Twinhydro

My Feedback: (6)

Brian ..that is one tough deal thatI myself am not that far away from dealing with .Very sorry for your loss .No way to really be prepared for losing your mentor in life .Do the best you can and when you get back , settle in and bash the kit ..great aircraft ..just do it and enjoy . Condolences sent .....Tom Foley .

EscapeFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

Thank you to everyone.

Starting tomorrow, I will be back on track. I hope to show some movement.

I will start with the tail feathers. Simple construction, but fun as it is...

smacfe- would you recommend the 1/2" lower fuse mod to the Super Kaos as well? I think you were referring to your Kaos in the pics.

Brian

EscapeFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

I lied... I will get to the Kaos when I finish this project with my daughter (scroll down to see where we are at now):

[link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_9852103/tm.htm[/link]


Brian

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Brian,

I am very sorry to hear about your dad. I hope you are doing well and are hopefully being able to enjoy our hobby as good therapy.

On another note though, well done!

Congratulations on getting your daughter involved in our great hobby.

My 8 year old son has shown some restraint but my 5 year old daughter is very interested.

David.

EscapeFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

Wow! I finally have forward movement on my Super Kaos. I will be milking it for all it's worth as this will be my last build for a while. So I will be taking my sweet 'ole time.

I am curious how Joe attached the control horn to the elevator joiner. Did he braze it, or solder it? I would think solder would be too soft. Maybe I am wrong...

Brian

Here are a few pics. The "bones" of the horizontal (just to prove I am actually working on it now.)

JeffH

My Feedback: (43)

My original Kaos 60 has just a U shaped joiner and you run the pushrod to one elevator half.

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Brian,

on designs which place the elevator hinge line inside the rear end of the fuselage, you can use a music wire joiner which has a control horn (really just a piece of steel with holes in it) in the middle. The horn extends downward into the fuse so you can run the elevator pushrod inside the fuse which makes for a nice clean installation. The SK is such a design as are the CAP designs.

Those type of wire joiners used to abound as they were commonly used on CL models for either flaps or elevators. Of course, if you want to have easy access to the linkage, you can just offset the horn so that it is outside the fuse. My LHS had a bunch of MK joiner wires like this suitable for smaller (30 and under) size models so I picked them up. I had in mind using one on a 30 size CAP 21 model I have plans to build.

Of course, you can also just use a regular U shaped joiner like Jeff suggests and a regular horn on one elevator side - very conventional.

David.

EscapeFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

This is my intent, but I am hard pressed to find this. I was going to obscond with one that is in a TF P-51 Mustang kit I have. It's the only one I could find. I'd rather have the horn inside the fuse. I just liked the way Joe's looks, hence my question. I did not know that those joiner units were commercialy available that way back then.

Who carries these/or- how do I make one?

Cees has drawn a diagram of how he does his. It would work, but there is a lot of excess back there this way. I would do this if I cannot locate a commercial unit, or use the Top Flite joiner...

Again, I am making a mountain out of a mole hill, but... I know, it's a character flaw.
Brian

JeffH

My Feedback: (43)

When mine goes back together after the strip and refinish, I will be using a Y pushrod to eliminate the joiner.

stuntflyr

Hi Brian,

Good to hear you're back up to building. Just in case you thought again about using a horn joiner for the elevator;
Here is a page from Brodak Manufacturing with their C/L elevator horns.
http://www.brodak.com/shop.php?CategoryID=83

Here is Control Line Central's Tom Morris controls page on elevator horns, they have a bunch of good pushrod, ball link and stuff there too if you search around a little on the site under Tom Morris controls.
http://www.clcentral.com/products.asp?cat=61

I put one in my King Cobra so the only outboard horn is the rudder on the back end.

Chris...

EscapeFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Chris!

These ball link horns are new to me. I can't wait to try one!

Brian

EscapeFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

Any pictures????

