What would you build for these beasts?
12-30-2010, 06:15 PM
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What would you build for these beasts?
This Xmas I was fortunate to come by two vintage classic engines:
[ul][*] A Webra Speed 61-F ABC "Racing" (RE)[*] A Webra Speed 80-F ABC "Champion" (SE)
[/ul]
I've always wanted a RE European brute and aside from the somewhat tamer ST X61 I'm using on a Calypso on the bench, this is the only RE European engine I have available. The Webra 80-F ABC came along for the ride as it was being sold along side. This latter has massive compression and is essentially a bored out Speed 61 as the crankcase and cylinder is the same size as the 61.
So now, what remains is to decide what to build for them. Any suggestions?
David.
[ul][*] A Webra Speed 61-F ABC "Racing" (RE)[*] A Webra Speed 80-F ABC "Champion" (SE)
[/ul]
I've always wanted a RE European brute and aside from the somewhat tamer ST X61 I'm using on a Calypso on the bench, this is the only RE European engine I have available. The Webra 80-F ABC came along for the ride as it was being sold along side. This latter has massive compression and is essentially a bored out Speed 61 as the crankcase and cylinder is the same size as the 61.
So now, what remains is to decide what to build for them. Any suggestions?
David.
01-01-2011, 12:22 AM
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RE: What would you build for these beasts?
Hi,
If the Webra 61 is the LS (Long Stroke) it would fit like a glove in a Matt "Saphir 1" if you can find one:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_99.../anchor/tm.htm#
/Bo
If the Webra 61 is the LS (Long Stroke) it would fit like a glove in a Matt "Saphir 1" if you can find one:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_99.../anchor/tm.htm#
/Bo
01-01-2011, 03:08 PM
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RE: What would you build for these beasts?
Guys,
Thanks for all your excellent suggestions and happy new year!
Bo, thanks for reminding me of the good match between the Saphir and the Webra. Mine is not the long stroke version but I see no problem with using the short stroke on the model. Webra specs actually mention that power output between the two versions is identical.
Thanks also for reminding me of that thread. Since August I actually have bought a Model Tech Saphir I ARC. Given the model is readily available for me to build, I may just go with your suggestion. Besides, the Calypso with the ST X61 I'm building and the Saphir with the Webra 61R will make a nice pair.
The only question remaining is how well these un-pumped engines will perform in their inverted installation.
All other excellent suggestions may have to wait. The Speeda for the Speed 80 does sound mighty tempting. Will have to inquire with Don as to the state of his core cutting for the various fuses he has molded.
David.
Thanks for all your excellent suggestions and happy new year!
Bo, thanks for reminding me of the good match between the Saphir and the Webra. Mine is not the long stroke version but I see no problem with using the short stroke on the model. Webra specs actually mention that power output between the two versions is identical.
Thanks also for reminding me of that thread. Since August I actually have bought a Model Tech Saphir I ARC. Given the model is readily available for me to build, I may just go with your suggestion. Besides, the Calypso with the ST X61 I'm building and the Saphir with the Webra 61R will make a nice pair.
The only question remaining is how well these un-pumped engines will perform in their inverted installation.
All other excellent suggestions may have to wait. The Speeda for the Speed 80 does sound mighty tempting. Will have to inquire with Don as to the state of his core cutting for the various fuses he has molded.
David.
01-01-2011, 06:10 PM
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RE: What would you build for these beasts?
As much as I would love to see more aircraft power by the mighty webra. You might want to moth ball these wonderful engines if they are new. Seeing as how Webra went bankrupt and closed there doors last month. I am now hoarding anything webra I can get my hands on..
01-01-2011, 06:57 PM
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RE: What would you build for these beasts?
ORIGINAL: edwarda10pilot
David:
Webra Speed 61 RE in a Tiger Tail 4. You will not be disappointed.
Ed
David:
Webra Speed 61 RE in a Tiger Tail 4. You will not be disappointed.
Ed
I am enthrolled with the Tiger Tail myself...
If not, how about a Bridi XLT- being the Joe Bridi fan I am.
Brian
01-01-2011, 07:32 PM
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RE: What would you build for these beasts?
Arrows, Escapes, and yes,... a TT4 of course.
I'd love to build an MK Arrow but unfortunately I don't own a 60 size. I will build an Arrow 40 one day with a YS 45 FR & Hatori pipe.
Given Chidgey's excellent TT4 kit it sure is something to think about.
Does anyone have any documentation on the TT4? Plans, instructions, etc.
Ed, is this your excellent TT4? It looks like it is sporting the same engine! Does Ron make the glass top portion to allow for the internal pipe?
David.
I'd love to build an MK Arrow but unfortunately I don't own a 60 size. I will build an Arrow 40 one day with a YS 45 FR & Hatori pipe.
Given Chidgey's excellent TT4 kit it sure is something to think about.
Does anyone have any documentation on the TT4? Plans, instructions, etc.
Ed, is this your excellent TT4? It looks like it is sporting the same engine! Does Ron make the glass top portion to allow for the internal pipe?
David.
01-01-2011, 08:01 PM
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RE: What would you build for these beasts?
All my 60-size Peppermint Patties had a SEWebra Speed 61. If I do the link correctly, here's a photo, go to post # 40:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7663424/mpage_2/key_/tm.htm#
Cores are available from Scott (patternPilot)
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7663424/mpage_2/key_/tm.htm#
Cores are available from Scott (patternPilot)
01-01-2011, 08:17 PM
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RE: What would you build for these beasts?
