slayerphonics

Can any post a link or some verifiable information about nitro fuel.

What i'm looking for is a discussion about nitro fuel quality and how its tested.

One of my friends was telling me about some fuel using "cheap" nitro and it causing rusting and corrosion problems in engines.


I've done some searches on google and can not come up with any real information on subject,

Since I just got a brand new CL7B, I want to test and compare with my old CL7B and see how the engines wore with different fuel in them.

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Well I came across something that says its not the grade of nitro its the grade of methane used. And that cheaper methane has alot more residual acids in its natrual state that enchance rust.

It also says that running your engine dry leaves partially burned fuel which is a source of acids.

So combine the moisture with the acid

kersplat

The byproduct of Nitromethane chemically changes to a corrosive acid, I believe. Here is a link, if you understand chemistry, it is quite simple.

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=2339117

Most nitromethane has some Methyl alchol in it as a stabilizer usually 2% ( this is at the source where people get nitro M from) This is what I understand.

slayerphonics

Ya, that what I understand to, also the Methane can be very acidic. From what I've read most of fuel is made up of Methane with Nitro added to basiclly allow more oxygen in the combustion chamber for more bang.

So fuel is made up of

?
Methane
nitro
oil
?

And the most corrision is caused by the hygroscopic nature of nitro and methan attracting and holding moisture/water

Then the next being the acidicness of nitro and methane

Then combine the two.


Come on nitro experts Id like to hear your thoughts.. supertib where ya at?

slayerphonics

Did you know that if you dropped a match in nitro it wouldn't light?

But if you slammed a hammer into a puddle of nitro it would exploded.

That nitro boils at 101 degrees and is ignighted at something like 95 to 98 degrees?



A train hualing some large containers of nitro crashed, the crashed caused the containers to slam around and compress the nitro causing a massive explosion, putting a 300 foot crater in the ground.

It compressed in the corners and the ignition started there.

So what happens is nitro is highly explosive when in a confined area.


Thought these where some interesting facts about nitro I didn't know before.

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Ever start your engine with out the igniter in? I always wondered how this happened. But after learning somethings it makes sense.

If the combustion chamber is still hot and you roll the piston over, you are compressing the nitro in a confied space with a flamable temp, which causes it to ignite.

fabrimacator21

Can't say that I agree with those statements. I have lit nitro with a match and you can't hit a puddle of nitro with a hammer and get it to explode. It's only under extreme pressures where enough heat is generated from compression of molecules to cause combustion. Those kind of pressure are only possible in a sealed chamber like a motor.

Don't forget that most fuels have 50-60% methanol alcohol in them which is VERY good at attracting water.

kersplat

Fuel is made up of Methanol (methyl alchol), Nitro methane, oil (castor or synthetic or both) detergents, anti foaming agents. There is no "methane (gas?) in glow fuel

Also Methanol is hygroscopic. Nitro methane is not but the byproducts are corrosive.

fabrimacator21

Found this article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitromethane

Pathous

My Feedback: (12)

Nitromethane is made by a chemical reaction between nitric acid and propane. When nitro is burned you get some of that acid left over. The biggest cause of rust/corrosion is water that is absorbed by the methanol.

rccheech

Bingo!!! as I was reading this is exacly what I was going to say, took the words right outta my mouth.....err keyboard.

downunder

The base fuel needed for a glow engine (they're not nitro engines) to run on is methanol. Nothing else, just methanol. But to keep it running more than a few seconds you also need oil . The engine keeps running without the glow starter attached because the methanol vapour has a catalytic chemical reaction with the platinum in the glow plug coil. This reaction keeps the coil glowing red hot. But methanol attracts water from the air like a sponge which is no problem while the engine is running because it just goes straight through so doesn't have time to soak up any moisture. When an engine is idling though, fuel can build up a little inside the crankcase and if the engine is then stopped this fuel (methanol) lays around in the crankcase and then it starts to attract moisture which then causes rust. This excess fuel should be cleared out by leaving the engine running at fairly high revs and disconnecting the fuel line or pinching the fuel line closed until the engine sweeps up and burns that excess fuel and stops because it's completely dry inside. That's dry of methanol, there'll still be a heavy layer of oil inside.

