing speeds that most of the people on this thread couldnt even dream of doing and all my engines look exactly how urs does............i run odonalds 30% and makes sure i shim them for 30%(most people have no idea what that is)i have motors running strong after 13+ gallons............my longest lasting motor was a HPI K4.1 that ran 18 gallons and i never let it get over 220 degrees and still it ran like and animal AND the only reson i no longer use it is becuase the crack shaft broke and its not worth replaceing.........most on my engines run at 180 190 200 degrees and thats all thats needed


i dont see much info in this thread worth keeping around............if i was a modd i would delete hole thing............
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Old 05-03-2007, 11:47 PM
  #52
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I am curious, what is the exact metallurgical composition of our brass sleeves and out alum pistons? Sinc different materials (or allows of materials) have different expansion rates for the temperatre, if one engine maker uses a differnt compositioon of brass than onother and likewise for their pistons, it is actually concievable that some engine require more heat to reach proper operating temps where another would need to run cooler. I assume the engine makers designed the taper angles to match the metallurgies of their pistons and sleeves to match the expansion rates and for the amount of heat they are supposed to be operating in.

Foe example: An engine with a piston and sleeve that do not expand vey much will logically have a taper angle that is very small. An engine with a piston and sleeve that expandes moer from heat would have a steeper taper angle. This type of engine could concieveably be hurt from running too cool (from being too rich or otherwise).
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Old 05-03-2007, 11:57 PM
  #53
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I broke in my OS engine pretty rich last week using a sort off heat cycle method, very happy with the outcome. After past 1litre/quart used on break-in and tuning i still cant spin the engine over with my finger using the flywheel. It ran around 170deg

Very happy with the low end power, keeps making my tyres pop off the rim and its not even fine tuned to its max potential

I still believe running on the rich side is the safest way. I wouldnt recommend breaking in an engine in a near "tuned" state. Its not just the piston and liner that needs lubrication.

EDIT:
You might wanna put a warning or a pre-caution for the readers of this guide unless your willing to pay for their engines if it does happen to seize using your methods.
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Old 05-06-2007, 03:56 PM
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bump
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Old 05-08-2007, 03:16 PM
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My engine is leaking somewhere near flywheel. I clean it and after a night over the flywheel gets wet again. Is that normal ?
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Old 05-08-2007, 03:28 PM
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that would be from the from bearing leaking or your carb leaking somewhere (most likely the first option) how much is it leaking, if its more than a few drops then the front bearing needs to be replaced
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Old 05-08-2007, 03:41 PM
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well since RCU wont let me edit my original article anymore, here is the FAQ section, which was written by the other guy in my group, and for the love of God please don't start this flaming crap and counting grains of salt (it's not perfect, get over it)

Top end needle valve(also known as High end needle valve, main needle valve, etc.) – this is the mixture screw on an R/C engine that is usually the largest of the potential 3. It will usually reside on the carburetor body either facing straight upwards (perpendicular to the ground when the car is sitting on the ground) or slightly off. Most of the time, it is housed inside of a bronze or gold colored housing.

Low end needle valve (also known as Bottom end needle valve) – this is the mixture screw on an R/C engine that is located on either the rotating arm of a rotary valve carburetor, or on the end of the slide of a slide valve carburetor.

Midrange Needle valve – This is the mixture screw that is located opposite of the Low end needle valve. It is used to fine tune the mixture setting on high end racing engines. Sometimes, it is included as a marketing gimmick for sport engines, but should never be adjusted until you are very experienced at tuning engines.

Lean – Fuel mixture setting where not enough fuel is getting into the engine. On an R/C engine, we correct a lean setting by turning the adjustment screw (needle) counter-clockwise (as if you were loosening the screw).

Rich – Fuel mixture setting where there is too much fuel entering the engine. On an R/C engine, we correct a rich mixture setting by turning the adjustment screw (needle) clockwise (as if you were tightening the screw).

Flooded – An engine that is flooded has too much fuel inside of the combustion chamber and/or crankcase to actually start and run. It may pop and fire, but it will not actually run.

Hydrolock – Condition describing a situation where an engine has too much fuel inside the combustion chamber and crankcase. This is an extreme example of an engine that is flooded.

Vaporlock – Condition describing a situation where an engine is actually hot enough to evaporate the fuel from the carburetor before it enters the crank case or combustion chamber of the engine. This can make an engine nearly impossible to start until the engine is allowed to cool at least 5-10 minutes.

