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Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

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Old 08-21-2007, 05:42 PM
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Default Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

Hi everyone.

After a few years of drooling over the 40% Cardens at my field ( Windingbrook R/C ) and trying to compensate with 35% ARF'S ( bigger is better) , I finally ordered my 1st 40% kit ( EDGE 540). I plan on a DA 150, standard mufflers, JR 8711 servos ( budget willing) and some type of power expander with li-on batteries. Dennis had the kit in stock ( sweet ) and I should have it by friday. After I hung up the phone, reality smacked me in the face. I am going to need help! I have built a couple smaller kits and have access to most tools needed but certain steps like sheeting are going to be new to me. I have checked out build threads on Cardens before and enjoyed watching the progress and all the info posted by other builders as things went along. I am going to get a thread going from the perspective of a first time Carden builder. Any tips, hints, opinions, general knowledge or insults will be most welcome. I have to note that Dennis did offer his help with any questions I have but I figure he is busy enough putting kits together so I'll use this thread to gather info and save the big issues for him.

So my first question is what type of glues work best for sheeting? I heard of some using Probond or if I remember right , Gorilla glue. How about epoxy for the fuse build ? I'm trying to get my building supplies together and a space cleared for a building table in the garage so I can start as soon as possible. Agian, please feel free to give your two cents and I will post pics and updates as things progress. Thanks for your time.

Mark

P.S. Anyone interested in a turn key Aeroworks Extra 260 QB ( yellow) with a DA 100 ? Only 6 flights. Located in central CT.
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Old 08-21-2007, 06:29 PM
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Default RE: Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

I won't be able to offer much help, but I'll certainly be watching your progress. I'm hoping to get a 35% Carden for this winter.
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Old 08-21-2007, 06:46 PM
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Default RE: Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

epoxy for the fuse is the best IMO. Resistant to vibration. Clamp the joint then clean the rest of the heavy stuff off. 8711 servos are battery hungry. 8611 will be more than enough. Sheeting , everyone is an expert on this. I like west system poxy and vacume bagging. Have fun and build it streight.

FWB
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Old 08-21-2007, 09:34 PM
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Default RE: Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

I was a member there years ago. Is Steve Swan still around? He's a great builder an Carden fan. You could ask him for help.

Al Torres
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Old 08-21-2007, 09:35 PM
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Default RE: Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

Thanks for the info. West systems is an option I have heard of. I am going to to a little more research tonight and order so the epoxy and other supplies so everything shows up around the same time as the kit. Using JR 8711's is becoming more of a pipe dream the more time I spend pricing things out but they do sound sexy. It looks like Hitec's or jr 8611's. Any opinions? I have had 8411's in a few planes with no issues but would not use them in a 40%. I had some stripped gears in Hitec's top end digitals but that was probably my fault ( linkage issues). It's amazing how aware you become of the quality of components you put into a kit when the planes get this big. I'm going to need therapy when this is over but I look forward to the whole process.
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Old 08-22-2007, 03:42 AM
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Default RE: Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

I've used Hitecs for years for hucking and 3d. Never a failure. As for precision and centering, they sux. Use the JRs IMHO.

FWB
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Old 08-22-2007, 07:42 AM
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Default RE: Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

I've built 35% and 40% Cardens and here's some thoughts:

- They are not hard to build- but will take a little time- you are building from sticks and sheeting.

- The kits make nice looking models- they just seem to come out nice.

- For glues I use:
- wood glue to build the truss fuse sides and to attach the sheeting to the sides of the fuse. I have cut back on CA usage as much as much as possible.
- wood glue to attach sheets together (when I use CA I get noticeable seam lines)
- epoxy or Poly Glue (formerly pro-bod, now ultimate glue) for attaching sheeting to foam and to attach sheeted foam pieces to fuse.
- epoxy when assembling the motor box and firewall areas.

- It's worth it to do the "standard" lightening in the motor box area that you see in most all of the build threads. It will save you a pound or two.

- cutting holes in the fuse sides will save some weight- but not that much. Having said that, I haven't built an edge but I've been told they can be tail heavy if you aren't careful.

- use a light tail wheel to help balance.

- I recommend installing the access hatch in the tail- this isn't on the plans but many people do it. I have been grateful for it when my leads disappear into the fuse.

- I don't use the plastic L brackets on the tail for anti-rotation. I use an anti-rotation pin and make a plywood root with tabs for the bolts to hold the stabs on.