Nitro is just an additive to fuel which gives more power than methanol alone can give but at the expense of much higher fuel consumption. If you're just bashing and not worried about all out power then use as little nitro as possible. It's cheaper fuel and it'll run longer on the tank. All engines will run very well with no nitro. Pure nitro becomes shock sensitive after some time and usually there's a dye added to it that changes colour when it's becoming shock sensitive but nitro sold as fuel has about 2% of an impurity (which I believe is methanol anyway) which stops it from becoming shock sensitive. That's all it needs, about 2% and it's safe (woops, I just noticed kersplat said the same thing ). Don't buy laboratory grade nitro unless you're going to mix it immediately. Nitro is slightly hygroscopic but nothing like methanol. Methanol is 100% hygroscopic meaning it can soak up it's own volume of water.

Acids from combustion are only a problem in 4 stroke engines with a sump for oil, that doesn't apply to 2 strokes where exhaust gasses can never get into the crankcase.

j_blaze

whoa, wait, i never heard that one before. lower nitro = better mileage? if so i'm switching to 20% since the power difference is hardly noticeable.

fabrimacator21

Yup, all nitro allows you to do is run more fuel because of the extra oxygen in it. Thats why you see top fuel dragsters running 2 distributors with very high voltage to light all that fuel and they still end up putting cylinders out. On the burnouts you can see pure fuel coming out the exhaust. They will go through 14 gallons through the burn out and quarter mile. If it was methanol or gas motor would just drown.

kersplat

I forgot to mention, Nitromethane is sensitive to ultra violet rays (it degrades the product) so keep it in the dark cool place.[8D]

kersplat

Downunder, How is your relatives after the fires? I am trying to get a hold of my aunts and uncles but no luck yet.

slayerphonics

Well i'm talking about nitromethane in its pure form.. or as pure as it can be..


So what seprates fuel as one being a higher quality then another?

Are there cheaper versions of the chemicals?

Is there a low quality nitro vs a higher quality one?

downunder

It's all to do with air/fuel ratios. With petrol, like in a car, you get best power at a ratio of about 12.5:1 which means 12.5 pounds of air to burn 1 pound of petrol. With methanol the ratio is about 6:1 which means you need twice as much methanol to burn with the same amount of air compared to petrol. A car getting 30 miles per gallon on petrol would get about 15mpg on methanol. Nitro starts at about 2.5:1 and is still good down to about 0.5:1 so at best a car would only get about 6mpg or less.

Nitro is actually a very poor fuel (pound for pound it's got much less heat energy than methanol) but you can burn so much of it that it more than makes up for being a bad fuel.

kersplat
Thanks for asking but luckily none of my family are anywhere near those fires which are all in Victoria and still burning after 2 weeks or so. I hope you manage to contact your rellies very soon.

slayerphonics

I thought you typically need about 15 pounds of air to burn 1 pound of gasoline, whereas you need only 1.7 pounds of air to burn 1 pound of nitromethane. This means that, compared to gasoline, you can pump about 8 times more nitromethane into a cylinder of a given volume and still get complete combustion.

Also an internal combustion engine can burn more than 2 ½ times as much nitromethane to a given volume of air than it can methanol.

Standard Nitro-methane (CH3NO2) becomes Di-Nitromethane when exposed to UV, but Di-nitromethane can be used in place or additive to nitrofuel.. so doesn't that mean that UV doesn't really have a detrimental effect to fuel?

But my biggest question is what makes on brand of fuel better then another. Is there a quality level of nitro and methanol?

From what I read is that China produces the most pure nitro.. atleast back in late 90s. I can't find any new informaion.

Found this site has a decent outline of the 3 core ingredients of nitro fuel.
http://www.rc-trucks.org/rc-nitro-fuel.htm

Pathous

My Feedback: (12)

Usually in the case of car and airplane fuel the quality is dictated by the oil used.

slayerphonics

So that would mean, there are different qualities of Castor oil?

kersplat

It must be remembered that nitromethane is a combustion promoter, not a fuel as such. When nitro is added to a fuel and burned together, the nitro gives off oxygen in the process.

Pathous

My Feedback: (12)

There are different qualities of caster but most fuels don't use straight caster for the oil anymore. Most fuels are a mix of synthetics and caster some are straight synthetic and some are all caster.