80stars

To all Carden builders,

I have yet to have the pleasure of building a Carden, but am anxiously looking at an older 30% 300S kit. I do not like the low wing design of the kit and want to ask for your opinions to modify this kit to a mid wing. Can or better, should it be done?

as722

My Feedback: (1)

I've built a few of these back in the early 90's and they flew great for their time. It will depend on how much you enjoy building because if you do the extra few hours it will take for the mod. will only add to the joy of building. On the other hand if you don't enjoy building too much, build it stock since the difference in flight will not be that big unless you're building it with "contests" in mind.
BTW this kit as well as any kit of that era were heavier than we are used to now so don't be afraid to take some material off here and there as you see fit. Good luck with your project.

Albert

zzw26n

My Feedback: (45)

What he said!
I like Albert's answer to the question for a couple of reasons; he Builds them (Cardens) and Flys them, and he does both very well.

80stars

Thank you very much for your valued input. The only reason I would make the mod is for the experience and looks. I really want to do a 40% 260, but it's just not in the budget yet, and I thought a warm up would be good.

as722

My Feedback: (1)

Nothing wrong with the 30% 300s, you can always build a 40% later on when time and money allows.

80stars

Good advice, thank you.

I did it, I purchased this kit, the seller indcated it was one of the last 300s Carden sold back in 94. I would like anyone with experience to give me their suggestions on building this model and or point me towards any build threads on this kit.

as722

My Feedback: (1)

I don't know of any build threads on this model but I will help you in anyway I can. I flew mine with a G-62 and if Remember correctly it was around 21 pounds but that was with two ni-cad packs, aluminium spinner, a heavy pilot etc. I think this model can be built today at around 18.5 pounds which even by today standarts is good.

Albert

80stars

Thanks Albert,

I think I will do a build thread on this one, sort of a "throw back", there may be others out there looking at the same project. That way you and others with experience can help me better during the build with my questions. Albert you addressed this earlier in this thread that the kit is perfect as is, that making a modification to a mid wing will only be for my challenge as a builder, not performance to the aircraft. In your experience building this kit, can the mid wing mod be performed and sill allow room inside the fuse for equipment? My concern would be the fuel tank. In your aircraft did the tank sit on top of the wing tube? Forgive me, I have not yet looked at the plans for this kit, I'm not even sure it's a two piece wing with a tube. From other owners pictures it is hard to tell the design and layout of the airframe for me to make a decision if the mid wing mod is even feasable.

Doug

as722

My Feedback: (1)

To be honest it's been such a long time that I can't remember if the tank was in front or on top of the tank but I would try to center the tank on the CG if at all possible. You must remember that if you raise the wing it will not become a 300 since it still has the single place canopy, however there was a one of a kind extra called the extra "300 special" that started as an extra 300 and was later retrofited with a single place canopy which is basically what you will have if you raise the wing. I actually think that raising the wing might make it easier when it comes time to build the "pocket" around the wing.

Albert

80stars

Albert,

Not having the kit and plans in my possession yet to know the details of the fuse build, I was thinking about not making the pockets and doing the fuse similar to your builds on the 40% Extra. Maybe the design of the structure wont allow but it was a thought, and it might give me some additional wing area. Any thoughts on putting the new DA-85 on this airplane?

Doug

as722

My Feedback: (1)

The 30% 300s is very different in the way it builds than the current carden aircraft but you can probably change and build it lighter at the same time. As far as the 85, I think is too much engine I would go with the 50.


Albert

80stars

Thanks Albert,

After sleeping on this one for several nights, I have come to the conclusion that I am trying to make this kit into somthing it's not. From what I have learned about this kit, it is the perfect airplane for way it was designed. I will only be doing the design injustice by trying to modify it to somthing it was not intended to look or fly like. I think I will offer this kit for sale after I recieve it from the previous owner this week. Know anyone interesed in a sill in the box 30% Extra 300? I will take what I paid for the kit $350 plus shipping. I want the 40%er and will be looking for help when I start that project.

Thank you,
Doug

Ward if you are following this thread, thanks for the inspiration and I will square up with you at the end of this week.

zzw26n

My Feedback: (45)

Doug,

I would suggest that you go with your gut instinct first and build it. Not sure if you've done any Giant Scale stuff, but this would make a great entry into building, setting up and Flying Giant Scale. I don't know anyone who has gone from glow to a 40%'er. The steps of 1.20 size, 50cc, 100cc and 150cc make allot of sense after living thru them. I still have four 50cc size planes (2 Cardens) and there are days that you'll want to Fly them. (windy, fun fly, etc.) You'll get plenty of help here also.

