Oliver_Klozov

Im going to make a body for my car that almost scraps the ground also. I have some thin plastic that can be molded. The body will just be a hump like up the front down the back nothing fancy just aerodynamic ..like a speed bump hahaha

STR33T_RAC3R

You should always run the front of your car slightly lower than the rear.

And a refined engine will be much better than a stock one.

supertib

A Hot Modded Nova pulls no higher Hp then a bone stock 528...... Hot barely does a single thing to ther motor, its definitely not the craziest modded motor by any means...... a Modded V-Spec wont even come close to a stock 528..... there is no replacement for displacement period......

I run both a race .21 and a race .28, thee is no comparison, the 28 is much faster and stronger....the 28 has more tq and more HP...

Oliver_Klozov

thanks super thats kinda what i thought that there is no .21 that can keep up with a high end .28

STR33T_RAC3R

Of course there is. Look at the miami guys high speed cars they use .21 engines because they get the car going the fastest.

No replacment for displacment? Your having a laugh.

Lotus Exige 0-60 4.7 tourqe/rpm 126/5000 1.8litre
Ferrari 456 GT 0-60 5.1 tourqe/rpm 398/4500 5.5litre

It's called weight reduction and a refined engine.

If you went out and got the best .21 and .28 money could buy then got them both modded, the .21 would beat it all around the board period....

Weight is useful in a steam roller.
Tourqe is useful in a oil tanker.

Anthoop

Ok.So using your example of the Exige and the Ferrari,if you put the Ferrari engine in the Exige would it be slower?!![sm=lol.gif]

STR33T_RAC3R

Okay i will ask you a question. Will it fit.

I know theres no point it talking to you about this subject Anthoop, you have a .28 in an on road car. You don't have a clue what makes a car fast.
Why don't you go the full way and replace the .28 with a turbine?

Or is that kind of power a bit out of your league?

How about this as an example.

If you take the miami boyz 100mph cars took out their .21 engines and put in a .28 would it be faster?
I will save you the trouble in asking them and tell you the answer is no.

People have already told you Anthoop the .28 engines have a completly different powerband they are designed for heavy offroad vehicles.

In reply to your original questiion though.

Ferrari 360 modena 0-60 4.7/3.5 litre/275 tourqe.
Ferrari 456 GT 0-60 5.1/5.5 litre/398 tourqe

Both max out at 185mph. Your the expert Anthoop you tell me.

Anthoop

Ok.So here we are again.[sm=lol.gif]
If you put the 456 motor in the 360 Modena will it be slower?!!!

STR33T_RAC3R

Your the expert Anthoop you tell me, your laughing as if you know.

Cars are built from the ground up and Ferrari know exactly how to build racing cars. So i would say yes it would be slower probably by quite a lot.

Your problem Anthoop is you have no idea what a racing car is.

ttoks

i think a lot of people are missing the point with this, what matters is not how much torque the engine makes, it is how much torque that engine with that gear ratio can get to the ground, horsepower is rpm+torque right? that means if you have two engines, one is a 3.5 liter v 8 engine, and the other is a 7 liter v 8 engine, the 3.5 liter v8 revs to say 11'000 rpm, and makes it's 400 hp at 10'000 rpm and say 300 NM of torque at 6'000 rpm, then the 7 liter v8 revs to 5,500 rpm, makes its 400 hp at 5'000 rpm, and 600 nm of torque at 3'000 rpm (i havn't actually done any calculations there, they are just used as an example)

now if you put them both in similar cars with similar gear ratios, the 3.5 liter is going to bog down and not make enough torque to get any speed, while the 7 liter will be able to easily pull the rpm and get to 150 mph, but then lets say you take the 3.5 liter, and instead of running it through a 1:3 diff like the 7 liter, you run it through a 1:6 diff, so now both engines get the same amount of torque to the wheels.

then the lower revving, higher torque engine has an advantage, it doesn't loose as much power in the drive train from bearings and the such having to spin faster, to the 7 liter will in reality be quicker then the 3.5 liter.

SAVAGEJIM

You will have to make custom gears of course. The current available gears for the RC10, even aftermarket gears, are not high enough to reach 100MPH even with a high perfromance .28ci big block engine screaming at close to 40000RPM.

One thing you must keep in mind: our model nitro engines are very very very weak at producing torque. I doubt even a big block will have enough torque to turn high gears required to push you RC10 to 100MPH even with the engine turning 35000RPM

Let me put this into perspective: full sized gas engines in the cars we drive will make one max 1ft-lbf torque to each max HP (at least that is what the most car makers shoot for). That means a 4cylinder that makes 120 max HP will also make 120ft-lbf max torque (or around that).