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Brian,

another option is to simply use a piece of 1/8" music wire to join the elevators. Before the last bend in the wire is made, you slide on a Sig nose gear steering arm. You want to use a recessed bolt (the DuBro wheel collar type) to fasten the arm in the center pointing downward. You will have some girth due to the diameter of the collar and arm but if you make a recess in the stab and elevator to accommodate it, it should be no problem.

The only catch is that you must ensure that your retention mechanism is solid and permanent with thread lock and a flat spot. Loosing elevator is not quite the same as nose gear steering... [X(]

David.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

I would go with the Brodak hardware.

EscapeFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Dave.

I think I'd like to use the Brodak hardware. It seems a perfect fit for my need. This was the first I've heard of this store. I'm looking forward to using the Tim Morris Controls gear in the future as well.

Brian

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Good stuff. Because the horn is concealed, I would make two further suggestions: 1) build a small hatch into the bottom of the fuse rear to access the linkage. It could simply be a portion of the fuse including stringers (you might want to double them in height for seating purposes) that just attaches with a tongue and a screw in the tail. A piece of 1/16" ply might be the easiest way to go. 2) Use a P-P setup on the rudder to avoid cluttering the rear of the fuse with another pushrod. The elevator pushrod will be going quite far back to reach the linkage. It could be that the rear of the fuse might have to be left open (as in the King Kobra) where the linkage rotates outward for up elevator or just slightly wider to accommodate the space required by the linkage. A simple clevis might be the best way to go.

Just thinking about it some.

David.

EscapeFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

This would be good to be able to access the linkage in the future.

I've been playing with this idea too. I think it would look good as well. I've only used PP on one airplane before and I liked it very much. Hmmm... I like it!

Yikes. I don't think I want to leave it open in back I would rather keepit closed. I might still get away with a ball link. The hinge line is forward of the tail end of the fuse, just like the CAP, so I think I may have room for it. I will probably angle the horn forward 15 degrees which will help as well. Besides, I have a better mechanical advantage setting it up this way. (At least it sound good.)

Thanks for the ideas. I appreciate all of them!

Brian

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Brian,

keeping it closed is definitely the way to go if you can as in a CAP. The KK has the elevator hinge line along the tail end of the fuse so the control horn is actually outside the fuse - not the case with the SK. Depending on the extent to which the elevator hinge line is in the fuse, then you should have clearance to push the horn backward for up elevator. Keep in mind that if you angle the horn forward, you will have increasing throw differential - more up, less down. Because the SK doesn't need any fancy control surface setup, I'd stick to no differential on tail surfaces. Ailerons might call for some differential which in any case, is easy to setup in the radio - assuming you're using two servos on them. If one servo is used, then it has to be done mechanically which is easy enough with torque rods and placement of the pushrods in the appropriate off-center hole in the servo.

Also, keep in mind that the tail of the fuse may be 1/4" wide at most assuming this is the thickness of the rudder. If you use a ball link on the brodak horn, it will result in a thicker linkage which may bind against the fuse side/rear - this is why I was suggesting a clevis. It is also less prone to requiring adjustment or failure. You can use a good steel one with a locking pin (e.g., Sullivan).

Build on!

David.

stuntflyr

Brian,
Notice that some of the control line elevator horns are offset so the horn itself can be on the outside of the fuse and join the elevator halves too. I use this on some of my C/L Stunt models because they are so narrow in the back and I use the ratio adjustable type. It's easy to adjust and eliminates a hatch, fat back-end, etc. An option to think about.
I like this type of horns as they are really stout, c/l has a lot of stress and vibration not seen on r/c ships so it'll last forever. For weight, on the King Cobra I used a 3/32nd wire horn. 1/8th is massive and used on .60 to .90 c/l Stunters. Not necessary on an r/c ship this size.
Chris...

EscapeFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

Chris,

Would this look, in essence, exactly as shown on Joe's plans? (Forgive me, I have no experience with C/L at all.)

Brian

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Brian,

I concur with Chris - 1/8" is overkill for music wire. 3/32" should be ample.

