Baby classic pattern planes are here!
12-24-2010, 03:50 PM
#101
RE: Baby classic pattern planes are here!
David,
Thank you for the advice. I checked with the hobby shop and John suggested going with the laminating epoxy which is what I am going to do. On the previous foam wings I've done, I used slow cure epoxy as well as 3M contact cement. It seemed to me that the epoxy gave the best results. For the landing gear, I will probably install the blocks on the wing and then decide wether to keep the gear or not. I will move the blocks forward relative to what is shown in the plans since the plane will be a tail dragger.
For the power system, the E-flite on a 10x8 prop will make about 250 watts or so and give me a pitch speed of about 55 mph or so. For such a small plane, that seemed fast enough. I have the motor on hand and it does fit the nose of the plane if I go with a nose ring mount. I agree that the battery might be a little big given the size of the plane, but at that power level the battery is good for a 7 minute flight or so. I know also that people have used the small Mega 1615 on these types of planes and fitted then with a small prop, but I am hoping to fly a little more slowly and use the motor thrust rather than speed for vertical performance. Off course, it the plane ends up being heavier than expected, that assumption goes out the window and I will need more speed. I have been flying electric planes for about 5 or 6 years now so I thought I knew what I was doing. If you guys think that I am going down the wrong path, I am open to suggestions.
As a slight change to the design, I might do the rear turtle deck in 16th sheeting with formers simply to save a little weight. I have not decided if it is worth the extra effort or not. There is something to be said for carving and sanding, I find it very relaxing. We will see.
Thanks once again and Merry Christmas to all of you,
Teo
Thank you for the advice. I checked with the hobby shop and John suggested going with the laminating epoxy which is what I am going to do. On the previous foam wings I've done, I used slow cure epoxy as well as 3M contact cement. It seemed to me that the epoxy gave the best results. For the landing gear, I will probably install the blocks on the wing and then decide wether to keep the gear or not. I will move the blocks forward relative to what is shown in the plans since the plane will be a tail dragger.
For the power system, the E-flite on a 10x8 prop will make about 250 watts or so and give me a pitch speed of about 55 mph or so. For such a small plane, that seemed fast enough. I have the motor on hand and it does fit the nose of the plane if I go with a nose ring mount. I agree that the battery might be a little big given the size of the plane, but at that power level the battery is good for a 7 minute flight or so. I know also that people have used the small Mega 1615 on these types of planes and fitted then with a small prop, but I am hoping to fly a little more slowly and use the motor thrust rather than speed for vertical performance. Off course, it the plane ends up being heavier than expected, that assumption goes out the window and I will need more speed. I have been flying electric planes for about 5 or 6 years now so I thought I knew what I was doing. If you guys think that I am going down the wrong path, I am open to suggestions.
As a slight change to the design, I might do the rear turtle deck in 16th sheeting with formers simply to save a little weight. I have not decided if it is worth the extra effort or not. There is something to be said for carving and sanding, I find it very relaxing. We will see.
Thanks once again and Merry Christmas to all of you,
Teo
12-25-2010, 10:41 AM
#102
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RE: Baby classic pattern planes are here!
Happy Holidays, Everyone!
First, I have a canopy for the BabyMach One, and possibly the Baby Banshee, and the Baby Curare. Stay tuned.
I am looking into the Fancy Foam gear, looks perfect for the Baby series.
I will also have the foam wings available separately when I get a chance to edit the web site,in case you want to have a set with and without landing gear.
Just a few comments from my experince... They are just my opinions, and as always, there a lot of viable ways to do the job
I have been working with foam wings lot since the early 90's, when I was a partner in Dynamic Balsa, and we bought the foam wing business from Ralph Andre at wing MFG, before he passed away. I in turn bought the business from Dynamic a few years ago.
PART A
On a plane this size, (and most others for that matter), I always use Scotch 77 (#77 from now on) spray adhesive. Contrary to recent myths, it does not eat foam. The accelerant now used is what attacks foam. It works fine as long as you treat it as you are using spray paint. Don't spray it on from 3" away, back off and you will not have any problems. I did 6 sets of wings for Raytheon, and used this method. The wings are surviving many tests with no issues at all, and they are very particular. I have over 10 year old wings that haven't even thought about separating done with #77. It is very light, works perfectly, not messy, and is very quick to do. Very similar reults to Sorguhm, but not as messy. Both are great if you are allergic to epoxy.