My engine slows down and dies after idling for more than a few seconds (long enough to let a car pass by or during a pit stop). I must sometimes de-flood it to get it to restart (Hydrolock). It is also sluggish off the line and spills quite a bit of oily gunk out of the exhaust.

This is caused by a rich mixture setting. If your engine idles down lower and lower until it dies, try leaning it out 1/8 of a turn and see what happens. 1/8 of a turn often is not enough, but if the condition seems to improve, keep going until you find the sweet spot.

After running for a few minutes, my engine dies and I have to wait several minutes before I can get it to restart. It ran great right after I started it. What could be wrong?

This is usually caused by one of three things.
Too Lean: Your needle settings are too lean (especially top end needle). Try richening it 1/8 of a turn at a time and see if the condition improves.
Too lean can also contribute to another side effect of Hydrolock. The remedy is the same. Richen the engine.1/8 at a time
Worn out: unfortunately, after time, nitro engines do wear out. If you are running a rich mixture setting and no overheating is occurring, but it still dies and must cool before restarting, you are most likely due for a rebuild or a new engine.

After several minutes of running, my engine dies. I can’t run it any richer without having it bog down, and it’s not overheating. Any ideas?

This can be a sign of too hot of a glow plug. If richening the engine doesn’t stop it from flaming out due to high temperatures, try a colder glow plug.

My engine cuts out right off the line, but seems to be okay once it’s got some rpm built up.

This is normally a sign that your bottom end needle is too lean. The engine is cutting out because it does not have enough fuel for strong acceleration. Correct this by richening the bottom end needle in 1/8 turn increments until the condition is rectified.

My instructions say my engine may run around 280 degrees. However, it’s running at 220 degrees right now, and it seems to be doing fine. Should I lean it out?

NO! Many times, engines will run at what seems like an abnormally low temperature compared with what you may read or see elsewhere. Do NOT tune by temperature. Your High Speed Needle is not a thermostat.

I bought a giant cooling head and now my engine runs poorly. Why?

The problem with many aftermarket cooling heads is that they are simply too large to be functional in most conditions. If you live in a very hot and humid environment, sometimes it is necessary to purchase a larger cooling head to keep the temperatures within the reasonable range. However, in normal climates and in colder weather, most times an aftermarket cooling head will simply make your engine run so cold that it will never actually reach operating temperature. This is not only hard on your engine, but will cause a performance drop as well.

My engine runs inconsistently. The idle may be good at one time, but floats around other times. Also, sometimes it runs great on top end, but other times it cuts out or even bogs on top end. I’ve tried richening and leaning all I could. Any ideas?

Try resetting your engine to the factory needle settings. If this does not work, you may have an air leak.
Be sure there is absolutely no oil or fuel anywhere that it shouldn’t be. Check the fuel tank for pressure, and replace fuel lines. Also, make sure your gaskets on your engine and between your pipe and manifold are not leaking at all. If this doesn’t work, seal up the carb and replace o-rings as necessary. Check the head bolts for tightness and make sure fuel isn’t leaking around the glow plug.
Sometimes, unfortunately, this can also be a sign of blow-by in the combustion chamber. This is most commonly caused by foreign materials being pulled through the engine, but can also be a sign that you have simply ran the engine through its life cycle. Time for a new engine or a rebuild!

My engine will run OK for a bit, but sometimes randomly shuts off. It also seems to be running as if it was rich, but leaning just seems to make it worse. And if I lean it too far, it shuts off but still seems to be rich.

Most of the time, this is caused by either bad fuel, too cold of a glow plug, or too low of a nitro content in the fuel. First, try a new glow plug, or maybe a hotter plug. If this doesn’t work, a new jug of fuel might be in order. If it turns out the new fuel doesn’t do the trick, you may need to bump up the nitro content by 5%. 99% of cases will be fixed by either the glow plug or new fuel. But in rare circumstances, a higher nitro content may be necessary.

My engine won’t start. It’s like the starter battery is dead because the engine won’t turn over. Sometimes it’ll go a little bit but it gets stuck. It won’t even turn over with the glow plug taken out!!!