Nitro engines do not even make 1ft-lbf! Engine advertisers use oz-in, and this is how small an oz-in is: It takes 192 (One Hundred Nintey Two) oz-inches to make ONLY one ft-lbf!
So, even a nitro engine SAE corrected to produce 2BHP will not even produce HALF of a single ft-lbf! Looking at the numbers, I have never seen a nitro engine making more than 100oz-in once corrected for real world conditions. Some SERVOs produce more torqe than any nitro engine. The Hitec HS 5995TG, for example, produces 416oz-in at 7.2V! That is more than 2 (Two) ft-lbf!

One way you can combat the torque loss for such very high gears your RC10 will need to push 100MPH is to mount TWO engines; this will require considerable more mods and your RC10 will become a dedicated straightline speed vehicle, not a nimble track minded racer.

Anthoop

No,my problem is you talking rubbish!

Sorry.Yes i forgot how you know everything about me and also everything in general!
My apologies!!

SAVAGEJIM

Pay no attention to that statement, like you said, it is absolute and utter rubbish since it is only an opinion and not a fact. How does he know you do not actually race? Your post was only an example to reflect weight to torque ratio. (So was his, but you both understood the point.)

Anyways, there are many aspects for RCs, not just racing. Someone might be seeking a powerful .28ci engine for racing, so that is all good so long as they know the requirements of racing application.
Someone might be seeking a .28ci engine for low speed bashing. Again, that is all good so long as they slect an engine best for that application.
Also, someone might me making an on-road speed freak with a .28ci engine in mind to replace a small block. This is all good also so long as they know the requirments of that application too and realistically know that their car would not necesarilly be suitable for racing.

supertib

Seriously a .21 doesnt make more power then a .28.....compare a Ninja .21 to a Ninja .28.. the .28 kicks its ass all over the board.... there is no replacment for dsplacment.... a motor is a air pump, the more air it pumps the more power it makes, more displacment means more air being pumped every stroke, which in turn means more power........... there is a reason why buggies are limited to .21 and truggies to .28......as well there is a reason why every form of sanctioned racing has displacement limits, as bigger motors are better then smaller motor, thgere is no replacment for displacement..

i own a Picco P7 EVO 2 ( race .21) and a Picco P3 28 FTT....... as well as a STS .21T and a STS .30...as well now a Ninja .21 and Ninja .28....in all 3 cases the bigger motors out perform their smaller counterparts......

My very good freind runs a CEO modded RB C6... i run my self modded P3 28..my P3 28 completely anihalates the CEO C6.... so much power difference it cannot even be compared.....

Anyways i call BS on anyone insinuating a race .21 will beat a race .28...bigger engines make more power its as simple as that....

and here is a dyno of a Ninja 21 against a Ninja 28......... Gues which is faster ???? DUH !

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/...0-209853_a.jpg

STR33T_RAC3R

See here you go again.

Big engines are best. RUBBISH!

I will agree once you find a car that can beat an F1 car which has a 3.1416 litre engine around a track. Which is limited to 19,000rpm.

Until then stop saying tourqe is best because it clearly is not. You are quite simply wrong.

Look at r/c dragsters. .21 engines are faster than the .28's.
Engines on a dyno is not around a track. A lighter object always accelarates, deaccelarates and turns faster than a heavier one.
A .28 in a truggy is over kill because it's as light as a feather. The white truggy in this video has a .21 Rossi Mamba in it which is by no means the best .21.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGKIhogRgzc

Tires can only grip so much massive tourqe causes the wheels to spin. The .28's for sale are designed to turn big heavy monster trucks with huge wheels.
If you want a "Top speed" vehicle simple. Use a jet turbine.

SAVAGEJIM

To an extent, yes, I agree. You are speaking in terms of internal design of these enines. The reason why .28ci engines are meeting and exceeding ther performance of .21ci engines is because of internal design and port configurations. Before .28ci became a sanctioned racing legal displacement, engines larger than .21ci lacked the race designs that many .21ci engines have; .21ci engines therefore during that time spanked the .25ci, .26ci, and .28ci engines like crazy. Then, when .28ci became santioned racing legal, engine makers started to throw race designs and timing profiles into them. That was when .28ci engines began spanking .21ci engines.

Right now, there are .46ci (7.7cc) and even .70ci engines out there, but many .28ci engines will outperform these especially at high RPMs. This is because these extremely large engines totally lack any race designs and do not have the timing profiles to make them perform at faster RPMs, even though these massive engines will totally spank ALL .28 engines in low end torque. But if these engine displacements were to become sanctioned race legal, you will see a whole slew of engine makers making engines of these displacements that include all the race designs and aggresive timing profiles.