Epoxy is my next choice, I have always found it to work well. I use it when there are landing gear in the wing, so the sheeting is glued to the false ribs used to mount the gear plates, and any dihedral braces.
I have also used a combination of epoxy and #77, adhering most of the sheeting with the #77, and spreading epoxy where any spars, false ribs, braces, etc. touch the sheeting. The advantage of the eopxy, with less mess.
I tried Gorilla glue, and was not impressed at all. Overpriced, and way to limited shelf life, with no advantages I have found.
Also worth mentioning, is always glue LE, TE, and wing tips on with wood glue. Doing these with epoxy makes it almost impossible to sand properly.
When joining the wing halves, epoxy or wood glue works good, feel free to poke a few holes in the ends with a pencil. That allows some of the adhesive to flow into them, creating sprues which act a lot like dihedral braces. And it is always a good idea to wrap the center with a narrow sheet of fiberglas if there are landing gear in the wing.
As always, personal experience prevails If you have ways of doing things that work for you, by all means use them. These mentioned have always worked for me.
PART B
Don't waste you time trying to change the planes to a sheeted turtle deck. I have wentback and forth between that and the current (actually ways learned from the old masters LOL) method, a few times, and that is what delayed their release.
The weight results are very, very close since almost everything is sanded away. I took care to size everything so very little of the tri stock was left when done.
The main reason is, despite me being lazy on the plans, and showing the section behind the wing TE as straight, the whole fuse side should curve gracefully from front to back, however the wood naturally bends. The old planes don't have a straight turtle deck, like an Edge540, for instance, that 'breaks' at the wing TE.
Trying to apply turtle deck sheeting is next to impossible due to the compound curve that results from the curved sides. Wood sheets don't bend that way. Foam turtle decks are a problem on these shape of planes for the same reason.
It also helps to add the top sheeting while the fuse is in the building jig. This helps keep the fuse very straight for the rest of the process. You are using one, right?
Ok that's enough for now. Please no flames, they are just my experinces from years of building. hope they help a few of the 'ARF' people out there.
Off to eat a wonderful Christmas lunch I smell in the other room.
Don
First, I have a canopy for the BabyMach One, and possibly the Baby Banshee, and the Baby Curare. Stay tuned.
I am looking into the Fancy Foam gear, looks perfect for the Baby series.
I will also have the foam wings available separately when I get a chance to edit the web site,in case you want to have a set with and without landing gear.
Just a few comments from my experince... They are just my opinions, and as always, there a lot of viable ways to do the job
I have been working with foam wings lot since the early 90's, when I was a partner in Dynamic Balsa, and we bought the foam wing business from Ralph Andre at wing MFG, before he passed away. I in turn bought the business from Dynamic a few years ago.PART A
On a plane this size, (and most others for that matter), I always use Scotch 77 (#77 from now on) spray adhesive. Contrary to recent myths, it does not eat foam. The accelerant now used is what attacks foam. It works fine as long as you treat it as you are using spray paint. Don't spray it on from 3" away, back off and you will not have any problems. I did 6 sets of wings for Raytheon, and used this method. The wings are surviving many tests with no issues at all, and they are very particular. I have over 10 year old wings that haven't even thought about separating done with #77. It is very light, works perfectly, not messy, and is very quick to do. Very similar reults to Sorguhm, but not as messy. Both are great if you are allergic to epoxy.
Epoxy is my next choice, I have always found it to work well. I use it when there are landing gear in the wing, so the sheeting is glued to the false ribs used to mount the gear plates, and any dihedral braces.
I have also used a combination of epoxy and #77, adhering most of the sheeting with the #77, and spreading epoxy where any spars, false ribs, braces, etc. touch the sheeting. The advantage of the eopxy, with less mess.
I tried Gorilla glue, and was not impressed at all. Overpriced, and way to limited shelf life, with no advantages I have found.
Also worth mentioning, is always glue LE, TE, and wing tips on with wood glue. Doing these with epoxy makes it almost impossible to sand properly.
When joining the wing halves, epoxy or wood glue works good, feel free to poke a few holes in the ends with a pencil. That allows some of the adhesive to flow into them, creating sprues which act a lot like dihedral braces. And it is always a good idea to wrap the center with a narrow sheet of fiberglas if there are landing gear in the wing.