Don’t worry! This is perfectly normal, especially on Traxxas vehicles equipped with ez-start electric starters. The reason for it is the high compression nature of our small 2-stroke engines. The best plan of action to rectify this situation is to simply heat the engine up by shooting it with a heat gun (or hairdryer if you don’t have a heat gun available) until it is heated up to about 100-120 degrees. This is very uncomfortable to touch with the fingers (for most people anyway). This loosens up the compression just a smidge so that the piston may more easily move within the sleeve inside the engine.
*Note: Don’t melt your fuel tank 

Got a new engine installed and now when I start it, it runs off and I have to hold the brakes to keep it from going. What’s wrong?

Check and make sure your linkage isn’t forcing the throttle open with the throttle trigger on your radio at neutral, and make adjustments as necessary to fix the problem. Make sure your trims are centered also. If not, be sure that simply moving your trims don’t make the car stop trying to run away.
Another mechanical cause of this can be a worn out clutch and/or bad bearings. Break-in is especially hard on clutches and bearings due to the excess slipping which causes lots of heat build-up. If your clutch has melted or the spring has stretched, the clutch will not disengage properly and will keep the car trying to move even at idle.
Otherwise, you may have a simple tuning issue. The idle may simply be too high causing the clutch to be partially engaged which will make your car try to run off.

My engine is hydrolocked (Flooded). How do I get it unlocked?

The easiest way to remove fuel from a hydrolocked engine is to first remove the glowplug from the engine. Next, turn the entire vehicle upside-down and activate the starter. Either pull the cord or run your electric starter until raw fuel stops pouring out of the engine. This will probably make a mess. After this, reinstall the glow plug, reconnect the starter glow plug wire (if necessary), and try to start the engine again.

My engine is flooded but still turns over with the starter hooked up. Can I get it running without pulling out the glow plug?

A nifty trick in this situation is to simply pinch the fuel line and attempt to start the engine. It may take a few seconds, but the engine will usually fire up and run. Once you hear the idle starting to climb, let go of the fuel line and drive your car.
This tip can also be used to finish flushing out the excess fuel after de-flooding the combustion chamber, since there may still be some fuel residing inside the bottom of the crank case that won’t come out when turning the engine over upside-down.

My engine will not draw fuel! My needles are at factory settings but it won’t pull fuel into the carburetor.

You may be too lean. Check your needle setting. If you’re not around that 3-4 turn mark, reset it to the factory setting and try again. Otherwise, you may have a blocked needle. A nice tip for this situation is to first check your main needle setting. Remember where it is and remove the needle itself (just the part that you can remove with a flat head screwdriver. Not the entire assembly). After you have the needle out, place your finger over the exhaust stinger and activate your starter. Fuel should shoot out of the needle (makes a bit of a mess). Place the needle back into the housing where it was, and try to restart.
If this doesn’t work, or fuel won’t run out of the needle with the above tip, you may have an air leak in the exhaust. Fix any leaks and your engine should draw fuel.

My engine will idle decent if I keep the vehicle off the ground or if I don’t try to stop it from rolling. It wants to keep rolling if on the ground and will die if I stop it.

The most common cause of this situation is either a locked clutch or seized clutch bearings. Try to spin the spur gear in both directions (forward and reverse). If you feel excessive resistance (make sure your brakes aren’t engaged) and your engine is trying to turn over with the rotation of the clutch bell, take your clutchbell off and make sure your clutch/bearings are in good shape. 99% of the time, they will need replacing if you’ve read this far.

My engine idles if I leave the glow plug igniter on it, or if I hold down the button on my starter (ez start) but if I take the igniter off or let go of the button, the engine will die almost instantly.

Most of the time, this is caused by a rich mixture setting, an engine that's just not up to operating temperature yet, or a burnt out glow plug. Most commonly, the settings are just too rich. Leaning out the bottom end will fix this most of the time. If it doesn't seem to help, put the needle back where it was originally and try a new glow plug.

My car is in front of my house still running. How do I shut the engine off!?!?!?!?!

Placing your finger over the exhaust stinger is probably the most common way to shut off a nitro engine. This has its ups and downs though. It’s easiest and quickest to do, but can also cause the engine to flood, thus making the next restart more difficult. You may also notice that the end of the pipe stinger may be hot.
Another popular way to stop a nitro engine is to smack the flywheel from underneath with something. I see many people use their finger, but this can be dangerous; especially if you miss and don’t hit it hard enough. It can cause burns. Other objects like your shoe or a screwdriver work very well, and it doesn’t flood your engine
Pinching the fuel line is another good way to shut off your engine, especially if you are done running for the day and want to pick it up again in the morning. This will cause most of the fuel to be burnt out of the engine, but is still no replacement for burning the tank dry and using after run oil. The engine may require priming on the next restart. This is normal.