Dave
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Old 08-22-2007, 05:04 PM
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Default RE: Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

Sorry I didn't reply earlier Al. Steve is still flying the crap out of his Cardens and I hope to get some info from him. Thanks for your input Dave. I once saw a thread where lightening was done in the motor box area but I can't find the thread agian. If anyone finds an old thread showing this, let me know. After some thought , I am going to use Probond( now ultimate) glue for the sheeting and I'm leaning towards epoxy for eveything else. The only reason I wouldn't use wood glue is because I have more experience with epoxy. How do wood glue and epoxy compare in regards to handling vibration? Does wood glue noticably add to the overall weight of the fuse compared to one built with epoxy? I know this is nit picking but I'm all for doing it right the first time. As far as gluing the sheeting together. I tried the quick and dirty method of using CA and Dave is exactly right. No rush this time and wood glue it will be. Thanks for the help so far guys. Ups says I have to wait until Monday for delivery but like I said, no rush this time.
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Old 08-22-2007, 06:16 PM
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Default RE: Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

Mark, wish I had known you were looking for one. I have a beautifully framed 40% Carden Edge ready for finishing I do not plan on completing any time soon. You are welcome to check it out anytime you would like and I would be glad to answer any questions I can for you. It is a very time consuming build as the kit has virtually no preformed parts (aside from the foam and motorbox parts), but also very rewarding and durable in the end. Good luck and feel free to contact me with any questions. Craig
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Old 08-22-2007, 07:23 PM
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Default RE: Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

Hey Craig. I figured I would hear from one of the locals soon. Any luck selling that monster you have listed? I showed a picture of it to my wife and told her I had bought it (as a joke). Sadly , she did not see the humor. I had thought about buying a turn key 40% or somthing like a ARC. Then I saw Bryan's 3W extra and if my motorcycle had sold, I probably would have used the cash to buy it. Knowing how well you build, I would have taken you up on your Edge in a second but in the end, I'm happy with the choice I made. The next time someone asks me if I built my plane, I can finally say yes ( unless it comes out like s#%t, then I'll say I bought it as a RTF). I'm sure I will have questions for you so if you could check the thread every now and then, I would appreciate it. If you know anyone looking for a 35% aeroworks extra 260 RTF, have them chime in here. I need some cash for servos and a DA 150. Take care. Mark.
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Old 08-23-2007, 09:56 PM
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Default RE: Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

I found a couple Carden build threads that seemed well thought out and gave some good tips. I can really see why these kits hold up well and the build looks pretty straight forward. The only steps I am unsure of is sanding bevels in the control surfaces at the hinge lines and getting a nice, straight leading edge on everything. I have to admit that I have little experience doing these steps and with the size of these surfaces, I can see things going badly if I try to do this with the wrong tool. Any hints?
I also decided to use weight, not bagging, to glue the skins to the wing surfaces. It seems to me that the most important thing when sheeting using this method is to have a perfectly flat, level, strong surface and a reasonable/excessive amount of weight ( pavers) placed even over the shucks with a board between the weight and the top shuck. I also need to buy pavers for the yard so this kills two birds with one stone. ( no pun intended ). The threads I saw used this method and the results it got would make me happy if I could duplicate them.
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Old 08-24-2007, 08:32 AM
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Default RE: Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

Sounds like you are on the right track by thinking things through. It helps to understand what you are after first, before you realize that it was a mistake by rushing that particular building task. The bevels are not hard. I use the method of drawing out the bevels on the ends of the surfaces and connecting them with a reference line to each end. I use a modeling razor plane to get close to the line then final sand with a sanding block made up from a good straight biece od hardwood with belt sanding papes glued to it.. Some of my sanding block can be 18-24" in length and just under 4" wide. It does make it easy to get a good bevel on the surfaces. Work good for me. You will enjoy the build, just take your time. I did a build thread on a40% Carden 260 myself on FG website. I built it with the intent to see how lite I could make it. 35 lbs . Plane flies great.
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Old 08-26-2007, 08:44 AM
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Default RE: Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

Thanks for the info Joe. I have a Great planes electric planer but I'll go with the one you used. I am also going to purchase a long sanding block. I think if I just take alittle material off at a time, it should go o.k.
I found a solid core hardwood at Home Depot for about $58 that should make a solid, straight work bench. I am going to make the frame out of 2x4's in a style I saw in a forum on this site. I also purchased the Probond and Titebond glue . I still have not decided on what epoxy to use yet. The kit should be here tomorrow so I'll spend most of this evening cleraring room in the garage ( a disaster ) and building the work bench. I'll post the first pics hopefully tomorrow.
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Old 08-27-2007, 06:29 PM
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Default RE: Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