As always, personal experience prevails
If you have ways of doing things that work for you, by all means use them. These mentioned have always worked for me.PART B
Don't waste you time trying to change the planes to a sheeted turtle deck. I have wentback and forth between that and the current (actually ways learned from the old masters LOL) method, a few times, and that is what delayed their release.
The weight results are very, very close since almost everything is sanded away. I took care to size everything so very little of the tri stock was left when done.
The main reason is, despite me being lazy on the plans, and showing the section behind the wing TE as straight, the whole fuse side should curve gracefully from front to back, however the wood naturally bends. The old planes don't have a straight turtle deck, like an Edge540, for instance, that 'breaks' at the wing TE.
Trying to apply turtle deck sheeting is next to impossible due to the compound curve that results from the curved sides. Wood sheets don't bend that way. Foam turtle decks are a problem on these shape of planes for the same reason.
It also helps to add the top sheeting while the fuse is in the building jig. This helps keep the fuse very straight for the rest of the process. You are using one, right?
Ok that's enough for now. Please no flames, they are just my experinces from years of building. hope they help a few of the 'ARF' people out there.
Off to eat a wonderful Christmas lunch I smell in the other room.
Don
ORIGINAL: viva_peru
David,
Thank you for the advice. I checked with the hobby shop and John suggested going with the laminating epoxy which is what I am going to do. On the previous foam wings I've done, I used slow cure epoxy as well as 3M contact cement. It seemed to me that the epoxy gave the best results. For the landing gear, I will probably install the blocks on the wing and then decide wether to keep the gear or not. I will move the blocks forward relative to what is shown in the plans since the plane will be a tail dragger.
For the power system, the E-flite on a 10x8 prop will make about 250 watts or so and give me a pitch speed of about 55 mph or so. For such a small plane, that seemed fast enough. I have the motor on hand and it does fit the nose of the plane if I go with a nose ring mount. I agree that the battery might be a little big given the size of the plane, but at that power level the battery is good for a 7 minute flight or so. I know also that people have used the small Mega 1615 on these types of planes and fitted then with a small prop, but I am hoping to fly a little more slowly and use the motor thrust rather than speed for vertical performance. Off course, it the plane ends up being heavier than expected, that assumption goes out the window and I will need more speed. I have been flying electric planes for about 5 or 6 years now so I thought I knew what I was doing. If you guys think that I am going down the wrong path, I am open to suggestions.
As a slight change to the design, I might do the rear turtle deck in 16th sheeting with formers simply to save a little weight. I have not decided if it is worth the extra effort or not. There is something to be said for carving and sanding, I find it very relaxing. We will see.
Thanks once again and Merry Christmas to all of you,
Teo
David,
Thank you for the advice. I checked with the hobby shop and John suggested going with the laminating epoxy which is what I am going to do. On the previous foam wings I've done, I used slow cure epoxy as well as 3M contact cement. It seemed to me that the epoxy gave the best results. For the landing gear, I will probably install the blocks on the wing and then decide wether to keep the gear or not. I will move the blocks forward relative to what is shown in the plans since the plane will be a tail dragger.
For the power system, the E-flite on a 10x8 prop will make about 250 watts or so and give me a pitch speed of about 55 mph or so. For such a small plane, that seemed fast enough. I have the motor on hand and it does fit the nose of the plane if I go with a nose ring mount. I agree that the battery might be a little big given the size of the plane, but at that power level the battery is good for a 7 minute flight or so. I know also that people have used the small Mega 1615 on these types of planes and fitted then with a small prop, but I am hoping to fly a little more slowly and use the motor thrust rather than speed for vertical performance. Off course, it the plane ends up being heavier than expected, that assumption goes out the window and I will need more speed. I have been flying electric planes for about 5 or 6 years now so I thought I knew what I was doing. If you guys think that I am going down the wrong path, I am open to suggestions.
As a slight change to the design, I might do the rear turtle deck in 16th sheeting with formers simply to save a little weight. I have not decided if it is worth the extra effort or not. There is something to be said for carving and sanding, I find it very relaxing. We will see.
Thanks once again and Merry Christmas to all of you,
Teo
01-03-2011, 05:05 AM
#103
RE: Baby classic pattern planes are here!