Nick,
great suggestion. I actually own a 30 year old Speed 61 SE - probably the first generation since it has no holes tapped for the header or muffler. I bought a Macs strap on muffler for it but I'm not thrilled with the setup. I figured that one day I'd get someone who's handy on a mill to tap some screw holes into it. There are a couple of parts that I'm also missing for the dynamix carb on it so it has laid asleep in its bed for the last three decades. Now that Webra has folded, I'm glad that I decided to keep it all these years.
The Speed 80 shown in the photos above is much more recent in terms of production. It is also a 13x10 turner so I have to select an airframe that can handle that prop and power both in size and in clearance.
David.
great suggestion. I actually own a 30 year old Speed 61 SE - probably the first generation since it has no holes tapped for the header or muffler. I bought a Macs strap on muffler for it but I'm not thrilled with the setup. I figured that one day I'd get someone who's handy on a mill to tap some screw holes into it. There are a couple of parts that I'm also missing for the dynamix carb on it so it has laid asleep in its bed for the last three decades. Now that Webra has folded, I'm glad that I decided to keep it all these years.
The Speed 80 shown in the photos above is much more recent in terms of production. It is also a 13x10 turner so I have to select an airframe that can handle that prop and power both in size and in clearance.
David.
01-02-2011, 09:01 AM
#17
RE: What would you build for these beasts?
Maybe interesting, performance diagrams of the Speed 61 Racing (ringed) RE 1979 and the 61 Racing Long Stroke (ABC) RE 1984.
You reminded me of suggesting the Brushfire.
You reminded me of suggesting the Brushfire.
01-02-2011, 01:06 PM
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RE: What would you build for these beasts?
Yep, that are the diagrams I was thinking about. Note the longstroke 61 Racing was not intended to rev more than 13.5K.
The Arrow of Wolfgang Matt would be perfect match for this 61R short stroke - a low drag design which deserves to be flown fast. Matt´s Saphir has totally different character and asks for the long stroke powerplant, in my humble opinion.
The 80F was told to have less elaborate mass balancing of the crankshaft, conrod and piston - due to be of massively overbored design. Even the tungsten carbide counterweigths in the crankshaft web were not fully able to cure this. This engine won´t feel weel at higher rpm.
Webra closed doors? That is a shame, didn´t know that.
The Arrow of Wolfgang Matt would be perfect match for this 61R short stroke - a low drag design which deserves to be flown fast. Matt´s Saphir has totally different character and asks for the long stroke powerplant, in my humble opinion.
The 80F was told to have less elaborate mass balancing of the crankshaft, conrod and piston - due to be of massively overbored design. Even the tungsten carbide counterweigths in the crankshaft web were not fully able to cure this. This engine won´t feel weel at higher rpm.
Webra closed doors? That is a shame, didn´t know that.
01-02-2011, 01:21 PM
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RE: What would you build for these beasts?
Speed Panzer,
I see your point. In that case, I will follow your advice and plan on using a long stroke engine in the Saphir. I do have a pumped YS that could serve well there.
Back to the Webra's in question then, it seems like an upright install for the Speed 61R might be a better option. Good suggestions so far:
[ul][*] Arrow[*] Bootlegger[*] Tiger Tail 4[*] EU-1A (not sure if this design might call for a LS too and perhaps an 80 to 100 2 stroke)[*] Escape (I prefer the Escape to the XLT and have a kit)
[/ul]
It also sounds like the 80 needs to turn a 13x10. Are there any "mystery" designs that could use that displacement and prop to good effect? I've even thought of a custom sized Tipo (but don't want to cut more Tipo cores) or something even as sporty as a large Side Pocket. Neither convinces me though. I may just have to use it in the 90 size CAP 21 project although I was planning on electric for those scale designs - all around simpler in cowled applications. Besides, these engines need to be seen!
David.
I see your point. In that case, I will follow your advice and plan on using a long stroke engine in the Saphir. I do have a pumped YS that could serve well there.
Back to the Webra's in question then, it seems like an upright install for the Speed 61R might be a better option. Good suggestions so far:
[ul][*] Arrow[*] Bootlegger[*] Tiger Tail 4[*] EU-1A (not sure if this design might call for a LS too and perhaps an 80 to 100 2 stroke)[*] Escape (I prefer the Escape to the XLT and have a kit)
[/ul]
It also sounds like the 80 needs to turn a 13x10. Are there any "mystery" designs that could use that displacement and prop to good effect? I've even thought of a custom sized Tipo (but don't want to cut more Tipo cores) or something even as sporty as a large Side Pocket. Neither convinces me though. I may just have to use it in the 90 size CAP 21 project although I was planning on electric for those scale designs - all around simpler in cowled applications. Besides, these engines need to be seen!
David.
01-02-2011, 02:14 PM
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RE: What would you build for these beasts?
Just for completeness, both Brushfire and EU-1 have been designed 1978 when short-strokes reigned. The EU-1 article mentions a Rossi, which is more of a screamer than the Webra. You might be better off with the Webra and maybe EU-1A and surely Brushfire should be possible. They have this additional slow-flying ability, but a Matt design might be more interesting...
Expert's opinion on that?
Expert's opinion on that?