The kit came via UPS this evening and all foam and wood was undamaged except for one balsa plank ( no problem). Everything included is of top notch quality ( in my humble and inexperienced opinion). The canopy is very clear and the fiberglass looks pin hole free and layed up well. I looked over the plans and decided to get back into the building groove by doing the fuse first. I have the most experience with this and none with sheeting foam so I'll try to start with something I know. I will attempt to upload some pics to give you an idea of what a kit looks like fresh out of the box. Does anyone have any opinions as far as using one servo per elevator half? I was looking at either the Hitec 5955tg or the JR 8711 for this purpose. In various forums, I have heard both positive and negative on this and I need more info. Craig, If you see this post, let me know what you think as far as one or two servos per elevator side.Thanks.

Mark
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Old 08-27-2007, 06:35 PM
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Default RE: Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

I can only upload one at a time so here we go.
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Old 08-27-2007, 06:39 PM
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Default RE: Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

more pics.
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Old 08-27-2007, 06:42 PM
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Default RE: Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

Two more.
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Old 08-30-2007, 12:53 AM
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Default RE: Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

Mark,

I too just recently purchased a 40% Carden (extra 300). It's been a month and I have yet to start building. This would be my second Carden; the first was a 40% 330 which I sold before completing.

It was a time consuming project due to the sheeting. It was also my first time sheeting balsa on foam. I've used the Ultimate glue to put the balsa together which was not a problem at all.

I'm hoping to start on my 40% Carden Extra 300 soon! I'll be following your thread to see the progress.

BTW-this is my first gasser!


Harold
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Old 08-30-2007, 06:39 PM
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Default RE: Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

Hi Harold


Thats one hell of a way to get into gassers! My first was a 33% sukhoi ( loved that plane). I started the fuse the night I got the kit and realized that I needed some hand tools that I did not own. I ordered them that night and should have them tomorrow. Hopefully I'll make some serious progress this weekend so I can post some pics. Good luck with you extra (a sweet looking plane ) and let me know how it goes.

Mark
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Old 08-31-2007, 09:17 PM
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Default RE: Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

Mark,

Not sure if you have seen this yet, but I just thought I should share it with you. It's a prototype Lightened (lazer cut) motor box from Carden. I'm thinking of going this route but not as radical.

I can't seem to download the pics so here is the link.

http://www.flyinggiants.com/forums/f...carden+castrol


Harold.
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Old 08-31-2007, 09:25 PM
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Default RE: Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)


Try this one.... Once your on the web page, scroll to the bottom.

http://www.levijordan.com/building_pics.htm

Harold
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Old 09-02-2007, 09:13 AM
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Default RE: Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

Hi Harold.

Thanks for the info. I remember hearing that the Carden edges can come out tail heavy so I'm alittle worried about taking too much weight out of the nose then having to replace it with lead to balance it correctly. I am going to do the lightening holes shown on the print and mabey some more where the motor attaches to the box but only if I can get some weight out of the tail also. When you did your first Carden, how did you keep the 3/8 balsa truss straight while building?
My first attempt looked o.k. until I stood it up on it's edge and looked down the length of it and saw that it was warped. I ordered more 3/8 balsa sticks and will redo the truss agian but agianst a straight edge of some type this time. I seemed perfect when I had epoxied it all together in the evening but the next morning was a diffrent story and I'll be damned if I'm going to half ass this kit. Live and learn I guess.

Mark
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Old 09-02-2007, 11:53 AM
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Default RE: Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

I was able to borrow a 7 foot section of straight angled alumnium from my uncle ( thanks Ray) that I am going to use to butt the 3/8 stringers agianst so I don't run into the same problem. I will have some pics posted tomorrow evening.
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Old 09-02-2007, 07:51 PM
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Default RE: Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

Mark,

Actually, I purchased my Extra 330 partially build. The side truss of the frame was already build and the rest I put together. I would assume that having a long straight edge would help and keeping it pinned down while gluing would keep it straight. How much warp do you have on the frame? If it's not too bad, I would think that you can fix it once you place the side balsa sheets. Let me know how you make out with the second try...

As for my Extra 300, I still have not started. I'm actually doing a lot of traveling this days with work and I have yet to find time to start building.

Harold.
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Old 09-02-2007, 08:47 PM
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Default RE: Carden 40% Edge 540 build ( first time)

Try this....

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