Hello Don,
I was able to start working on the baby Curare over the Holidays and I would like to ask you a couple of quick questions about the wings. I have both panels just about done; I ended up using Z-Poxy finishing resin to attach the skins and it worked quite well. After trimming the excess wood in preparation to attach the trailing and leading edges I noticed the following:
1) At the root, the depth of the wing is slightly greater than 1/2" so I ended up cutting a couple of 3/4" strips to use instead. Not a big deal, I just reached into the pile of wood I have accumulated over the years. I think that the 1/2" stock fell short by about 1/16 of an inch.
2) At the wing tip, I had the same issue with wood provided for the tips, so I added some 3/32 scrap to fill it. Once again, not a big deal.
After attaching the leading, trailing edge as well as the wing tips, I started shaping and sanding the wing to get everything nice and smooth and then it hit me: The trailing edge tapers quite a bit and it is quite a bit thicker than the 1/4 aileron stock provided. At the root, it is nearly 1/2" deep while at the tip it is about 3/8" deep. My initial thought is to get some 1/2" sheeting and shape the ailerons to fit the wing. A built structure might work, but things would get tight near the wing tip. Do you have any suggestions of what to do?
Thanks,
Teo
I was able to start working on the baby Curare over the Holidays and I would like to ask you a couple of quick questions about the wings. I have both panels just about done; I ended up using Z-Poxy finishing resin to attach the skins and it worked quite well. After trimming the excess wood in preparation to attach the trailing and leading edges I noticed the following:
1) At the root, the depth of the wing is slightly greater than 1/2" so I ended up cutting a couple of 3/4" strips to use instead. Not a big deal, I just reached into the pile of wood I have accumulated over the years. I think that the 1/2" stock fell short by about 1/16 of an inch.
2) At the wing tip, I had the same issue with wood provided for the tips, so I added some 3/32 scrap to fill it. Once again, not a big deal.
After attaching the leading, trailing edge as well as the wing tips, I started shaping and sanding the wing to get everything nice and smooth and then it hit me: The trailing edge tapers quite a bit and it is quite a bit thicker than the 1/4 aileron stock provided. At the root, it is nearly 1/2" deep while at the tip it is about 3/8" deep. My initial thought is to get some 1/2" sheeting and shape the ailerons to fit the wing. A built structure might work, but things would get tight near the wing tip. Do you have any suggestions of what to do?
Thanks,
Teo
01-03-2011, 06:40 AM
#104
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RE: Baby classic pattern planes are here!
Teo,
Hope eveybody had a good holidays
The LE issueis being remidied for the next batch, along with the tip issue.
The TE will be the same width accross from now on, to make life easier. The 1/4" ailerons should still be fine on yours, even though they are a bit smaller. The Troublemaker prototype had the same issue, and flew with no issues.
The problem was forgetting to make the wing 1/16" thinner overall to deal with the 1/16" sheeting, instead of the 1/32" sheeting. The wings were cut before the change. My appologies for that.
Don
Hope eveybody had a good holidays
The LE issueis being remidied for the next batch, along with the tip issue.
The TE will be the same width accross from now on, to make life easier. The 1/4" ailerons should still be fine on yours, even though they are a bit smaller. The Troublemaker prototype had the same issue, and flew with no issues.
The problem was forgetting to make the wing 1/16" thinner overall to deal with the 1/16" sheeting, instead of the 1/32" sheeting. The wings were cut before the change. My appologies for that.
Don
01-03-2011, 06:56 AM
#105
RE: Baby classic pattern planes are here!
Don,
Thanks for the update. I think that I will look into shaping 1/2 balsa for the ailerons so that they follow the airfoil profile set by the wing. If that turns out to be too much work, I can always go back to the 1/4 aileron stock. I like to build, so this is not a big deal at all.
Thanks,
Teo
Thanks for the update. I think that I will look into shaping 1/2 balsa for the ailerons so that they follow the airfoil profile set by the wing. If that turns out to be too much work, I can always go back to the 1/4 aileron stock. I like to build, so this is not a big deal at all.
Thanks,
Teo
01-08-2011, 11:37 AM
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RE: Baby classic pattern planes are here!
Started a build thread on the Baby Mach One... Here is the link:
Don
01-08-2011, 06:47 PM
#107
RE: Baby classic pattern planes are here!