Which is worse? Too rich or too lean?

Overly lean running is MUCH worse than overly rich running. Lean running deprives your engine of oil as well as causing excessive heat build-up; both of which will dramatically shorten the life span of your engine. An overly rich setting will cause the engine to wear slightly quicker, but if you always run it equally rich, it will last just as long as if you were to have it at the optimum setting.

How do I reset my needles to the factory settings?

Screw the top end needle in till it stops. DO NOT tighten it down an “extra 1/8 of a turn” or anything like that. You can break it if you torque it down at all. After that, count FULL ROTATIONS. DO NOT mistake a half rotation for a full rotation. It is very easy to do as a beginner, and I once did it myself. However, if you do, you’ll be at 2 turns out instead of 4, which is the difference between an engine that is slightly rich and an engine that is so lean it may not even start. As for the bottom end, do the same if your manual recommends a setting from a closed position.
If you’ve lost your manual, most newer engines will run with 4 turns out from closed on top-end and a bottom end needle that is flush with the end of the arm it is screwed into.
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Old 05-08-2007, 03:41 PM
  #58
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thx

my mill is a lrp .28 truggy spec. What kind of bearing should i buy ? Is it someting specific for the engine or are they all same ?
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Old 05-08-2007, 04:16 PM
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Default RE: Nitro Guide and FAQs

its best to ask this question in another thread (like the 2 you already have on the same thing) the answer is in your other thread(s)
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Old 05-09-2007, 12:02 AM
  #60
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Awsome Thread guys next time Ive got questions im reading this first....
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Old 05-10-2007, 03:53 AM
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very very very very nice informational thread!!!
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Old 05-10-2007, 09:09 AM
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thx for the help in my thread "hpi apollo".

how do you guys understand if a clutch is in good condition or not (physically) ?
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Old 05-10-2007, 06:55 PM
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a clutch is good if:
-shoes are not melted/glazed
-springs are not borken and consistent
-bearings turn smoothly
-assembled correctly
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Old 05-14-2007, 10:37 PM
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Bump[&:]
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Old 05-16-2007, 07:43 PM
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bumparoony
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Old 05-17-2007, 03:38 AM
  #66
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jesus... there are a few "A" holes flootin around here.. anywhom. hey Sean, you never answer my question[:'(] hows the savage project going?
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Old 05-17-2007, 04:42 AM
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i really do think this thread should be stickied, it answers a lot of commonly asked questions, bravo to you
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Old 05-17-2007, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: iexion

jesus... there are a few "A" holes flootin around here.. anywhom. hey Sean, you never answer my question[:'(] hows the savage project going?
i sold the savage to finance my laptop....i do agree that it should be stickied
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Old 05-18-2007, 11:13 AM
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Nice job, loads of info & well written. I will be linking ppl with problems to it.
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Old 05-20-2007, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: IOWAREVO

Nice job, loads of info & well written. I will be linking ppl with problems to it.
link it to people as much as you can, thanks

-Sean

p.s. BUMP
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Old 05-22-2007, 05:11 PM
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come on people, keep bumping this thread up and PM'ing the mods to get it stickied, thanks
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Old 05-23-2007, 09:38 AM
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It probably won't be stickied because of the bickering on the first page.

But anywho, I dug this tread up because I have two questions

First, as I accelerate I have a decent stream of smoke. but at WOT no smoke! Is this still too lean

Second, I can't remember where I saw this but someone says if you let off and your engine doesn't come to idle real fast then you are too lean. Mine does seem to take awhile. So let me know what you guys think
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Old 05-23-2007, 03:53 PM
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1. as long as the engine isnt stumbling or losing power, its fine, its harder to see smoke the faster you go
2. try richening up just a tad
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Old 05-25-2007, 12:02 PM
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BUMP ur dam self Bump
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Old 05-27-2007, 03:20 AM
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I have a small amount of fuel dripping from my exhaust when I am running it @ idle. It does this when the car is tipped a bit to the side so that the exhaust faces downward...does that mean its too rich? I've tried leaning it out 1/8 turns but then it sometimes has a harder time starting up. Right now it doesn't bog at all and gets off the line pretty well, but I'm just concerned about the fuel wasted.
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