Ward

80stars

I'm gona build it. Looked over the plans for the last few days, making the mid wing modificaton shouldn't be a problem from what I can see. Carden builders please weigh in with your tips or advice. My first question is regarding tapered ailerons, should I or should I not and please educate me on the difference needed for beveling the LE and TE for this set up.

80stars

Here are the three boxes. Big box is the foam wing, stabs, and decking which are nice and safe until needed. Medium box is the cowl, canopy and gear. The long flat one is the fuselage in the form of balsa sticks and sheeting. Just a few shots of my pilot for some perspective of size for those unfamilar with a 30%er. Wing span is 89" fuselage length 78", finished weight should be around 19lbs.

First thing for me was to lay out the plans and determine if raising the wing would be a building/structural issue. I have tried to examine every angle and the new wing centerline location will be raised 2" from the plan locations. I chose this location because it is a mirror image from the top of the truss as the plans show for the original centerline location. This places the wing centerline 7/8" below the center line of thrust.

I do not like the tap method through the wing into the wing tube as a retaing method. Therefore I will be adding retainers (1 each side) through the wing root into the fuse. Question? I have seen both methods 1. screw head inside root cap with threads into fuse with nut for retainer or 2. blind nut inside root cap with retainer screw from inside fuse into wing. Any advantages one way or the other? I think I would prefer method 2 myself, but this is my first model with this design.

Doug

80stars

Some more pics.

zzw26n

My Feedback: (45)

Sweet! Please keep us posted Doug. What are using for a power plant? Servo's etc.

Great picture of your son and the Cowl, classic!

Ward

80stars

Let the framing begin!

80stars

Thanks Ward

Engine undecided, against recommendation I would like the DA-85. However the DA-50 with 2.5" standoffs sits in about the same hole. If I keep the plane I would like to add smoke which =s weight, so the 85 and 3 blade prop would be real nice. I also plan to do the TOC mods and place the elevator servos in the horizontal stab as suggested.

Doug

80stars

Left side truss complete and ply stress plate marked for new wing tube location and lightening cut outs.

I precut and fit the right side trusses while building the left side so even with the plans and jig both side will be exactly the same. This should also make building the right pretty fast. The new wing tube cut went well. I drilled and screwed all the ply stress plates together to keep them from any movement during the cuts, it worked well all matched exactly. I wish I had a better (cleaner) method for cutting out the lightening holes/areas than my dremel and sandpaper. Besides using a milling machine are there any better tips on doing this job? Could I turn my drill press into a mill? The lightening cut out worked OK but IMO look a little butch, I gotta find a cleaner way for the next build.

I want to set up F1 (firewall) length. Should I run the backing plate for the engine out just beyond the cowl, or take it all the way to backside of the spiner depicted on the plans? The backside of the spiner sits 5mm beyond the front of the cowl on my plans.

80stars

Two more.

hmalcom

I have a 30 % Carden Extra. The canopy on mine is permanently attached. This leaves only the hatch to give access to the fuel tank, batteries , etc. I have to work thru the wing opening to hook up the receiver.

If you want access like the newer 30 % planes I would suggest building the hatch and canopy/cockpit to be removable.

hmalcom

zzw26n

My Feedback: (45)

Doug,

Great job so far, keep up the good work.

I've heard of others that did this also, 'made the Canopy & Hatch all one piece' , this should make life allot easier for the interior set-up.
I have a couple CUDA's and they have a long and narrow canopy - hatch set up, it works great.

Ward

80stars

Hmalcom and Ward,

Thanks for the tip, I will plan to do it.

Doug

80stars

Left and right trusses out of jig and nice and straight. Installed bass servo rails to left side only for rudder servo, elevator servos will go into the horizontal stab as per the TOC instructions. I installed the basa stress plates to tail sections and added lightening holes, don't know if it will help but it can't hurt. The last thing today was installing the landing gear stress plates and wighting them down with 40 lbs each to cure overnight.

This is a really great kit and fun to build. I am suprised how easy it is going together so far, but I know there will be many far more challenging tasks ahead.

Doug