Hello guys,
I started working on the baby Curare over the Holidays. I have also started a very abreviated build thread in one of the other discussion forums (rcgroups, just out of habit), but seeing that Don has started one here I will do the same. The plane is actually quite easy to put together; I suspect that in the end I will spend most of time fitting the radio, power pack and motor. We are in the process of buying a new house (to us) and moving, so being able to hide in the basement for an hour or two has been a great stress reliever. I will post what I have done so far in a day or two.
Teo
I started working on the baby Curare over the Holidays. I have also started a very abreviated build thread in one of the other discussion forums (rcgroups, just out of habit), but seeing that Don has started one here I will do the same. The plane is actually quite easy to put together; I suspect that in the end I will spend most of time fitting the radio, power pack and motor. We are in the process of buying a new house (to us) and moving, so being able to hide in the basement for an hour or two has been a great stress reliever. I will post what I have done so far in a day or two.
Teo
02-15-2011, 08:39 PM
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RE: Baby classic pattern planes are here!
Hope everybody is recovering from snow-magedon. Could finally get to my shop this week...
There are Baby Curare Pics on the EAC site, Thanks alot, Duff
The wing issue is solved, embarrassed to find out it was due to a typo...;(
Fixed the wing cutting files for the proper size LE and TE, and spelled the name wrong when saving. When I cut the first batch of wings, I grabbed the old file instead of the mis-spelled correct one. I found it after the first few were shipped. Thte original file is long gone now.
Hopefully I can get back to the Baby Mach One build this coming weekend. Have to catch up from being house bound by snow and ice in the mountains for a while.
Oh yeah, the baby kits are doing well enough to be able to hold the intro prices for a bit longer.
Don
www.eurekaaircraft.com
There are Baby Curare Pics on the EAC site, Thanks alot, Duff
The wing issue is solved, embarrassed to find out it was due to a typo...;(
Fixed the wing cutting files for the proper size LE and TE, and spelled the name wrong when saving. When I cut the first batch of wings, I grabbed the old file instead of the mis-spelled correct one. I found it after the first few were shipped. Thte original file is long gone now.
Hopefully I can get back to the Baby Mach One build this coming weekend. Have to catch up from being house bound by snow and ice in the mountains for a while.
Oh yeah, the baby kits are doing well enough to be able to hold the intro prices for a bit longer.
Don
www.eurekaaircraft.com
02-16-2011, 08:11 AM
#109
RE: Baby classic pattern planes are here!
Hi Don,
I see that someone beat me to it. But then again, I am a very slow builder. Nice baby Curare. Do you think that it would be possible to post some photos of the radio, battery and motor installation? I know where I would like to place the equipment, but it is always nice to see how someone else might have done.
Thanks,
Teo
I see that someone beat me to it. But then again, I am a very slow builder. Nice baby Curare. Do you think that it would be possible to post some photos of the radio, battery and motor installation? I know where I would like to place the equipment, but it is always nice to see how someone else might have done.
Thanks,
Teo
02-16-2011, 08:23 AM
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RE: Baby classic pattern planes are here!
I'll check with the builder and see if I can get some more pictures.
ORIGINAL: viva_peru
Hi Don,
I see that someone beat me to it. But then again, I am a very slow builder. Nice baby Curare. Do you think that it would be possible to post some photos of the radio, battery and motor installation? I know where I would like to place the equipment, but it is always nice to see how someone else might have done.
Thanks,
Teo
Hi Don,
I see that someone beat me to it. But then again, I am a very slow builder. Nice baby Curare. Do you think that it would be possible to post some photos of the radio, battery and motor installation? I know where I would like to place the equipment, but it is always nice to see how someone else might have done.
Thanks,
Teo
02-22-2011, 09:36 PM
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RE: Baby classic pattern planes are here!