Also, notice that the best performing engines are usually at the race sanctiond displacements: you will not find very many .20ci engines that are race designed since the engine makers know that investing race designs in a .21 engine is more cost effective, everyone wants a race designed .21, not a race .20 since displacement will dictate in this case. The same can be said about .25, .26, and .28 engines. Very few .25 and .26 engines are race designed since the next legal displacment max is .28 and therefore the engine makers see investing in race designed .28s is better since even if a .25 racing engine is available, the buyers will buy the .28 racing engine instead. Again, displacement dictates.

This phenomenon where the majority of racing designed engines occurring at the max legal race displacement can be considered a "twink." This "twink" effect does have a very large effect why a .12ci will spank a .15ci engine but also why the .12 engine will not spank a .21ci engine. The same is true (the "twink" effect") for .21 engines spanking a .25 or ,26 engine, but not a .28ci engine.

ttoks

the current f1 cars at 2.4 liter engines, make around 260 NM (newton meters) of torque (to put the into a perspective, a 2 liter 4 cylinder ford fiesta engine makes just 190 NM) so an f1 engine is by no means a torquey engine, yet an F1 engine can produce 750 hp naturally aspirated (i don't know is many of you remember back to the days when renault was racing the rs10), the replacement for displacements is speed, but with our engines being so small, and good quality engines of either displacement being able to rev almost as high as each other that doesn't usually apply.

supertib

So a Ninja 28, Radical 628, Werks B7 28 Pro are all MT engines ??????

asmund

If it is such a great disadvantage to run a 28 in a buggy race then why am I not allowed to do so?? I think there is a reason for the engine limitations.
I run STS 30 and a Sirio 27 Race (9 port) and both these engines is faster in my buggy than my Sirio 21 Kanai edition 2 (topend race engine) They pull a higher gearing and my 21 on a smaller gearing is slower also. In fact my 21 race engine is sitting on the shelf as a backup right now
I think there have been alot of refinement of the bigblock engines the last years, they are as agressively ported and timed and have as many or more ports as the topend 21`s. Ever seen the sleeve of the STS 30? Not to mention the Sirio 27, it is like a swiss cheese, with holes and ports all over. They are basically almost identical to many 21`s, only bigger and more powerful, so why would they be slower? mine isn`t thats for sure, even if someone propably will try telling me that my 21 is faster

Oliver_Klozov

What about this engine?

http://www.osengines.com/engines/osmg2075.html

STR33T_RAC3R

You club probably has limitations on engine size because a .28 in the hands of a novice would probably be spinning out everywhere crashing and causeing damage. Not good.

You might think that .28 engines are refined. Fair enough but take a .12 5port with a manufacturers 1.5hp claim and then look at their best .28 hp claim 2.8hp.

They are made less unrefined because the power does not suit the application in most cases a 4500g truggy.
In most cases though like you said they carry the same sleeve/design as their .21 engines. Which makes most say they are over kill which = slower around a track.

My point is that lot's of people in the on road touring section have got or are trying to get 100mph cars. They are all using .21's. It's obvious some have tried .28's and found it wasn't as fast. Probably because they don't rev high enough and don't have as much hp. The extra few grams would also make a difference i think.

Thunderbird93

Even tho that CEN makes 5 HP the RPM's aren't as high as the other motors, therefore it will get passed on the higher end. Nova engines are probably the best out there and I guarantee a Nova will smoke a CEN.

supertib

the .21 does not make more HP then a .28......... though most .28's may not make as much RPM as a top tier .21, some of the new .28's now make more RPM as well............... the highest HP ofroad .21 ever tested is 1.6 HP the highest HP .28 was 2.02 HP .... thee is no replacement for displacement its as simple as that !

ttoks

you are right with everything but one, the CEN is no way near 5 HP, the NX .76 and the nova 528 (TNT modded i think it was but i cant remember off by heart) were both tested on the same dyno, and the nova out-powered the CEN 2.02 hp to 1.58, and they made peak hp within 3k RPM of each other (the nova was at 28k, the CEN at 25k), on top of that the nova made 80 oz/inch of torque to the CEN's 76 oz.

and there is a replacement for displacement, horse power is made of two factors, force (in the form of torque) and distance (in the form of RPM), increasing either one gives you more power, a bigger engine will make more torque, but a smaller engine, given thats it properly designed will spin faster, both will give you more power, motorcycle and formula one engines are two very good examples of that.

Thunderbird93

I've seen some .21 engines that have over 42,000 RPMs but those are the higher dollar ones. A friend of mine saw an RB C5 over the weekend and he said that is one mean S.O.B of a motor. I also heard that the LRP Truggy motor was mean as well.