I just looked at the plans and I don't think you'll have any problem using this setup. The inside width at the hinge line is 1/2" which is plenty for the horn and clevis, There is also sufficient space behind it for up elevator deflection. Of course, the more accessible alternative is to use a standard pattern forked pushrod with a clevis on each elevator half - like Jeff suggested. It's really a matter of whether you want to have the "look mom, no hands" elevator linkage or whether you prefer to have easy access to adjust your elevators independently.

The plans actually show the use of a Brodak type horn but it is offset with the horn on the left side of the fuse (see notes under horn). The idea is that you use two pushrods, one exiting the left for elevator and one the right for rudder. I would use P-P on rudder regardless of how you do the elevator. If you use the CL horn, then you'll have two rudder wires exiting the back. If you go with a forked elevator pushrod, then you'll have four exits out the back. You can use the exit locations shown on the plans although I find it helpful to draft the P-P setup on the fuse top plan with straight lines to the rudder horn to see where they cross and where they want to exit.

The 1/16" ply hatch would be a piece of cake. You just install your 1/16" balsa cross grain from the wing TE backward, brace the fuse bottom around the exit holes (I would do this regardless of hatch) and do the remainder of the fuse bottom with the hatch. Use a tongue in the front of the hatch and single little wood screw going into a hard point in the rear of the fuse. You can install a small piece of 1/8" ply notched into the bottom rear of the fuse as a retention means for the screw in the hatch. You will barely see it even when inverted and will look cool when you remove it and show the magic inside to your buddies at the field!

How's that wing coming along?

David.

EscapeFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

I have struggled with my building surfaces over the years. I can't seem to come up with the perfectly flat surface to build on that I am happy with. So before I started the wing or the fuse, I wanted to remedy this. I refuse to build with a mediocre surface again.

So-

My friend (that is helping me get my template service going) was talking to me about his hobby room in his basement. He had just recently dismantled a pool table. He told me I could have the slate from the pool table. It is in four pices, but big enough to accomplish what I need.

As soon as I get them home and on my building board, I will start my wing. Should be perfectly flat, and no warps.

Boy! That was long winded!!! (sorry)

When the build takes off, I will talk much less, and take a lot more pictures. I still hope to have it in flying order before the beginning of this flying season.

Brian.

stuntflyr

Sorry Brian,
I wrote too much info, so it looked confusing! David hit all of the high points. It does look as if the fuselage is wide enough to use the "in fuselage" horn. The offset version on the outside will allow you to have easy access.
Can't wait to see your ship as it progresses.
Chris...

EscapeFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

OOPS!!! How did this happen???

EscapeFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

After playing with the great planes wing jig, all I can say is, well... It sucks. I don't recommend it. I've used this on my 3rd plane now. I'm throwing mine away.

The reason I do not like it is: Even though you can install a spar in the bottom of the wing, it is worthless to do so because you need to support the 1/4" steel dowels, and it is elevated off the building board. The RCM jig is far better because you are still building the wing on the board. The bottom spar truley needs to be installed before the top spar, IMO.


The other reason I do not like the GP wing jig is: When you turn the wing over to start work on the other side, it cannot be supported since it is elevated off the building board. This causes a problem. Since you need to pull the wing out of the jig to ensure the spar does not warp, you no longer have the TE jigged and now one must carefully measure the centerline of every rib to ensure there is no warpage or washout/in. (I'm glad I drew the centerline on all my ribs before I started construction.

I do NOT reccomend a Great Planes wing jig.

On a straight wing, it is easy to sight down the wing to make sure the wing is straight. This method will make you want to commit suicide with a Kaos wing. A double tapered wing will look as though it has a bow in the center of the front of the wing when you do this. Then you will have to spend 2 house measuring and double checking to make sure you didn't just build a warp into your wing. (I'll give you 1 guess how I know this.) I like doubled tapered wings, but have little experience building them. A foam wing would make life a lot easier here.

Not much progress today. But I am ready to start a retract install on one wing.

'Till I get more done...

Brian