Just got contacted by the Duff, the guy whose Baby Curare is in the above pictures. Here is what he said:
************
Hello Don:<pre wrap="">Got a chance to fly the Baby Curare. She's a winner. Very quick and responsive. Tracks straight and true. Here is the information on the set up:All up weight with 2200 maH three cell pack-42 ozs. Motor- BP Hobbies 2814-8Speed Control- EFlite 40 amp proHitec HS-82MG servos x4 (two for the ailerons, didn't use the strip setup)Prop- APC 9X9 ElectricThe system draws 33 amps at peak power (first minute of the pack). Plane has plenty of vertical at half throtle. With this setup, plane is nose heavy. I'm going to try a BP-2217-9 with a 1300 maH pack and a 25 amp speed control and see what happens. I'll let you know. Duff************Sounds like it flies great. A bit more than Iwould have installed, but what great vertical. Will be interesting to hear the report when the weight is reduced. Should fly even better, with about the same vertical due to the weight loss.Finally caught up enough from the snow days to get back to the Baby Mach One. Will go electric to do some weight experimenting, but definitely single aileron servo, and small pack to save weight. Iam all about cutting wing loading on all the planes Ifly, since Ilike flying 'slow and pretty'. I want just enough vertical to do the routines, but Imay be in the minority
As always, your milage may vary.<pre wrap="">About have the Troublemaker ready also, will try both a .10 and .15 glow on it.</pre>Don
</pre>
************
Hello Don:<pre wrap="">Got a chance to fly the Baby Curare. She's a winner. Very quick and responsive. Tracks straight and true. Here is the information on the set up:All up weight with 2200 maH three cell pack-42 ozs. Motor- BP Hobbies 2814-8Speed Control- EFlite 40 amp proHitec HS-82MG servos x4 (two for the ailerons, didn't use the strip setup)Prop- APC 9X9 ElectricThe system draws 33 amps at peak power (first minute of the pack). Plane has plenty of vertical at half throtle. With this setup, plane is nose heavy. I'm going to try a BP-2217-9 with a 1300 maH pack and a 25 amp speed control and see what happens. I'll let you know. Duff************Sounds like it flies great. A bit more than Iwould have installed, but what great vertical. Will be interesting to hear the report when the weight is reduced. Should fly even better, with about the same vertical due to the weight loss.Finally caught up enough from the snow days to get back to the Baby Mach One. Will go electric to do some weight experimenting, but definitely single aileron servo, and small pack to save weight. Iam all about cutting wing loading on all the planes Ifly, since Ilike flying 'slow and pretty'. I want just enough vertical to do the routines, but Imay be in the minority
As always, your milage may vary.<pre wrap="">About have the Troublemaker ready also, will try both a .10 and .15 glow on it.</pre>Don</pre>
02-23-2011, 05:27 PM
#112
RE: Baby classic pattern planes are here!
Hi,
Great update. Glad to know that the Curare is a good flyer. The details regarding motor, battery and servos was most useful. I am hoping to keep mine at around 32 oz. On a plane of this size I will be using the little E-flite digital servos which are roughly equivalent to the Hitec 55. I have done this on other models without any issues (Stingray and Mini Showtime) so it could be a way to save some weight. Both models weighed around 30 oz and topped out at about 55 mph. I am not expecting my Curare to be flown like a guided missle since I would like to use it to practice the intermediate turn around sequence so weight is going to be critical. We shall see.
Teo
Great update. Glad to know that the Curare is a good flyer. The details regarding motor, battery and servos was most useful. I am hoping to keep mine at around 32 oz. On a plane of this size I will be using the little E-flite digital servos which are roughly equivalent to the Hitec 55. I have done this on other models without any issues (Stingray and Mini Showtime) so it could be a way to save some weight. Both models weighed around 30 oz and topped out at about 55 mph. I am not expecting my Curare to be flown like a guided missle since I would like to use it to practice the intermediate turn around sequence so weight is going to be critical. We shall see.
Teo
03-03-2012, 10:01 AM
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RE: Baby classic pattern planes are here!
It is next on the list... Now that buldind season is winding down, I will have a little time to add new stuff..
Don @ EAC
Don @ EAC
ORIGINAL: astropuppy
Is the Baby Eyeball available yet?
Is the Baby Eyeball available yet?
03-03-2012, 07:20 PM
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RE: Baby classic pattern planes are here!
Didn't go through all the messages for a typo, but it has always been www.eurekaaircraft.com ....
Don @ EAC
Don @ EAC
ORIGINAL: SpadCat
Hi, the link to your website is not working, do you have a new ink?
Thank You,
SpadCat
Hi, the link to your website is not working, do you have a new ink?
Thank You,
SpadCat
